NOTHING IS PERFECT

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Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
Okay, just as a fair warning, this topic will be much less verbose and consequently less well written than the previous, similar topic I made ("The Customer Is Always Right") but that doesn't make it less important.

author=WIP
No game on this site should have a 5/5.


I think this is a moronic, destructive, and poisonous attitude but there it is RIGHT FROM THE MOUTH OF OUR FORMER FEARLESS LEADER so obviously it is a pretty sizable part of our shared community culture. In fact, I've seen several prominent figures agree with WIP on this point, while others (including anyone who has ever given a 5 Star review to anything) prominently disagree? I think this is an important issue, and even if my feelings about it are obvious (WIP is wrong) that doesn't mean that it's necessarily an obvious question.

Should games on RMN never receive a perfect rating? Yes? No?

If you agree with this sentiment, why?

If you don't agree with this sentiment, why?

Please discuss!
If no game is 5/5, there shouldn't be a 5/5 score.

If there is a 5/5 score, it should be awarded to the best gameS. Not the best game (singular) while all the others are less. Like many people say, 5/5 does not equal perfection. It just means "oh, this is so good I can forgive all of its flaws". I've given 5/5 more than once here.
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3229
Isn't this another ratings-related problem? (I mean in the vein of WHAT IS AVERAGE and all that)
i get the feeling this quote is out of context and or very very very old. in any case maybe give the link as to where it's from? idk just kind of seems weird for him to say that since ths system is built to allow 5/5.

on the subject: if you think the game is fantastic and the flaws don't bother you at all then it's fine to give it a 5. Most people see that as giving a 4.5 just to save their perceived reviewer rep. HOWEVER, it's statistically impossible to get 5/5 average from 10 different reviews, because people in general aren't like that (high expectations, idea that the lower you rate the game compared to others makes you have higher standards, etc.). I think that might be WIP's idea behind that quote.
I don't think that's what WIP meant. Some people may say no game here deserves 5/5 because:

- 5/5 is perfection, and there's no such thing as perfection.
- RMN games suck.
- RMN games are good, but compared to "better" games, they're far from 5/5.
- Jealousy.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
author=Darken
i get the feeling this quote is out of context and or very very very old. in any case maybe give the link as to where it's from? idk just kind of seems weird for him to say that since ths system is built to allow 5/5.

There literally is no context. It is the entirety of his post.

It is two years and a little less than three months old. If WIP has changed his mind in those 27 months, only he can tell us.

Edit:
Proof this is still a relevant issue.
No game here should have 0/5 either because the fact that something is playable/watching without crashing or without just being a black screen already deserves 1,5 points.

- RMN games suck.
Wasn't it 2k3 games only? -,-
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I can say that no game I've played deserves a 5/5. But that's neither here nor there. I haven't played many of the "really good" RM games, and the few times I did try one, I got bored and quit anyway.

It depends how much you think 5 points is worth. I mean, in general, I think a lot of people use more or less the same scale for amateur games as they do for professional games - so if a game gets a 5/5, that doesn't mean it's in the top 5% of RM games, it means that it would get a 5/5 from real gaming magazines/sites/whatever.

Now, personally, I think I probably subconsciously adjust my review scores to "relative" scores, scoring them as RM games rather than as games. Because otherwise I kind of imagine that most of our games would be 0 stars. We have lots and lots of games that are worse than Superman 64. But I can totally see where they're coming from too. It's a bit pointless and fairly confusing to invent a new scale when the game industry already has a working one, right?

