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FOREIGN LANGUAGE REVIEWS
Posts
calunio
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CloseI just thought we should bring this discussion to a single place.
I'm against reviews in other languages for reasons that are pretty obvious.
There's some philosopher that says something like: you'll know if a given behavior is ethic if you imagine a world where everybody does that. If that world is too chaotic and harmful, then that behavior is not ethic.
I guess it would be hell if people started posting reviews in any language they desire. If a single game had reviews on many different languages. What's the point if the person who made the game will not understand it? Google translator is not a solution, of course. RMN is too organized for such a messy breach.
There's also the obvious problem that whoever accepts or denies reviews would have no criteria to accept or deny a review he can't read.
I would only open exceptions if reviews were written in the same language as the game itself, in case of non-English games.
Just suggesting, of course.
I'm against reviews in other languages for reasons that are pretty obvious.
There's some philosopher that says something like: you'll know if a given behavior is ethic if you imagine a world where everybody does that. If that world is too chaotic and harmful, then that behavior is not ethic.
I guess it would be hell if people started posting reviews in any language they desire. If a single game had reviews on many different languages. What's the point if the person who made the game will not understand it? Google translator is not a solution, of course. RMN is too organized for such a messy breach.
There's also the obvious problem that whoever accepts or denies reviews would have no criteria to accept or deny a review he can't read.
I would only open exceptions if reviews were written in the same language as the game itself, in case of non-English games.
Just suggesting, of course.
Billwilliams
1159
Should only be allowed if the reviewer can arrange an English translation to be posted with the review. (quite sure we can figure out a way to do that sort of thing.)
So, what languages can the staff read?
What if a review on a language no one can read pops up?
I mean, I'm a spanish speaker but I took the trouble to post all of my reviews in English, I'm a little confused now. Should I just have posted them in spanish?
An official determination would be nice, I guess.
What if a review on a language no one can read pops up?
I mean, I'm a spanish speaker but I took the trouble to post all of my reviews in English, I'm a little confused now. Should I just have posted them in spanish?
An official determination would be nice, I guess.
Brent
0
Who really cares, anyways? A review is still a review, regardless weither it is in English or not. I would rather take a review written in Spanish, Hindi, Japanese, etc., than nothing at all.
Yeah, this community is mostly a English speaking one, but who really cares. Besides, it's still somebody giving a game a score outta five, so big deal.
EDIT: Hot damn, I just sounded like Karu for a second. Sorry, I'm having a rough night, sorry if this sounded kinda mean.
Yeah, this community is mostly a English speaking one, but who really cares. Besides, it's still somebody giving a game a score outta five, so big deal.
EDIT: Hot damn, I just sounded like Karu for a second. Sorry, I'm having a rough night, sorry if this sounded kinda mean.
It is in the author's best interest to write the review in english, since it is obvious that english is the predominant language used here. And to be honest, that motivation is enough. I don't think it needs to be an official rule.
I think we also have a few non-english games here.
I think we also have a few non-english games here.
Shinan
4314
Så... Hur är det då om jag översätter mina tidigare engelskspråkiga recensioner till svenska för litet extra makerscore? Är det då tillåtet? För om man nu går enligt policy att ha mängder med språk så torde väl så mycket som möjligt av sidan också vara översatt.
Jag menar mest om det här är något som vi kan arbeta för en "multi-språkshemsida" eller dylikt. Då borde det väl kodas in stöd för spelsidor med olika språk också.
I korthet så är jag också emot recensioner på andra språk. Den här hemsidans officiella språk känns som engelska och det känns fel om vi plötsligt ska, i princip, splittra communityn i olika språkgrupper.
(Något som ju skulle hända om det här tillåts som policy)
Så jo. Att börja blanda in mängder med språk på den här sidan känns bara som en Otroligt Dålig Idé(tm).
Jag menar mest om det här är något som vi kan arbeta för en "multi-språkshemsida" eller dylikt. Då borde det väl kodas in stöd för spelsidor med olika språk också.
I korthet så är jag också emot recensioner på andra språk. Den här hemsidans officiella språk känns som engelska och det känns fel om vi plötsligt ska, i princip, splittra communityn i olika språkgrupper.
(Något som ju skulle hända om det här tillåts som policy)
Så jo. Att börja blanda in mängder med språk på den här sidan känns bara som en Otroligt Dålig Idé(tm).
Personnellement, je trouve ça plûtot sympathique toutes ces langues qui se croisent. Pas forcément très simple..., mais sympathique!
Vamos ver quantos posts em línguas estrangeiras são necessários até alguém perceber que essa ideia é completamente imbecil.
