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LONDON RIOTS
Posts
Dyhalto
7536
Dyhalto
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CloseTimeline of what's happening : University sends student bill. Student applies for student loan. Government pays University tuition fee up-front. Student goes to University. Student graduates, then slowly pays it off over the course of his lifetime.
Sounds good in theory. The problem lies in the practise.
The student doesn't directly feel the cost of tuition. The "tax-like" repayment scheme? Who gives a crap. That doesn't even start until years into the future. And we all know government doesn't care about spending costs either. That's why government contracts are so sought after. As a result, the University is free to jack up rates as high as they like.
If there was no student loan system, or just a minimal loan system that resembled a bank loan, tuition fees would come down. Instead, you pay $30,000 to draw fruit for 3 years and then get a worthless piece of paper saying "This dude is an artist" except in more sophisticated language with a font you can't download and bitchin' italics. And now you owe someone $30,000 plus interest.
I'm all for the Right to an Education, but only until grade 12. Post-secondary should be left to the market.
Sounds good in theory. The problem lies in the practise.
The student doesn't directly feel the cost of tuition. The "tax-like" repayment scheme? Who gives a crap. That doesn't even start until years into the future. And we all know government doesn't care about spending costs either. That's why government contracts are so sought after. As a result, the University is free to jack up rates as high as they like.
If there was no student loan system, or just a minimal loan system that resembled a bank loan, tuition fees would come down. Instead, you pay $30,000 to draw fruit for 3 years and then get a worthless piece of paper saying "This dude is an artist" except in more sophisticated language with a font you can't download and bitchin' italics. And now you owe someone $30,000 plus interest.
I'm all for the Right to an Education, but only until grade 12. Post-secondary should be left to the market.
Instead, you pay $30,000 to draw fruit for 3 years and then get a worthless piece of paper saying "This dude is an artist" except in more sophisticated language with a font you can't download and bitchin' italics.
You have just made my morning
Exepting selling candy bars and soap, nothing should be left to the market, especially NOT education.
The rioters are using social media to pick places to loot and steal from. Shops and markets are not collateral damage, they are the MAIN target.
Holy shit that's fucking fascinating. I love the idea of this. SmartMobs. iMobs. It is so achingly post-cyberpunk.
You realize you HAVE to put that in SLRG, riot F-G?
Dyhalto
7536
author=ThiamorNot all education is worthless. As mentioned before, practical or licensed skills like plumbing or crane operation will always be useful.
It isn't useless if the places you want to go to accepts it with no other exceptions, now is it?
But for an artist, those 3 years of prescribed education are probably better spent building a viable portfolio. For a local example, Archeia_Nessiah is more likely to get a visual arts job than some guy with a diploma and the same drawings/paintings everybody else in his class has.
author=chanaAnything competitive should be left to the market. Monopolies should not exist, ever.
Exepting selling candy bars and soap, nothing should be left to the market, especially NOT education.
There's nothing wrong with public education. It's more of a social obligation than a competitive enterprise. What's wrong is using public funds to subsidize private education. You may notice that through grades 1-12, you have the option of free public education or expensive private. But for post-secondary, you only have expensive private with the public purse unconditionally backstopping whatever they charge.
"What's wrong is using public funds to subsidize private education."There I agree, the US are really bad for that, especially considering the poorer you are the worst universities you get into. Post-secondary education neither is a competitive enterprise and should be entirely public and free.
Dyhalto
7536
Before you make a statement like "the poorer you are the worst universities you get into", keep in mind that America's most successful businessmen actually dropped out of school at some point.
Post-secondary isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Post-secondary isn't all it's cracked up to be.
As well as going to college doesn't imply being rich, you don't go to college for that, but to become sufficiently competent in a field (if possible you're interested in) to get a job, but also just to learn and develop your intellect.
ZPE
1562
author=Fallen-Griever
Seriously, people need to stop raging about stuff without looking into the facts. It's not like the Student Loans Company are going to come knocking on your door for money, because they're not allowed to do that. That's just not how it works. It isn't like America were a family has to save up or get a loan from an actual bank or something. The SLC is a government-run agency, they aren't a bank.
I was overpaid a year ago in a grant I thought I was meant to be getting (by SLC) but apparently not. I was sent a letter brandishing a red warning saying that I had to repay everything back straight away. After trying to find out how this was possible, the LEA simply said it was a mistake made by the SLC. I called them up and tried to negotiate a long-term pay-back but the man on the phone was very aggressive and insisted that I pay everything back at once. I couldn't as the amount was huge, thankfully I had my dad to turn to and borrowed off him for the time being. Waiting on the phone for over half an hour per call wasn't fun either.