I can see both sides. They're just arbitrary numbers, after all. They can mean whatever you want. The only real problem is that people can't agree on what they mean.
While perfection doesn't exist, a 5/5 score does. A 5/5 score does not equal perfection, for me it equals a game that, not only did you thoroughly enjoy, but that you would happily play again and even recommend to friends and family.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21781
For me, a five-star review means that the reviewer thought the game was, as a whole, excellent. And I think therein lies the crux of the problem. People have different definitions of what a five-star review means. Some people are like me, and think that a five-star review means "excellent". Others think that a five-star review means "perfect" perhaps not quite understanding the concept of "opinion". If things were standardized, I don't think there would be this problem. Then again, isn't this an issue this thread tried to raise, but fail?
Personally, if I thought a game deserves a 4,8 rating, I would round it up to five stars. If the scale instead was from 1 to 100, then I would have demanded a practically perfect game for a 100 rating. However, with the system RMN uses, I can imagine given a game a 5 star rating.

That said, I am rather stingy with giving out high scores. A game has to entertain me from practically the start to the end for a five star rating. I will not let minutes of boredom here and there dock half a star, but battles that are pure attack and heal spam, or poor writing, will kill the chance for a five star rating.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
Now, personally, I think I probably subconsciously adjust my review scores to "relative" scores, scoring them as RM games rather than as games. Because otherwise I kind of imagine that most of our games would be 0 stars. We have lots and lots of games that are worse than Superman 64. But I can totally see where they're coming from too. It's a bit pointless and fairly confusing to invent a new scale when the game industry already has a working one, right?

I don't think that RM games are innately worse than "real" games--they are often better. But that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish!

Edit:

Then again, isn't this an issue this thread tried to raise, but fail?

I thought the issue that thread tried to raise was apocalyptic shitstorm (joking).

Seriously, this thread is a bit tighter, more focused, and less ambitious. Sort of a simple yes or no question.
DE
*click to edit*
1313
From a purely subjective standpoint there do exist games (commercial or amateur), books, and movies I'd give a perfect score. There are actually quite a lot of these. Saying that nothing ever deserves a perfect rating makes you look like a pretentious ass.

Here are the RM games I'd rate 5/5 (and feel free to disagree, I don't give a rat's ass): Alter AILA Genesis, Eldritch, Romancing Walker, Tyrant God Saga.
Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18257
I think it is definitely possible for a game to be worthy of a 5/5. I've played a few games that came close.
Adon237
if i had an allowance, i would give it to rmn
1743
author=Ben_Random
Never give a game 5 stars.

This must be poisonous also. Though some games do deserve that 5/5.
Only those super rare amazing games.
5/5 games should be paid for. Heck even $1.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
author=DE
Here are the RM games I'd rate 5/5 (and feel free to disagree, I don't give a rat's ass): Alter AILA Genesis, Eldritch, Romancing Walker, Tyrant God Saga.

Eldritch isn't even close to perfect, and is not even as good as To Arms! I know that no one's opinion is any more valid than anyone else's, but if there were to be one super-opinion on this issue, it would probably be mine, as I made both games. (Then again it's a common enough theory that creators are terrible judges of their own work, so who knows.)

Of course, obviously I'm flattered that you (or anyone) like(s) it so much. Maybe it was a mistake not having it on RMN this entire time.


***

Anyway, we all seem to be in agreement that games can and should be rated 5/5. I'm waiting for those with the opposing viewpoint to make themselves heard, as I've certainly seen the opinion expressed often and by many that nothing should ever get a 5/5.

EDIT:

The closest I've come.
"No game on this site should have a 5/5." = He may think currently there are no 5/5 games on this site. Not worth his 5/5 stars, anyway.

"Never give a game 5 stars." = Likely has a stick up his ass a disdainful view of RPG Maker games in general.

tl;dr version: no, I don't agree. Then again I haven't been here for very long, so I may slowly descend into cynicism in the coming months, and never reward a game with a 5/5.
Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18257
author=Crysta
tl;dr version: no, I don't agree. Then again I haven't been here for very long, so I may slowly descend into cynicism in the coming months, and never reward a game with a 5/5.


This is pretty much what happened to me!
I say yes, because people work on the games as hard as they can, and though they never are perfect, they still deserve something for the effort, if you know they didn't work on it at all though, then they shouldn't for at least that game. It's the reason of chance I call it. Why? Because there should be a reason for the chance you get the grade, you worked hard. : D
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