Cada um está postando em uma língua, e claramente ninguém está se comunicando. Porque obviamente, se é pra gente brincar de google translator, o tempo que cada pessoa vai gastar para navegar o site vai quadruplicar.
Cada um está postando em uma língua, e claramente ninguém está se comunicando. Porque obviamente, se é pra gente brincar de google translator, o tempo que cada pessoa vai gastar para navegar o site vai quadruplicar.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=calunio
I guess it would be hell if people started posting reviews in any language they desire. If a single game had reviews on many different languages. What's the point if the person who made the game will not understand it?.
I can definitely see why you don't think it's useful to you or to the game designer, but what makes you say it would be hell? It's potentially useful to foreign players, which is at least something, and I don't see how it actually does any harm.
I mean, this is an American website - it ends in .net - so I can definitely see how it's obnoxious and possibly not worth the effort to support foreign languages. I don't particularly care either way. I'm just curious how people think it could possibly be harmful. Useless, sure. Slightly annoying, sure. But harmful?
I thought the foreign language reviews were a nice touch, but the last couple posts in this thread do cause me to re-consider my position. Though, I'm not enjoying the potential of what this could mean for the reviews, or games, that are in a language other than English.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I will say that allowing foreign languages based on what languages the staff speaks has the potential to cause a lot of grief if the staff changes in the future. Then suddenly you'll have a Spanish game with two Spanish reviews, but no one can submit any new reviews for it. Which is really bad in general, and even worse if the game updates and makes the old reviews become outdated.
O efeito prejudicial é justamente esse. Eu estou chamando todo mundo de imbecil aqui, e ninguém vai nem ligar, porque ninguém entende o que eu estou falando. Eu estou falando sozinho, e as pessoas que estão postando também estão falando sozinhas, porque não estão se baseando nos posts em outras línguas. Este é o efeito prejudicial. Um monte de gente falando sozinha num site de discussão.
En mielelläni aloittaisi kirjoittamaan suomenkielistä viestiä keskustelupalstalla, jossa yleinen keskustelukieli on englanti, mutta voin aivan yhtä hyvin tehdä niin, painottaakseni ajatusta tämän keskusteluaiheen takana.
Jos arvosteluiden kirjoittaminen millä tahansa kielellä olisi sallittua, moni luultavasti kirjoittaisi arvostelunsa omalla kielellään, sillä se säästäisi paljon vaivaa tekstin kieliasun muotoilussa, sekä kieliopin korjaamisessa.
Arvostelut antavat kirjoittajallensa saman määrän makerscore:a, riippumatta kielestä jolla arvostelu on kirjoitettu. Käytännössä tämä tarkoittaa että arvostelun kirjoittaja saa arvostelustansa saman hyödyn vähemmällä vaivalla.
Olettaisin itse kumminkin, että arvostelun kirjoittajalle on tärkeämpää se, että hän tavoittaa sillä ihmisiä, kuten arvosteltavan pelin tuottajat, taikka sen pelaajat. Tässä tapauksessa olisi paljon suotavampaa käyttää kieltä, joka on oletettavasti suurimmalle osalle sivun käyttäjäryhmästä kieli jota myös he ymmärtävät.
Täten en siis näe mitään syytä miksi sivun pitäisi sallia muita, kuin englanniksi kirjoitettuja arvosteluja, ellei se tosiaan pyri siihen, että sivustolla olisi sallittua kommunikoida millä kielellä tahansa, joka taas tuo mieleeni erittäin kaoottisen ja hankalasti navigoitavan sivun.
Jos arvostelun kirjoittaja ei yksinkertaisesti pysty arvioimaan peliä muulla kuin omalla kielellänsä, näkisin parempana vaihtoehtona sen, että hän näkisi vaivaa edes sen verran että etsisi apua tekstinsä kääntämisessä englanniksi, mikäli hän haluaa saada viestinsä perille sen lukijoille, sen sijaan että olettaisi ihmisten alkavan itse kääntämään hänen tekstiään.
Ethän voi olettaa ihmisten ymmärtävän sinua jos et suostu puhumaan muuta kuin omaa kieltäsi paikassa, jossa enemmistö ihmisistä kommunikoi aivan eri kielellä.
------------------------
And to actually get my point across, let me translate that into english:
I would rather not start writing a message in finnish at a messageboard where the mutual language is english, but I might do it just as well to emphasize the thought behind this topic.
If writing and submitting reviews in any language would be allowed, a lot of people would write their reviews on their native language as it would save them from a lot of trouble at formatting their text and writing it in proper grammar.
