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RELIGION AND THE AFTER-LIFE
Posts
Kindredz
7
Kindredz
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Closeauthor=ubermax
It also couldn't have been made possible without Christians, Muslims, Jews and a host of other religious people. Perhaps there's a message of tolerance and equality in there.
I knew my statement would not be properly understood...but it needed to be said, anyway. I'm not one to waste time helping people see the proper meaning of things but one day you'll get it...hopefully.
Kindredz
7
author=rcholbertauthor=IllustriousI cringed when I first saw the topic but it hasn't made me want to ban anyone yet.
I always thought religious and political topics were taboo on most forums, but I guess everyone is lax on this one.
Give it time. :-\
Kindredz
7
author=EnderX
@Kindredz:
Yes, atheists have done many remarkable things in the development of technology. However, I would submit that the very underlying worldview of modern science stems from the Judeo-Christian outlook: A world, which was created by a single deity instead of the playground of multiple spirits, and therefore inherently consistent, and knowable because of this.
That statement makes no sense. Please elaborate.
ubermax
0
author=Kindredzauthor=ubermaxI knew my statement would not be properly understood...but it needed to be said, anyway. I'm not one to waste time helping people see the proper meaning of things but one day you'll get it...hopefully.
It also couldn't have been made possible without Christians, Muslims, Jews and a host of other religious people. Perhaps there's a message of tolerance and equality in there.
To posit an opinion without elaborating, and then claim your opposition is simply being ignorant for disagreeing with you is a rather convenient way to avoid backing up your argument. It's also what certain religious types do to non-believers.
Additionally, I'm pretty sure I understood your stance quite clearly. What was it about mine that was unclear? I don't believe as others do, but I accept that the world in which we now live we created together, for better or worse. Everyone, from believers to non-believers, had a hand in it.
Also, I neglected to mention this before, but I noticed that you lumped the entirety of the scientific community in with non-believers. Has it not occurred to you that there might be scientists with religious beliefs? Do you know for a fact that all of your modern technology was created by atheists?
Shinan
4314
author=KindredzIt seems a lot of historians believe that the reasone the western and muslim world had so much scientific innovation was because of monotheism. It seems that the belief that there is one god that has created a world with set rules helps with... scientific procedure. Compare to polytheistic worldviews where the world can change in a moment's notice because gods suddenly change the rules.author=EnderXThat statement makes no sense. Please elaborate.
@Kindredz:
Yes, atheists have done many remarkable things in the development of technology. However, I would submit that the very underlying worldview of modern science stems from the Judeo-Christian outlook: A world, which was created by a single deity instead of the playground of multiple spirits, and therefore inherently consistent, and knowable because of this.
I'm not entirely sure on the specifics but that seems to be the basics of it. Monotheism is better for scientific progress than polytheism.
I don't know how true it is. There's probably a bunch of other factors as well.
the islamic view on science (basically science and nature is integral to the very nature of Allah and as such the pursuit of science is faith) probably had something to do with scientific advances in the muslim world and the development of modern scientific method
Shinan
4314
And monotheism helps with that. If you had polytheism with a god of science and a god of not-quite-science then when testing stuff scientifically any abnormal results could be attributed to the god of not-quite-science messing up results.
Blitzen
3253
aristotle thought that the death of the body was the death of the soul. the character of Captain Jean Luc Picard, of the popular Star Trek: The Next Generation television series, thought that we existed in reality in ways which we had yet come to understand, and the metamorphosis of death was a part of this (i can't remember what episode though but it was pretty heady.
when I think of death, I usually consider it in either context, but i've suspended judgement on the matter.
when I think of death, I usually consider it in either context, but i've suspended judgement on the matter.
Not sure why people think there is an afterlife or even a soul for that matter. If a soul is created upon birth then it makes sense that it is destroyed upon death.
Emanzi
168
I'm also a Christian but I believe more in spirituality than in religion, religion to me is like a set of rules which are easy to get to caught up on and lose their entire essence, for instance praying. To me prayer is supposed to be a still moment when you are in touch with the universe ( which to me is our creator or at least the womb we live in at the moment ) however most times people pray for selfish things e.g an I-Pad2 or for that dream job/car/e.t.c completely forsaking prayers spiritual purpose, getting in touch with your inner self/soul. To me I find meditation more helpful to relax and calm/still the chaos and the "mental-noise" we face each day after all nothing in this world can truly offer you peace and freedom of mind.
