BACKWARDS_COWBOY'S PROFILE
Gaming and game design are my hobbies. I've spent the most time with VX Ace and 2k3 (prior to Steam release), but the only thing I've ever finished anything with is 2k.
Psychology was my first degree, but being responsible for depressed kids was too stressful. So I got a Masters in Healthcare Management and now I'm responsible for depressed adults!
Psychology was my first degree, but being responsible for depressed kids was too stressful. So I got a Masters in Healthcare Management and now I'm responsible for depressed adults!
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Are achievements a poor way to increase game length?
One thing I absolutely despise about some achievements is when you're looking at the list of possible achievements/trophies and it says "Hidden Trophy". What the hell does that even mean? There are some games that do it in a tiered process; earning one trophy for "Killing 500 Enemies" reveals the hidden trophy for "Killing 5000 Enemies". While pointless, at least you can justify it. If a player saw it before first killing those 500 enemies (10% of the 5000), they might feel intimidated. But now that they already have 10% of those kills, they will be more likely to go for it. The same goes for trophies revealed upon beating the game; they prevent possible spoilers, so they can be justified.
On the other side of the Hidden Trophy spectrum, there are some games in which I've earned the trophy without knowing it existed. That's the worst thing they could do with the hidden process. It's a pretty evil way to pad the length of the game. If a player has OCD or is a completionist, they will go out and play the game for possibly hundreds of hours to get the trophy. Or google it.
Another is forced playthroughs, like in the Fallout series. "Reach Level 30 as Good", "Reach Level 30 as Evil", "Reach Level 30 as Neutral" (Impossible unless you just want to kill unaligned scorpions for a few hours, or steal ten thousand items to offset your "Good" quest completion) are pretty cheap ways to make the player go through your 15-20 hour base game again (excluding optional quests and locations). Now, you could always save before setting off certain karma-shifting events and make it easy, but there's an achievement every few levels for each of the three karma paths, starting at some point between level 5 or 8. Now stick the "Earn All other Trophies/Achievements" in there, and you have yourself a few hundred hours of gameplay.
On the other side of the Hidden Trophy spectrum, there are some games in which I've earned the trophy without knowing it existed. That's the worst thing they could do with the hidden process. It's a pretty evil way to pad the length of the game. If a player has OCD or is a completionist, they will go out and play the game for possibly hundreds of hours to get the trophy. Or google it.
Another is forced playthroughs, like in the Fallout series. "Reach Level 30 as Good", "Reach Level 30 as Evil", "Reach Level 30 as Neutral" (Impossible unless you just want to kill unaligned scorpions for a few hours, or steal ten thousand items to offset your "Good" quest completion) are pretty cheap ways to make the player go through your 15-20 hour base game again (excluding optional quests and locations). Now, you could always save before setting off certain karma-shifting events and make it easy, but there's an achievement every few levels for each of the three karma paths, starting at some point between level 5 or 8. Now stick the "Earn All other Trophies/Achievements" in there, and you have yourself a few hundred hours of gameplay.
How to add fun to grinding?
author=RyaReisender
On that note, I like it when level up always has a noticable improvement.
Often RPGs are so that leveling up is quite significant early on (HP 30->45, ATK 8->12, aka 50% increase) but loses significance towards the end (HP 9000->9090, ATK 300->303, aka 1% increase). That makes it often hardly noticable. Because whether you hit that 100 def kraken boss for 200 damage or 203 damage doesn't really matter much.
Better is if a single level higher is always a significant difference. So you actually feel the improvement.
That also depends on how many levels there are in the game, and how quickly you gain them. If you gain a level in less than five easy battles, then that 3 ATK increase is going to be a 30 ATK increase in a few minutes. On the other hand, if it takes 50 battles to level up, it's pretty worthless unless you learn some powerful skill or gain enough skill points to get one. A lot of newer games in the Tales series, for example, have you leveling up in 10-12 battles at level 38 (Around mid-game, or later mid-game). Although the base stat increases are pretty low, you earn skill points on leveling up that let you unlock things like "P. ATK +30", "HP +108", "Tidal Wave", "Action Points +1", etc. Or, in Disgaea, you can gain 80 levels from killing one strong enemy, which seems like a lot until you realize there are 9999 levels per character.
Is RNG good or bad?
author=RyaReisender
Well in Ragnarok Online for example those really rare items are usually very overpowered. Like one boss 0.01% drop makes you immune to magic. Now PVP in Ragnarok Online if mostly guild vs guild. If only one player of one guild has the item, they have an advantage, but other guilds will know it if they face that guild and can prepare for it and position physical attackers to hunt down the person with the item.
If that item existed more than 2-3 times, magic will become useless and the whole concept would break and make PVP boring.
Not saying it's a good concept, some server even opted to remove that item completely. But in the end it's a concept that sells well.
That seems like an example of very, very bad RNG. That's essentially a game-breaking drop, primarily if done in single-player PVP. The existence of that item alone would be enough for me to avoid (I'm assuming it's a late-game item) high-level PVP, depending on how magically-oriented I was. I understand that game developers of multiplayer games don't take emotions into account, but imagine how many magic users quit the game once the existence of that item became common knowledge; not because they had personally been robbed of victory by it, but because they might one day have to face somebody who is using it. It's an example of how one item alone can influence the class or weapon choices of thousands of people. I mean, it's so rare that you won't see it often and won't matter too much, but the fact that there could be one guy who keeps doing PVP against magic users and has that item just seems wrong to me.
When it comes to RNG-based rare drops in competitive MMOs, I feel like premium items or customization items (hair dye, premium clothing, etc.) is a better reward, because you can still brag about it or show off, but you aren't breaking the game for the poor guy who can't even hit you with the ultimate spell.
