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Stats are for Sissies: Alternatives to Traditional Growth Mechanics
I'm not 100% positive about this, but I think the video/computer game "Dungeon Master" was the first RPG to establish a standard of eschewing experience point level progression. In Dungeon Master, your characters would 'level up' their respective skills through actual use. For the time (1987) the system was very revolutionary, and variations of it are still used today.
While I think the system added a lot to the experience, I also think that the Dungeon Master system works better in action RPGs than in turn based ones. Generally, in an action RPG a player is invited to dynamically level up skills through immersive activities, such as casting a fireball spell on a group of enemies. Actions are quick and reactive, which means they seldom seem tedious. By contrast, having to level up individual abilities in a turn based RPG through battles can really come across as pointless busy work, as not having a necessary trait at a certain level can grind the game to halt. Furthermore, if characters in a turn based RPG are just grinding to improve their skills, there is no reason not to simplify things by just using traditional stats.
Having said that, the proliferation of MMOs and similar action RPGs means that skill-based gameplay isn't going away any time soon.
While I think the system added a lot to the experience, I also think that the Dungeon Master system works better in action RPGs than in turn based ones. Generally, in an action RPG a player is invited to dynamically level up skills through immersive activities, such as casting a fireball spell on a group of enemies. Actions are quick and reactive, which means they seldom seem tedious. By contrast, having to level up individual abilities in a turn based RPG through battles can really come across as pointless busy work, as not having a necessary trait at a certain level can grind the game to halt. Furthermore, if characters in a turn based RPG are just grinding to improve their skills, there is no reason not to simplify things by just using traditional stats.
Having said that, the proliferation of MMOs and similar action RPGs means that skill-based gameplay isn't going away any time soon.
Visual appeal vs other content
Well, that's kind of how real life works too. Appearances do matter, as they affect our initial reception of something or someone. If a person is well dressed and shows good hygiene, one will likely have a better initial response to said individual than if he were badly dressed and unwashed.
Of course, appearances are only the initial criteria for assessment. If a person opens his mouth and starts speaking inanely, it probably won't matter how well he is dressed. The same applies to games; if a game is pretty but lacks an appealing substance, it will succeed in attracting an audience but won't keep it for long.
I remember reading an article about how almost every game from the Playstation era with bad graphics received a negative review simply based on the visuals alone. I'm not sure if that is actually true, but I could believe it. If a game's presentation is bad, many people just won't give it a chance.
Of course, appearances are only the initial criteria for assessment. If a person opens his mouth and starts speaking inanely, it probably won't matter how well he is dressed. The same applies to games; if a game is pretty but lacks an appealing substance, it will succeed in attracting an audience but won't keep it for long.
I remember reading an article about how almost every game from the Playstation era with bad graphics received a negative review simply based on the visuals alone. I'm not sure if that is actually true, but I could believe it. If a game's presentation is bad, many people just won't give it a chance.
Visual appeal vs other content
I obviously can't speak for other people's personal tastes on what they value about a game, so I'll just give a brief summary of my thoughts on the importance of each major aspect of an RPG.
Visuals and presentation are what make a person want to play an RPG.
Gameplay is what makes a person want to keep playing an RPG.
Storyline and music are what will make a person want to remember an RPG.
In my opinion, all are important, but the middle, gameplay, is the most important. If a game isn't fun to play, nobody will play through it and it will be forgotten.
Visuals and presentation are what make a person want to play an RPG.
Gameplay is what makes a person want to keep playing an RPG.
Storyline and music are what will make a person want to remember an RPG.
In my opinion, all are important, but the middle, gameplay, is the most important. If a game isn't fun to play, nobody will play through it and it will be forgotten.
Chrono Trigger: Through The Rose-Tinted Specs
@Cozzer,
While I have seen this attitude a lot, I'm one of those people who defies that trend. I started playing video games back in the 8 bit era, and while I still like a lot of those old games, my favourite console is actually the PS2. The PS2 was a heyday for single player RPGs; you couldn't walk into a game store without seeing rows and rows of RPGs, and I loved playing them all. It was also the console to feature my favourite set of RPGs ever, Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2.