Reviews give the same amount of makerscore to their writers, regardless of the language the review has been written in. Practically this means that the reviewers gets the same benefit from writing the review with less effort.
I would assume however, that to the author of the review it is more important to reach the readers, like the developers and the players of the game. In this case it would be preferable to use language which the majority of members of this site actually can understand.
So I don't really see a reason why this site should allow other reviews, than those written in english, unless the purpose is that you can communicate here in any given language - which brings an idea to my mind of a very chaotic site that is hard to navigate.
If the author of the review simply can't review the game in other language than his native language, which isn't english, I would still see it being a better choice if he just went through the effort to seek some help at translating his review into english, so that he would get his message through to the readers, rather than assume people to start translating it by themselves.
You really can't expect people to understand you if you refuse to speak other than your own language in a place where the common language is something else?
ps. Sure there are members here that can understand other languages than english, but it has to be a really small minority that can't understand english here at all. I don't really think those people visit this site either, and I really don't think that a few reviews written in their language will change that, as they will most likely find those reviews in Rpg maker sites of their own language. And as I pointed out above, that if you aim to allow more languages on the site in general, as it is designed now, it is not very supportive to this idea.
Jos arvosteluiden kirjoittaminen millä tahansa kielellä olisi sallittua, moni luultavasti kirjoittaisi arvostelunsa omalla kielellään, sillä se säästäisi paljon vaivaa tekstin kieliasun muotoilussa, sekä kieliopin korjaamisessa.
Arvostelut antavat kirjoittajallensa saman määrän makerscore:a, riippumatta kielestä jolla arvostelu on kirjoitettu. Käytännössä tämä tarkoittaa että arvostelun kirjoittaja saa arvostelustansa saman hyödyn vähemmällä vaivalla.
Olettaisin itse kumminkin, että arvostelun kirjoittajalle on tärkeämpää se, että hän tavoittaa sillä ihmisiä, kuten arvosteltavan pelin tuottajat, taikka sen pelaajat. Tässä tapauksessa olisi paljon suotavampaa käyttää kieltä, joka on oletettavasti suurimmalle osalle sivun käyttäjäryhmästä kieli jota myös he ymmärtävät.
Täten en siis näe mitään syytä miksi sivun pitäisi sallia muita, kuin englanniksi kirjoitettuja arvosteluja, ellei se tosiaan pyri siihen, että sivustolla olisi sallittua kommunikoida millä kielellä tahansa, joka taas tuo mieleeni erittäin kaoottisen ja hankalasti navigoitavan sivun.
Jos arvostelun kirjoittaja ei yksinkertaisesti pysty arvioimaan peliä muulla kuin omalla kielellänsä, näkisin parempana vaihtoehtona sen, että hän näkisi vaivaa edes sen verran että etsisi apua tekstinsä kääntämisessä englanniksi, mikäli hän haluaa saada viestinsä perille sen lukijoille, sen sijaan että olettaisi ihmisten alkavan itse kääntämään hänen tekstiään.
Ethän voi olettaa ihmisten ymmärtävän sinua jos et suostu puhumaan muuta kuin omaa kieltäsi paikassa, jossa enemmistö ihmisistä kommunikoi aivan eri kielellä.
------------------------
And to actually get my point across, let me translate that into english:
I would rather not start writing a message in finnish at a messageboard where the mutual language is english, but I might do it just as well to emphasize the thought behind this topic.
If writing and submitting reviews in any language would be allowed, a lot of people would write their reviews on their native language as it would save them from a lot of trouble at formatting their text and writing it in proper grammar.
Reviews give the same amount of makerscore to their writers, regardless of the language the review has been written in. Practically this means that the reviewers gets the same benefit from writing the review with less effort.
I would assume however, that to the author of the review it is more important to reach the readers, like the developers and the players of the game. In this case it would be preferable to use language which the majority of members of this site actually can understand.
So I don't really see a reason why this site should allow other reviews, than those written in english, unless the purpose is that you can communicate here in any given language - which brings an idea to my mind of a very chaotic site that is hard to navigate.
If the author of the review simply can't review the game in other language than his native language, which isn't english, I would still see it being a better choice if he just went through the effort to seek some help at translating his review into english, so that he would get his message through to the readers, rather than assume people to start translating it by themselves.
You really can't expect people to understand you if you refuse to speak other than your own language in a place where the common language is something else?
ps. Sure there are members here that can understand other languages than english, but it has to be a really small minority that can't understand english here at all. I don't really think those people visit this site either, and I really don't think that a few reviews written in their language will change that, as they will most likely find those reviews in Rpg maker sites of their own language. And as I pointed out above, that if you aim to allow more languages on the site in general, as it is designed now, it is not very supportive to this idea.
