LONDON RIOTS

author=Fallen-Griever
Our system enables kids to specialise for free, before university, so that they can see if they're going to like what they're planning to do at university. This helps prevent people wasting their time at university (not exactly fool-proof, some people still have more money than sense). That's why I think it is a better system...

The early specialism, IMO, is the biggest problem with the British system. How are you really supposed to discern what university course you'll like without trying university classes out first?

At least the US offers greater flexibility within universities. You can (AFAIK) take whatever classes you want once you enrol, and you don't even have to declare majors until, what, the end of 2nd year?

Feel my jealousy

author=Fallen-Griever
I was able to take a fairly wide range of courses whilst doing my degree. For example, I was doing a class on the history of science in Nazi Germany at one point (I "majored" in Chemistry). You have to do x number of core classes depending on the course you're doing, but you do still have some flexibility at most universities.

I don't think it's quite the same thing. In the US you apply to universities, while in the UK you apply to degree courses, with limited to zero opportunities for changing your "major" during your time at university.

I haven't seen that much flexibility in terms of electives either apart from one humanities/language module (out of 10) in the 3rd and 4th years but maybe I've just been unlucky in terms of universities. (would have enrolled at Manchester if I didn't live here outside term-time. True story.)

author=Fallen-Griever
I guess if you don't want any more technological or medicinal developments then academia isn't something you'd consider to be "productive"

Advancements as in electricity, flying machines and penicillin? Products of free market capitalism?
Or did you mean liquid band-aid and Gatorade?
In all fairness, universities have certainly accomplished some great things, and having the students do active research helps keep them current with the times.
But there's a problem with letting academia have a stranglehold on acceptable progress. University science departments become institutionalised and eventually the old saying applies : Science advances one funeral at a time.
Also, many large companies have Research & Development departments that do the same thing, but they don't require me to pay higher tuition.
Lastly, many advances have come from basements and garages.

author=Fallen-Griever
are you really that stupid?

What, are you getting mad because you're consistently being wrong and I'm pointing it out? :(

Good catch on the penicillin. I forget where I got my info way back in the day. Better do better due diligence next time =\
But flight is something that was a concerted effort among many, not a handful of scientists conducting experiments, one at a time. And none of them were taking my ancestor's money to do it (which is what this discussion is about).

You're wrong about private vs public R&D though. In public R&D, a subsidized community builds up around it. You may get a growth spurt at the beginning, but eventually the old scientists who just don't have "it" anymore will stop contributing and may actually interfere. After all, nobody wants to see their life's work discredited, and half of scientific progress is disproving old theories.
Public R&D also has the possibility to become politically charged. Global warming and Climategate, for example.
In private R&D, the motive is to come up with something the competition doesn't have so you can make money. If you invent something awesome, you get to enjoy a patent on it for a few years, then it enters public domain. Everybody wins. If you invent a piece of crap that breaks all the time, you lose and I didn't have to pay for your fuckup.

"Profit" and "Money" should not be bad words.
When you go to the market with your goods, you want to accomplish a goal : Exchange your goods for something you want.
Let's say you're a dentist and so your goods are your services. Today, you want food. What happens when you can't find a farmer/fisherman/supermarket-cashier with teeth issues? You'll have to settle for the next best thing : Something that will be easier to trade later on. In most cultures this has been gold, but salt, rice and shells have been used. These obtain the status of "money" because people are willing to trade it around to buy and sell what they need.
If you see the connection, you'll see that money is just a physical substitute for produced goods. There's nothing inherently wrong with lots of money. It just means you worked really hard or had something so awesome, everybody wanted it.
If you want to get into central banks, fractional reserve lending, financialisation, and speculation, that's a whole different topic I don't think anybody wants to get into today =x

The TL;DR - Money is a tool that lets us trade more easily. It's not out to get you.

author=Dyhalto
The TL;DR - Money is a tool that lets us trade more easily. It's not out to get you.

+1

humans are the only bad thing in this world

I think good old fashioned altruism shouldn't be kicked out of the picture, though.

A world where the idea of doing something and getting nothing in return is scoffed at is not a world I want to live in. Kindness, fellowship, and concern for your fellow man is a necessary and vital part of humanity and civilization in general.

I love gettin' dat cash and dolla dolla bills ya'll as much as the next guy, but it can't be the sole motivating factor in everything.

ok, at least for research, education, anything that has an impact on the integrity, the happiness, the development and the survival of any individual and humanity in general. Which doesn't mean people who work in that direction should not be payed! of course, they need to survive, live like any one else, but their salary should not be directly dependent on what they produce, but only on their work (in the case of research, it's evident).

And don't get me wrong, I'm not against nor afraid of money, i'd love to be rich and do a thousand things I can't do at this point, just every thing in its place.