I'm pretty sure another reality and perhaps after-life exists, this world we live in is not what it seems to be from a scientific standpoint because as humans we have an understanding on the way things are or should be but we don't really know. With our human minds and our human eyes and our human soul we are only limited to this perception we know as reality. Its impossible to use the mind to understand and specify things beyond our reality simply because its impossible to comprehend.
Theirs proof, didn't you ever hear about the hippie movement in the mid to late 60's? LSD showed them this uncharted reality, this un-discovered consciousness that has always been here with us, waiting for someone to open their eyes, to open their minds and thus to open their souls.
Life as we know it is just like a river we flow on, each river leads back to the ocean and in the ocean is the source, when we return maybe we will know, but as for now you can only row on by making choices on where to row and cast your sail.
Edit:
Also some of the best inventions/technology e.t.c utilize nature, to me however developed man gets nature will always be the supreme in technological advancements, the laws of nature, the biological life systems, the universe, space and time, their so incredibly technologically advanced, so perfect and flawless, our human mind alone is another astonishing tool ( when its put to good use ) and as humans we are only capable, if we want to truly move forward, to utilize these cosmic and magnificent tools instead of fighting them. We will only end up destroying our selves and our planet otherwise.
Waking life said so far we're only at the "super-chimpanzee level", we still have wars, we still pollute the earth, things like this are incredibly uncivilized and moronic, sure we have the latest gizmo's and gadgets but are they not just modern day tools we use only to meet an end, "crack open the nut" and neglect everything else?
In a way religion is a tool...I'm not too sure but unless used wisely it wont help with getting to some sort of heaven if you neglect god (the universe) itself.
I'm pretty sure another reality and perhaps after-life exists, this world we live in is not what it seems to be from a scientific standpoint because as humans we have an understanding on the way things are or should be but we don't really know. With our human minds and our human eyes and our human soul we are only limited to this perception we know as reality. Its impossible to use the mind to understand and specify things beyond our reality simply because its impossible to comprehend.
Theirs proof, didn't you ever hear about the hippie movement in the mid to late 60's? LSD showed them this uncharted reality, this un-discovered consciousness that has always been here with us, waiting for someone to open their eyes, to open their minds and thus to open their souls.
Life as we know it is just like a river we flow on, each river leads back to the ocean and in the ocean is the source, when we return maybe we will know, but as for now you can only row on by making choices on where to row and cast your sail.
Edit:
Also some of the best inventions/technology e.t.c utilize nature, to me however developed man gets nature will always be the supreme in technological advancements, the laws of nature, the biological life systems, the universe, space and time, their so incredibly technologically advanced, so perfect and flawless, our human mind alone is another astonishing tool ( when its put to good use ) and as humans we are only capable, if we want to truly move forward, to utilize these cosmic and magnificent tools instead of fighting them. We will only end up destroying our selves and our planet otherwise.
Waking life said so far we're only at the "super-chimpanzee level", we still have wars, we still pollute the earth, things like this are incredibly uncivilized and moronic, sure we have the latest gizmo's and gadgets but are they not just modern day tools we use only to meet an end, "crack open the nut" and neglect everything else?
In a way religion is a tool...I'm not too sure but unless used wisely it wont help with getting to some sort of heaven if you neglect god (the universe) itself.
Kindredz
7
author=Shinanauthor=KindredzIt seems a lot of historians believe that the reasone the western and muslim world had so much scientific innovation was because of monotheism. It seems that the belief that there is one god that has created a world with set rules helps with... scientific procedure. Compare to polytheistic worldviews where the world can change in a moment's notice because gods suddenly change the rules.author=EnderXThat statement makes no sense. Please elaborate.
@Kindredz:
Yes, atheists have done many remarkable things in the development of technology. However, I would submit that the very underlying worldview of modern science stems from the Judeo-Christian outlook: A world, which was created by a single deity instead of the playground of multiple spirits, and therefore inherently consistent, and knowable because of this.
I'm not entirely sure on the specifics but that seems to be the basics of it. Monotheism is better for scientific progress than polytheism.
I don't know how true it is. There's probably a bunch of other factors as well.
That's hilarious.
author=ubermaxauthor=KindredzTo posit an opinion without elaborating, and then claim your opposition is simply being ignorant for disagreeing with you is a rather convenient way to avoid backing up your argument. It's also what certain religious types do to non-believers.author=ubermaxI knew my statement would not be properly understood...but it needed to be said, anyway. I'm not one to waste time helping people see the proper meaning of things but one day you'll get it...hopefully.