I love how things are always worst case scenario with you guys.
In our 4 year history with hundreds of reviews we've had 2 reviews written in non-english. This is hardly something even worth talking about, and as it was done now and will be done in the future it will be handled in a case by case basis.
In our 4 year history with hundreds of reviews we've had 2 reviews written in non-english. This is hardly something even worth talking about, and as it was done now and will be done in the future it will be handled in a case by case basis.
Shinan
4314
Nåh, de där två av hundratals skrevs ju nyligen och blev accepterade nyligen. Så givetvis ska man ha diskussionen NU. Jag skulle förstås om recensionerna hade skrivits för två år sedan och i en momentary lapse of judgement så accepterade man dem och nu plötsligt märkte någon det.
Men det här är nu något nytt och man vill ju bl.a. veta den officiella ståndpunkten här. D.v.s. får jag "gratis" makerscore genom att översätta mina recensioner till svenska? (och eventuellt till dålig finska. Tredubbel score MUAHAHAHAHA!)
Men det här är nu något nytt och man vill ju bl.a. veta den officiella ståndpunkten här. D.v.s. får jag "gratis" makerscore genom att översätta mina recensioner till svenska? (och eventuellt till dålig finska. Tredubbel score MUAHAHAHAHA!)
here's something that everyone should understand: fuck off.
I am getting tired of this constant cantankerous scrutinization of every little bullshit thing and it being blown way out of proportion when it doesn't even matter all that fucking much.
I am getting tired of this constant cantankerous scrutinization of every little bullshit thing and it being blown way out of proportion when it doesn't even matter all that fucking much.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Not having rules for a situation is madness.
As Shinan stated - the reviews were accepted just recently, not a long time ago in the past, hence why this discussion is going on right now.
Sure a few reviews could slip past in another language, but what is the benefit of them if there's just a few? And is the benefit of them greater than the annoyance? Sure they're not a big deal, but as noticeable as they are on the site, didn't you think they'd create discussion here on the forums where it's been quiet and boring for a while? So don't take it personally kentona.
I think that reviews people don't understand are just potentially pretty annoying and don't serve a real purpose here on a english-speaking community, and it makes people question why they couldn't post reviews on their native language as well, even though I'd doubt they will.
If it's just a two reviews as you stated, why accept them? While you did, you can start a snowball effect where people moan when they don't understand why their reviews weren't accepted too.
Like you said, it's not a huge thing to discuss about right now, but it's something flammable, so eventually someone will start about it...
And while I argued about my personal nickname change with admins just a while ago, you guys brought the worst case scenario up then as well, and I think it's good to think "what if?" (mostly if you've got too much time in your hands) You said you'd have a policy up for nickname changes, and foreign language on the site needs a policy pretty much just as well as nickname changes!
People aren't starting the discussion just to annoy you, but to get an argument why something is changed, and to clarify if it's for better or worse.
ps. that sort of behavior is generally pretty much given though, if you think about it. Being reserved to it with a convincing reasoning is usually pretty handy. And usually informing people on the moment that the change happens or beofre it, in case you don't want to discuss about it afterwards.
Sure a few reviews could slip past in another language, but what is the benefit of them if there's just a few? And is the benefit of them greater than the annoyance? Sure they're not a big deal, but as noticeable as they are on the site, didn't you think they'd create discussion here on the forums where it's been quiet and boring for a while? So don't take it personally kentona.
I think that reviews people don't understand are just potentially pretty annoying and don't serve a real purpose here on a english-speaking community, and it makes people question why they couldn't post reviews on their native language as well, even though I'd doubt they will.
If it's just a two reviews as you stated, why accept them? While you did, you can start a snowball effect where people moan when they don't understand why their reviews weren't accepted too.
Like you said, it's not a huge thing to discuss about right now, but it's something flammable, so eventually someone will start about it...
And while I argued about my personal nickname change with admins just a while ago, you guys brought the worst case scenario up then as well, and I think it's good to think "what if?" (mostly if you've got too much time in your hands) You said you'd have a policy up for nickname changes, and foreign language on the site needs a policy pretty much just as well as nickname changes!
People aren't starting the discussion just to annoy you, but to get an argument why something is changed, and to clarify if it's for better or worse.
ps. that sort of behavior is generally pretty much given though, if you think about it. Being reserved to it with a convincing reasoning is usually pretty handy. And usually informing people on the moment that the change happens or beofre it, in case you don't want to discuss about it afterwards.
