INTERNET BLACKLISTING, SAVE THE INTERNET!

author=alterego
From my understanding, the main target of this bill is to block foreign websites that stream whole movies and whatnot, which sounds fine to me, really. If Hollywood movies suck as much as people often say they do, then why do they need to watch them on some Russian site anyway?

The problem here is that:

1. The sites do not need to be foreign, contrary to what SOPA might imply.
2. The definition of infringing material is extremely vague and the repercussions excessive.

For example, RMN could be held liable without court hearing for an article that casually quotes a line or uses a screenshot from a copyrighted game. The line quoted and/or screenshot are copyrighted material and that alone is grounds for shutting down all of RMN. Free-use clauses go straight out the window.

This would also mean fangames and all other types of fan works are off limits. That nifty FF fangame? That game featuring an epic retelling of Fire Emblem 6? That spin-off game based around Warcraft? That wonderful game that features an expy of Sephiroth? All gone unless RMN wants to be sunk.

If SOPA were to pass, the only way RMN could hope to stay alive would be to ban or strictly review all user-generated content for use of any and all copyrighted material (including things like fanart), and basically become nothing more than a passive and draconian game repository.

author=alterego
The only problem here is that in order to block such sites effectively they want to tamper with the "integrity of the web" which does sound like dick move, but I wonder how much of that concern is just Google et al trying to protect their own pockets.

The bill proposes modifying DNS records to systematically block certain domains from redirecting to certain IP addresses and criminalizing any and all systems and software that work around this. This however poses some glaring problems; to mention a few:

1. A fracturing of the DNS system network. DNS as a system is meant to maintain identical records on all DNS servers so that they all return the same information when pinged for domain->IP redirects. Censoring of certain DNS servers, specifically those under US jurisdiction, creates differences between the records maintained throughout the DNS network and eventually fractures the network into regional blocks all maintaining different records. This results in unreliable DNS system performance, security risks in properly returning legitimate DNS record information, and all around chaos for the fundamental basis of the internet.

2. Effects on the internet outside US borders because of SOPA's wholesale tampering with DNS, which is nothing short of overstepping of US jurisdiction from the POV of other countries.

3. Criminalization of all systems that are currently being developed as alternatives to today's DNS, to complement DNS, or to circumvent DNS censoring like those present in China. Systems such as DNSSEC and Tor, which complement DNS reliability and serve as an alternative to DNS respectively, would effectively be killed off.

author=alterego
Domestic, legitimate sites wouldn't be blocked because they have all the means to demonstrate they don't have the primary intent to distribute copyrighted material...

Yes, under the safe harbor provisions of DMCA. However, SOPA unofficially supercedes DMCA because of SOPA's more appealing takedown mechanisms. Why target specific illegal content and take the issue to court when you can just point fingers and take the whole accused site down like a boss without even needing a judge to hear the case? SOPA doesn't care if your primary intention is copyright infringement or not, if you provide the means to do so then you are held liable regardless of whether there actually was infringement.

author=alterego
Until now, they would only take down stuff brought to their attention by the copyright holder, but we all know how well that goes, as soon as one video is taken down two more are up. Now they'd be expected to clean up their act and strictly moderate their user's submitted content. At the end some legal stuff may get pulled by mistake, but that's not a fault of the bill per se.

How is it not the fault of SOPA (and its enforcers) when the framework of the bill doesn't make enough of a difference between legal and illegal content thanks to its vagueness and takedown mechanisms? DMCA was designed the way it was precisely because SOPA's method of shotgun takedowns simply causes way too much collateral damage.

author=alterego
Let's face it. "Freedom of expression" doesn't mean people have the right to post or watch TV shows, Movies, or Videogame footage(?) on the internet. Nor that websites can turn a blind eye on it out of convenience. The people who hold the right of that stuff can lose money because of it and that is a bad thing too, as much as we may not like them. Their ways are often exaggerated, insightful and just plain ineffective, but I wouldn't be so fast to describe them as oppressive or anything like that as people make them out to be.

The issues present are legitimate and requires addressing at some point, but is that really worth suppressing user-generated content and technological innovations over? Everything about the fundamental values of freedom of speech and advancement of technology is at stake here.

author=alterego
I really hope the bill doesn't pass, mainly because one much less shady already did, and it hasn't even been put into practice yet. I also hope the 'Entertainment' industry hears the plead of the IT industry and work together to find better solutions for this problem.... But more than anything I wish the internet didn't freak out about this kind of bills every three months and would learn more about copyright laws instead.

Edit: Of course, this applies to me too. That goes without saying, but just in case...

I hope it doesn't pass either. =x

way to go guys we saved the internet for another day

author=KingArthur
For example, RMN could be held liable without court hearing for an article that casually quotes a line or uses a screenshot from a copyrighted game. The line quoted and/or screenshot are copyrighted material and that alone is grounds for shutting down all of RMN. Free-use clauses go straight out the window.