It also couldn't have been made possible without Christians, Muslims, Jews and a host of other religious people. Perhaps there's a message of tolerance and equality in there.
Additionally, I'm pretty sure I understood your stance quite clearly. What was it about mine that was unclear? I don't believe as others do, but I accept that the world in which we now live we created together, for better or worse. Everyone, from believers to non-believers, had a hand in it.
Also, I neglected to mention this before, but I noticed that you lumped the entirety of the scientific community in with non-believers. Has it not occurred to you that there might be scientists with religious beliefs? Do you know for a fact that all of your modern technology was created by atheists?
You still don't get it. You're right about one thing, though: I'm non-confrontational, especially when it comes to belief systems. I don't care for wasting time on things, people, or ideas that don't matter to me so...there you go. I much prefer to let people hang themselves with their own foolishness. I may throw out some bait every once in a while but that's it.
ubermax
0
@Kindredz: then, being non-confrontational, you might reconsider the next time you choose to post an ill defined opinion in a forum where it may be challenged. I cannot be held responsible for any perceived ignorance on my part. If you refuse to clarify your own position, you have only yourself to blame.
No, I don't think any sort of afterlife exists.
tbh the concept of "Life" is a human invention (and a pretty ill-defined one at that!). Furthermore, when most people imagine passing on to some other magical dimension, they usually imagine it as their consciousness that crosses over, which is kind of funny because consciousness is even more ill defined than life and consciousness is a learned behaviour (and not some innate state of being).
In this universe governed by its rules, what we call life arising was inevitable.
As for religions, everything about their mythos is human imagination and invention. I wouldn't put much stock into what their adherents have imagined about the afterlife over the past few millenia.
tbh the concept of "Life" is a human invention (and a pretty ill-defined one at that!). Furthermore, when most people imagine passing on to some other magical dimension, they usually imagine it as their consciousness that crosses over, which is kind of funny because consciousness is even more ill defined than life and consciousness is a learned behaviour (and not some innate state of being).
In this universe governed by its rules, what we call life arising was inevitable.
As for religions, everything about their mythos is human imagination and invention. I wouldn't put much stock into what their adherents have imagined about the afterlife over the past few millenia.
S. F. LaValle
1069
author=ubermax
@Kindredz: then, being non-confrontational, you might reconsider the next time you choose to post an ill defined opinion in a forum where it may be challenged. I cannot be held responsible for any perceived ignorance on my part. If you refuse to clarify your own position, you have only yourself to blame.
Correct. And you're still baiting with your last response, KindredZ. I can't force you to stop replying, even as a mod, but since you've had your say it would be fair to move along and let others have theirs.
Emanzi
168
Kindredz please don't get this locked up! I'm sure most of us are enjoying this discussion, if you have something against religion its O.K just don't troll about it.
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Don't you think it would be really disappointing, meaningless and shallow if life is just some spontaneous mistake? Science has already proven that almost everything has a purpose, a reason why. Its just that we don't know yet.
Life and Death might not have a definite meaning but Its kind of empty to say this is it, after our life theirs nothing more, its just as empty as saying aliens don't exist and we are the only living things in the universe, I mean the universe is too diverse, too huge for us and for life to be some kind of mistake or something.
Maybe religion is just human invention but It could be about something historical that shaped the world and life as we know it forever. Maybe we where created by aliens and began to worship them ( humans compared to animals are already very different in almost everything ). Maybe this is where religion began. Its not possible for the entire world to just "make it up", I'll understand if religion is a misinterpretation of some historical event ( e.g like the birth and death of Jesus e.t.c ) but I'm pretty sure something in religion is at least remotely true...I guess its debatable...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't you think it would be really disappointing, meaningless and shallow if life is just some spontaneous mistake? Science has already proven that almost everything has a purpose, a reason why. Its just that we don't know yet.
Life and Death might not have a definite meaning but Its kind of empty to say this is it, after our life theirs nothing more, its just as empty as saying aliens don't exist and we are the only living things in the universe, I mean the universe is too diverse, too huge for us and for life to be some kind of mistake or something.
Maybe religion is just human invention but It could be about something historical that shaped the world and life as we know it forever. Maybe we where created by aliens and began to worship them ( humans compared to animals are already very different in almost everything ). Maybe this is where religion began. Its not possible for the entire world to just "make it up", I'll understand if religion is a misinterpretation of some historical event ( e.g like the birth and death of Jesus e.t.c ) but I'm pretty sure something in religion is at least remotely true...I guess its debatable...