With the new generation of consoles, the RPGs I like have really fallen out of favour, and I am so uninterested in open world games like Skyrim that I haven't even bothered buying a next generation console. But if the RPGs I love do come back, I'll be right there to pick up the latest virtual reality super android interface system! :)
While I have seen this attitude a lot, I'm one of those people who defies that trend. I started playing video games back in the 8 bit era, and while I still like a lot of those old games, my favourite console is actually the PS2. The PS2 was a heyday for single player RPGs; you couldn't walk into a game store without seeing rows and rows of RPGs, and I loved playing them all. It was also the console to feature my favourite set of RPGs ever, Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2.
With the new generation of consoles, the RPGs I like have really fallen out of favour, and I am so uninterested in open world games like Skyrim that I haven't even bothered buying a next generation console. But if the RPGs I love do come back, I'll be right there to pick up the latest virtual reality super android interface system! :)
Chrono Trigger: Through The Rose-Tinted Specs
Interesting read. I agree that Chrono Trigger is a game that executed all of its elements perfectly, and is one of the best JRPGs ever made. In fact, all you'd have to do to make it a modern RPG would be to add 3D cell shaded graphics, tack on an elaborate and cantankerous new skill system, and add on multiplayer and about 10 additional hours of pointless fetch quests, (oh come on, you know it's true).
But in regards to the story being cliche...I don't see it. The story itself is pretty unique to the genre; most JRPGs involve saving the world, but how many games involve protagonists flying through time stop the end of the world by altering events in the past? The story is deep, and the characters are pretty complex. Sure, the elements are typical JRPG, and the plot and characters originate from cliches, but as we've discussed cliches aren't themselves a bad thing. Sure, it's cartoony and some things are pretty unrealistic, but the game creators were trying to be absurd and outlandish to keep the game interesting and compelling. This is the same strategy most good animes use, and it worked beautifully in Chrono Trigger because the people involved understood their craft.
...And yes, going back to what I said earlier about modern RPGs, the tastes of gamers have changed over the years. Today a solid single-player story-driven adventure like Chrono Trigger is far less desirable than a customizable, open-world online adventure, and that's just the way modern gamers roll. There's nothing wrong with that, but modern RPGs just don't appeal to me.
So, when I make my own RPGs, I hold up Chrono Trigger as a shining example of what to do right when crafting games from my generation.
But in regards to the story being cliche...I don't see it. The story itself is pretty unique to the genre; most JRPGs involve saving the world, but how many games involve protagonists flying through time stop the end of the world by altering events in the past? The story is deep, and the characters are pretty complex. Sure, the elements are typical JRPG, and the plot and characters originate from cliches, but as we've discussed cliches aren't themselves a bad thing. Sure, it's cartoony and some things are pretty unrealistic, but the game creators were trying to be absurd and outlandish to keep the game interesting and compelling. This is the same strategy most good animes use, and it worked beautifully in Chrono Trigger because the people involved understood their craft.
...And yes, going back to what I said earlier about modern RPGs, the tastes of gamers have changed over the years. Today a solid single-player story-driven adventure like Chrono Trigger is far less desirable than a customizable, open-world online adventure, and that's just the way modern gamers roll. There's nothing wrong with that, but modern RPGs just don't appeal to me.
So, when I make my own RPGs, I hold up Chrono Trigger as a shining example of what to do right when crafting games from my generation.
The Screenshot Topic Returns
@facesforce
No problem. I think that would be a good idea. While 8 bit games had a lot of contrast, it's always best to have a palette that blends together.
@Commissar_Thule
The mapping looks good. Some of the elements on the tileset look oddly sized (the jukebox is huge!)
No problem. I think that would be a good idea. While 8 bit games had a lot of contrast, it's always best to have a palette that blends together.
@Commissar_Thule
The mapping looks good. Some of the elements on the tileset look oddly sized (the jukebox is huge!)
The Screenshot Topic Returns
Ah, I see what you mean. That would be pretty awesome, as it sounds like it would be several RPGs worth of content in one. It does sound like a huge amount of work though.