From what I could gather, an alleged offending site just couldn't be blacklisted overnight. A site must first be notified, and then it has a period of time to send a counter-notification. (whatever that really means) From there on, the Copyright-holders can choose to take the case to court if they so desire, just as it has always been. ...The way I see this could be abused is that the 'Entertainment' industry would start sending notifications left and right without the need of a court order for it, to intimidate many sites and put pressure on service providers.

I mean, the bill is nasty, alright. But I find it hard to believe what some people say that will place absolute power in the hands of corporations to do whatever they want, and send whoever they want to jail without due process. The "first amendment" will still be there, the "fair use" clauses will still be there, and if an article falls under them then no site is going to be (permanently) shut down because of it.

author=KingArthur
This would also mean fangames and all other types of fan works are off limits. That nifty FF fangame? That game featuring an epic retelling of Fire Emblem 6? That spin-off game based around Warcraft? That wonderful game that features an expy of Sephiroth? All gone unless RMN wants to be sunk.

Which is fine to me, really... Fan works should be off-limits, they are a clear violation of Copyright. People only keep making them because they ignore this fact, and because they rarely meet consequences for their actions... If companies allow it or turn a blind eye to it is mostly because they can't do much else, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't like to. If this bill addresses the issue and fixes it for them, (albeit trough the wrong methods) of course they're going to support it. You can only blame them so much for trying to protect what is theirs.

author=KingArthur
If SOPA were to pass, the only way RMN could hope to stay alive would be to ban or strictly review all user-generated content for use of any and all copyrighted material (including things like fanart), and basically become nothing more than a passive and draconian game repository.

That's what we should be doing anyway. - Let's be honest, nobody wants this bill to pass mostly out of convenience. Google would have to waste a lot of money to clean their search engine results, and we'd be forced to use only legal versions of rpgmaker, and make our own graphics, our own music, etc. ...Sure, it would cost us sweat, tears, and blood, but in the long run I think it would be for the best.

Anyway, the bill was "tossed out" or so I heard, so everything is fine again, at least for now...

From what I could gather, an alleged offending site just couldn't be blacklisted overnight. A site must first be notified, and then it has a period of time to send a counter-notification. (whatever that really means) From there on, the Copyright-holders can choose to take the case to court if they so desire, just as it has always been.

What you're speaking of is the takedown mechanisms provided by the DMCA, which requires copyright holders to notify websites of specific infringing content. The website(s) in question can then comply or reply back in the negative, upon which the copyright holders can take the case to court.

SOPA does away with that. A simple accusation, not requiring the judgment of a proper court, is all that is needed to take down the website in question wholesale.

It's similar to the domain name seizures that the US government pulled off some time last year, where the sites in question were not notified of the seizures beforehand and the seizures were made without any due hearing by courts (or did the courts just insta-approve the seizures? My memory is a bit foggy). The difference here is that, while the domain name seizures were a one-time exception that was met with controversy, SOPA makes acts like that official and legal while also widening the target to include just about any website that relies on user-generated content.

Basically, if you (or anyone else) think that the DMCA safe harbors will still apply, they will not. SOPA will supercede and render DMCA obsolete and dead.

I mean, the bill is nasty, alright. But I find it hard to believe what some people say that will place absolute power in the hands of corporations to do whatever they want, and send whoever they want to jail without due process. The "first amendment" will still be there, the "fair use" clauses will still be there, and if an article falls under them then no site is going to be (permanently) shut down because of it.

If the First Amendment and the Fair-Use clause really are important as people today try to make it out to be (and I hope it is!), bills like the SOPA shouldn't even be up for consideration, let alone written in the first place.

Which is fine to me, really... Fan works should be off-limits, they are a clear violation of Copyright. People only keep making them because they ignore this fact, and because they rarely meet consequences for their actions... If companies allow it or turn a blind eye to it, is mostly because they can't do much else, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't like to. If this bill addresses the issue and fixes it for them, (albeit trough the wrong methods) of course they're going to support it. You can only blame them so much for trying to protect what is theirs.

You seem to forget that oftentimes a lot of art, innovation, and creativity stems initially from fan works.

Take for example the epic stories about King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table. Most were written by French bards and authors who loved the characters and then by subsequent people around the world who built upon their predecessors (and it's still being developed today, just look at works like Fate/Stay-Night and Cardfight!! Vanguard). If fan works were forbidden, the world would have never known of King Arthur, the Legendary King of Knights we all know and love. Santa Claus would also be a similar case; Santa as we know him today is a modern reimaging of the Santa Claus of olde.