My younger brother applied through SLC and it was highlighted in the press about long-delayed payments. The online system back in the summer 2010 was a shamble but they seem to have got their act together after two of their bosses were forced to leave.
I'm not ungrateful for an avenue to go to higher education for low-income families but raising tuition fees to keep people in debt for longer is just wrong IMO.
However linking this to the riots is silly, that I thought would be obvious to people but apparently not.
Dyhalto, you're treading on dangerous ground spreading your non-communist/anarchist ideals... this is the Internet, and a gaming site.
(Hopefully you've picked up on the sarcasm as I commend you for having and stating a non-communist opinion and leaving yourself open to red retribution.)
One point you made CANNOT be argued. Post-secondary is massively overrated, and in America, a wide swath of people, some of whom actually matter, are starting to realize this.
As for the rioters, it is obviously the result of a lack of discipline, and a growing and growing expectation for free, economically unsustainable stuff from the government. Spare the rod, spoil the child + give a man a fish, feed him for a day = an entire generation of chavs/thugs who feel they can spread their idiocy with impunity. It is refreshing to see the peaceful anti-rioters, however, I think they should have instead been clad in kevlar vests, tear gas, and rubber bullets.
(Hopefully you've picked up on the sarcasm as I commend you for having and stating a non-communist opinion and leaving yourself open to red retribution.)
One point you made CANNOT be argued. Post-secondary is massively overrated, and in America, a wide swath of people, some of whom actually matter, are starting to realize this.
As for the rioters, it is obviously the result of a lack of discipline, and a growing and growing expectation for free, economically unsustainable stuff from the government. Spare the rod, spoil the child + give a man a fish, feed him for a day = an entire generation of chavs/thugs who feel they can spread their idiocy with impunity. It is refreshing to see the peaceful anti-rioters, however, I think they should have instead been clad in kevlar vests, tear gas, and rubber bullets.
If I'm supposed to be the communist here, there's an error,it's more based on values and in the end efficiency : a country with a poorly educated youth will not be up to the challenges of the future. Of course not every one is going to be in scientific research, but if every one had that level of education (i'm exaggerating, of couse), and work as a plumber or construction worker nonetheless, I really beleive not only the individual but the country itself would enormously benefit from it. Business men(women) are a peculiar race (and I know the question having a close relative in that situation), the successful ones are normally extremely intelligent AND drop outs (or almost!)
It all depends on the goals you're aiming at : your immediate enrichment or to have a richer life and the capacity to advance as the world transforms (+ enrichment, why not!).
Edit : of course if the colleges are worthless, than there's no point in going there, I know nothing of the quality of American colleges in general(and not just the few best.)
It all depends on the goals you're aiming at : your immediate enrichment or to have a richer life and the capacity to advance as the world transforms (+ enrichment, why not!).
Edit : of course if the colleges are worthless, than there's no point in going there, I know nothing of the quality of American colleges in general(and not just the few best.)
"Stupid kids, it's like "Fuck were bored, let's trash the place, we can do what we want".
If this is not a joke, I have a very difficult time beleiving kids like this exist.
If this is not a joke, I have a very difficult time beleiving kids like this exist.
Brent
0
...
What I'm finding amusing about all of this is that in the UK, after only a couple of days of the riots breaking out, over 100 people have been arrested and punished; whereas for the Vancouver riots, that has now been over 2 months ago since they happened, no charges have been laid even with all the evidence floating out there for the police to use...still nothing.
Jesus...I don’t know what to think anymore…
What I'm finding amusing about all of this is that in the UK, after only a couple of days of the riots breaking out, over 100 people have been arrested and punished; whereas for the Vancouver riots, that has now been over 2 months ago since they happened, no charges have been laid even with all the evidence floating out there for the police to use...still nothing.
Jesus...I don’t know what to think anymore…
What I mean by useless American post-secondary education is:
You graduate from High School at age 18. You don't know what to do with yourself, so you borrow $50,000 to go party for 4 years at a state university, graduate with a liberal arts degree, and still have no idea what to do with yourself, move back home with mom and dad, and get the exact same shitty job you could have gotten at age 18, except back then you didn't owe $50,000 dollars in student loans.
This is a rather gloomy example, and not what happened to me (well somewhat... I did move back in with dad for a short while to get some money saved up) but it's not all uncommon.
You graduate from High School at age 18. You don't know what to do with yourself, so you borrow $50,000 to go party for 4 years at a state university, graduate with a liberal arts degree, and still have no idea what to do with yourself, move back home with mom and dad, and get the exact same shitty job you could have gotten at age 18, except back then you didn't owe $50,000 dollars in student loans.
This is a rather gloomy example, and not what happened to me (well somewhat... I did move back in with dad for a short while to get some money saved up) but it's not all uncommon.