The Screenshot Topic Returns
Thanks! Do you mean have each region a map you can walk around on, or a map you can select areas with? The way I'm working it is to have each region a set of selectable towns and dungeons, which gives me a lot of freedom in where to arrange things.
The Screenshot Topic Returns
@alterego
Thanks! You're right about the center of balance. I think I'll put her right leg out a bit to compensate for that, though I'll probably only ever be using the top half since it's a conversation portrait. (This is what I get for working with rough sketches first, lol.)
@Felipe_9595
The lighting effects are really fantastic. The only thing that seems a little off is that the tops of the furniture look to be of a different shade and texture than the rest.
@Deacon Batista
WAY too mighty! The mapping is good as always. The only thing that is a bit weird is how different the colour of the tree in the foreground is from the rest of the foliage. A pretty minor quibble though.
@stardust
the mist effect is very nice, and I'd like to see it animated. I think it would look even better if you found a way to blend the sides of the mountains more seamlessly into the fog, so it is harder to tell where the map ends and the panorama begins.
@facesforce
Ah, NES saturation! Seriously though, it looks very faithful to the style, though I would consider desaturating the colours a bit. You might also want to make the water a solid blue, as the white lines really hurt my eyes to look at.
@shortstar
Those are some very high quality maps. As stardust and SorceressKyrsty have recommended, I would vary the ground patches and the trees a bit, and perhaps add a few more curves to the cliffs as well. It is fine the way it is though.
My turn. I took the plunge and decided to change up my world map into a menu system:
What's this? Lucidstillness made a menu world map after raving about how great old school RPG maps were? Well, I decided that for the game I was working on now, regions were more important than connecting everything together. Instead of there being a ton of areas to explore, there are a number of larger areas to explore, so this system really makes more sense.
Once an accessible area is selected, the player is transported to that specific region, which will have it's own sub areas (usually a few towns and dungeons). This keeps things nice and simple, and avoids the problem of gigantic spaces on a map. The interface itself isn't finished, but you can see where I'm going with this.
The map itself is a kind of a painted relief style, sort of like if a Renaissance painter had access to satellite imagery, lol. You can also see my new menu skin in this pic, complete with a new font (well, Tahoma).
Thanks! You're right about the center of balance. I think I'll put her right leg out a bit to compensate for that, though I'll probably only ever be using the top half since it's a conversation portrait. (This is what I get for working with rough sketches first, lol.)
@Felipe_9595
The lighting effects are really fantastic. The only thing that seems a little off is that the tops of the furniture look to be of a different shade and texture than the rest.
@Deacon Batista
WAY too mighty! The mapping is good as always. The only thing that is a bit weird is how different the colour of the tree in the foreground is from the rest of the foliage. A pretty minor quibble though.
@stardust
the mist effect is very nice, and I'd like to see it animated. I think it would look even better if you found a way to blend the sides of the mountains more seamlessly into the fog, so it is harder to tell where the map ends and the panorama begins.
@facesforce
Ah, NES saturation! Seriously though, it looks very faithful to the style, though I would consider desaturating the colours a bit. You might also want to make the water a solid blue, as the white lines really hurt my eyes to look at.
@shortstar
Those are some very high quality maps. As stardust and SorceressKyrsty have recommended, I would vary the ground patches and the trees a bit, and perhaps add a few more curves to the cliffs as well. It is fine the way it is though.
My turn. I took the plunge and decided to change up my world map into a menu system:
What's this? Lucidstillness made a menu world map after raving about how great old school RPG maps were? Well, I decided that for the game I was working on now, regions were more important than connecting everything together. Instead of there being a ton of areas to explore, there are a number of larger areas to explore, so this system really makes more sense.
Once an accessible area is selected, the player is transported to that specific region, which will have it's own sub areas (usually a few towns and dungeons). This keeps things nice and simple, and avoids the problem of gigantic spaces on a map. The interface itself isn't finished, but you can see where I'm going with this.
The map itself is a kind of a painted relief style, sort of like if a Renaissance painter had access to satellite imagery, lol. You can also see my new menu skin in this pic, complete with a new font (well, Tahoma).
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