Taking more modern examples, what about software that emulates the functions of another but is completely different in their source code, such as Internet Explorer and Firefox or IPB and phpBB? Or hardware emulators like VBA and ePSXe, which are by themselves legitimate software but emulate copyrighted behavior? What about game mods, from which many games have flourished? What about sites like TVTropes, which relies on fan appreciation to dig into how and why human culture creates the art that it creates (yes, TVTropes can be philosophical!)? What about all the technological inventions and miracles that have happened, and will continue to happen, that just turned out to originally be something casually thought up of by an SF author?

Actually, what about anything that takes inspiration from and/or builds upon another? You would seriously support doing away with all of that? Seriously? There is a fine line between innovation/fan appreciation and infringement of copyrights.

That's what we should be doing anyway. - Let's be honest, nobody wants this bill to pass out of convenience. Google would have to waste a lot of money to clean their search engine results, and we'd be forced to use only legal versions of rpgmaker, and make our own graphics, our own music, etc. ...Sure, it would cost us sweat, tears, and blood, but in the long run I think it would be for the best.

EDIT: Not out of convenience, though I won't deny those reasons you gave would be potential factors.

The issue everyone that is opposing is having, besides those already given here, is that SOPA sets a dangerous precedent for future bills that can potentially infringe the First Amendment. In the long run, we're trading freedom for maintaining outdated business models and eventually suppressing freedom of speech in a way many people will not recognize before it's too late.

Anyway, the bill was "tossed out" or so I heard, so everything is fine again, at least for now...

Got any information for us to look at? =O

author=alter
Fan works should be off-limits, they are a clear violation of Copyright.

This statement is profoundly silly simply because of pretty much of half of all art is a 'fan work' of some kind. Yes, that includes your favorite movies, tv shows, games, books, etc etc. Art imitates art.

author=KingArthur
Actually, what about anything that takes inspiration from and/or builds upon another? You would seriously support doing away with all of that? Seriously? There is a fine line between innovation/fan appreciation and infringement of copyrights.

Of course not! Not ALL of that. Just the part of it that belongs to the greedy people with the scary lawyers. - There are tons of stuff out there that we can use for inspiration, to build upon, to innovate with, etc. We don't use it because it's much less popular... Instead, we have adopted the illusion that we need the other stuff just because they put it right in front of us, and we're dumb enough to keep consuming it.

author=Mog
This statement is profoundly silly simply because of pretty much of half of all art is a 'fan work' of some kind. Yes, that includes your favorite movies, tv shows, games, books, etc etc. Art imitates art.

I thought it was obvious enough I was talking about an specific kind of 'Fan Work' and not of any other sort... Yes, I know that "Everything is a remix" But it doesn't have to be a remix that could land you in jail. The key here is to understand how exactly copyright laws work; To know what is and what isn't a "Derivative work" What falls under "Fair use" and what doesn't, etc. - The day we do, we'll be truly free!!!!!

author=Dyhalto
As CharlesGabriel said, regulation and strict IP enforcement will destroy the internet as we know it. By taking away the free creation aspect, the web's final destination will be Cable TV part 2. 10000 websites; all of them boring.

Except that I don't see those things as synonymous of taking away the "free creation aspects" of anything, much less in an absolute manner as is often suggested. You'll always be free to create whatever you want within the boundaries of the law! That hasn't stopped anyone before! ...I know the people behind this bill like to sue little girls in their spare time; but I just can't be so distrustful. Not even of them.
_
Just to clarify, I'm not defending this particular bill (or any other for that matter) simply because I don't understand it whole. But then again, I wonder who really does? I can't shake the feeling that most of what I've been hearing about this bill is only wild speculation or just plain fear-mongering... It reminds me of that whole "Obama wants to kill your Grandmother" deal of some time ago. xP

author=alterego
You'll always be free to create whatever you want within the boundaries of the law! That hasn't stopped anyone before!

The whole point of art is that it's not supposed to be restrained by the whims of bureaucrats. And history is full of examples where the monarch/state cracked down on artistic expression because it was directed against them or their policies.

author=alterego
It reminds me of that whole "Obama wants to kill your Grandmother" deal of some time ago. xP

Well, when "Obamacare" does come into effect in 2014, grandma's chances of survival are significantly less than they are today xP
This isn't the thread to start talking about it, but you need to look into it more :D It's really nefarious and evil intentioned. No exaggeration.

Except that I don't see those things as synonymous of taking away the "free creation aspects" of anything, much less in an absolute manner as is often suggested. You'll always be free to create whatever you want within the boundaries of the law!

The problem is that the "boundaries" set by SOPA will be so constricted there may as well be no space to move within the boundaries. Any "protection" of IP rights from SOPA will merely be a by-product of the systematic killing of all freely created content that has even a remote chance of containing copyrighted material.