How to add fun to grinding?
I like grinding only in games that use a form of skill-point system, or if the game is co-op. I have no problem grinding when playing Tales of Xillia with my younger brother, as having somebody to grind with is not only more fun, but makes it go by faster due to me having better control of the butler than the AI does (I just cast Tidal Wave at the start of every battle, wipes out 90% of all enemies). Or if the game has an action-oriented battle system, like the Tales series (Graces and Xillia in particular, as they had a point-based and level system), or even FFXII and FFX with the grids and licenses. If the grinding means customizing my character, I'm sure as hell going to do it, even more so if the battles require my undivided attention or skill. I'll even willingly kill the same damn Earth Dragon hundreds of times if it drops 10,000 Gald so that I can donate it towards the millions required to rebuild the town.
It all depends on how your game works. Grinding just to level up and follow a set linear path is AWFUL game design. It only worked in the 80's due to most games lacking much of a story, and your other options in games being those that had to be beaten in one sitting or just for a high score. But even the indie-game technology has evolved beyond that, and just look at the remakes of those 80's games: Final Fantasy I for the PSP and iPhone is ridiculously easy, and grinding takes mere minutes if done in the correct area. Final Fantasy II saw changes to its stat gaining system, so that you could max out your stats quickly if you knew the proper tactics. Grinding is only fun if it offers rewards. Gaining a level so that you can learn that skill you will ALWAYS learn at level 30 every playthrough is NOT a reward, and will not make it any more fun.
It all depends on how your game works. Grinding just to level up and follow a set linear path is AWFUL game design. It only worked in the 80's due to most games lacking much of a story, and your other options in games being those that had to be beaten in one sitting or just for a high score. But even the indie-game technology has evolved beyond that, and just look at the remakes of those 80's games: Final Fantasy I for the PSP and iPhone is ridiculously easy, and grinding takes mere minutes if done in the correct area. Final Fantasy II saw changes to its stat gaining system, so that you could max out your stats quickly if you knew the proper tactics. Grinding is only fun if it offers rewards. Gaining a level so that you can learn that skill you will ALWAYS learn at level 30 every playthrough is NOT a reward, and will not make it any more fun.
Is RNG good or bad?
author=Link_2112
PSO is awesome xD
Ultimate 10* Agito (AUW 199Sinow Zoa 1/1051
Ultimate 10* Guilty Light Dolmdarl 1/183
Ultimate 10* Maser Beam Recon 1/5120
Ultimate 10* Silence Claw Dolmolm 1/214
Ultimate 10* Yamigarasu Deldepth 1/788
Ultimate 10* Yasminkov 2000H Sinow Zele 1/901
Ultimate 12* Psycho Wand Delbiter 1/131072
I can see 1/183 or 1/214 working if you're using those rates in an MMORPG with thousands of players. You don't want everybody having the weapon, but if you have 10,000 players, then you're looking at a few dozen people who will have it prior to manipulating the RNG. And then if you include items that improve the chances of getting a rarer weapon, you're looking at a couple hundred out of that 10,000 having the weapon. In a single-player or co-op RPG, those rates are ridiculous. Especially 1/131072. With that rate, you should be able to send in a screenshot of you getting that weapon and receive some kind of prize and televised interview.
Game Chill 2013
I'm just going to go ahead and admit that I'm not the brightest person, and thought we were designing a Winter-themed game up until just now. I have a small city with characters and conversation, and not a single thing even resembling a dungeon. Unless you count a convenience store that was closed down for health violations as a dungeon.
RMN Christmas Pixel Quilt 2013
Not saving giving a better reward?
author=InfectionFiles
Actually if the item in question is something you can obtain normally like gold or a healing potion, etc then it shouldn't be a problem at all, for anyone.
You just get alittle extra for being badass.
Or bonus experience. Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn had a level where the more senators you avoided killing, the more bonus experience you got at the end of the level. However, every senator had a valuable item in their inventory that was dropped upon death. In order to get the most experience, you had to miss out on several valuable items. It's not the exact same as having the no-save reward feature, but it's similar in the sense that you might piss a lot of people off.
Not saving giving a better reward?
author=Liberty
Perhaps allowing a finite amount of 'free' saves (perhaps tied to items?) that they can use that won't count towards their total.
A checkpoint at the start (and perhaps middle depending on length of mission) of every mission.
And all the others in the previous posts.
That brings to mind the Disgaea series and the Item World function. The Item World was only mandatory for a short demonstration, but could be used afterwards to power up weapons and items. In order to leave, you had to finish at least a certain number of floors, but if you had a certain item, you could create a checkpoint that allowed you to leave the world and go back to that spot later. It only worked once, and upon re-entering, the checkpoint was erased.
Brace yourselves, the RMN Storefront is coming
author=InfectionFiles
I've bought some pretty bad games at gamestop so I don't think that is much of a problem.
I dropped $50 on Chaos Wars, and another $40 on Mimana Iyar Chronicle. Oh, and $40 on Final Fantasy XII-2: Revenant Wings DS. So $130 should buy me the whole RMN Store catalog.
Anyways, the only two ways I see this negatively impacting anything in anyway whatsoever is that people looking for RPG Maker stuff might see the Store tab, or might go looking for games and see one or two commercial ones without seeing any free ones and be turned off, thinking that everything costs money. Or everybody becomes a $1 game developer. It destroys the spirit of game making, but on the other hand, I've done some pretty dollar-worthy things before.
I see more benefits than not-benefits, so I think it's a great idea, plus maybe it will one day cause the pages to load faster for me, or increase the responsiveness of the Quote button.













