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Forum D&D Game (UPDATED: Finalized Details) JOIN NOW!
So if anyone's been following Game Design and Theory lately, Dungeons and Dragons keeps coming up as examples to follow for video game RPGs. Maybe it's just that Fourth Edition just came out....or maybe it's because we're a bunch of meganerds.
So anyway, my fellow meganerds, it brings up the question: why haven't we started a forum DnD game? Not only are there apparently those among us who love PnP RPGs, but there's also a lot for non PnP'ers to learn about RPG theory in general.
So what's say we run a game? I'm not sure of the logistics and how it needs to be handled (I'm not a big fan of Play by Post, but I don't mind IRCing it up. There are other options available, though, like OpenRPG and probably some sort of voodoo using Ventrilo or Skype that anyone with experience can throw in), but I'm more than willing to do my part. I'll play Dungeon Master if no one else will, though I don't insist on that role just because I broached the subject--if anything I'd like to play.
So, discussion in this thread about how to set up a game, which version to run (I'm partial to 4th just because I haven't had a chance to play it yet, but it might be easier to throw together a 3.5 game), and what tools we'll be using to play. Assuming anyone's even interested. I'll take a lack of responses to mean "Oh, Shadowtext, you nerdy, nerdy person! Don't you know that the rest of us have lives?!"
(Also, let's keep it to Dungeons and Dragons for this first game because it's the best-known of PnP games, and therefore easiest to obtain. If it goes well I'd be more than willing to explore the option of a PnP Club type dealie for holding the same sort of thing using whatever different systems the players/DMs want).
UPDATE:
I have posted the finlized details for joining the campaign and making your characters. The post can be found here: Finalized Details
So anyway, my fellow meganerds, it brings up the question: why haven't we started a forum DnD game? Not only are there apparently those among us who love PnP RPGs, but there's also a lot for non PnP'ers to learn about RPG theory in general.
So what's say we run a game? I'm not sure of the logistics and how it needs to be handled (I'm not a big fan of Play by Post, but I don't mind IRCing it up. There are other options available, though, like OpenRPG and probably some sort of voodoo using Ventrilo or Skype that anyone with experience can throw in), but I'm more than willing to do my part. I'll play Dungeon Master if no one else will, though I don't insist on that role just because I broached the subject--if anything I'd like to play.
So, discussion in this thread about how to set up a game, which version to run (I'm partial to 4th just because I haven't had a chance to play it yet, but it might be easier to throw together a 3.5 game), and what tools we'll be using to play. Assuming anyone's even interested. I'll take a lack of responses to mean "Oh, Shadowtext, you nerdy, nerdy person! Don't you know that the rest of us have lives?!"
(Also, let's keep it to Dungeons and Dragons for this first game because it's the best-known of PnP games, and therefore easiest to obtain. If it goes well I'd be more than willing to explore the option of a PnP Club type dealie for holding the same sort of thing using whatever different systems the players/DMs want).
UPDATE:
I have posted the finlized details for joining the campaign and making your characters. The post can be found here: Finalized Details
Stat Differentiation
author=Jabbo link=topic=1329.msg20178#msg20178 date=1213568697This is where it's handy to look at Dungeons and Dragons. If you have a lot of monsters with a high Damage Reduction type of defense--which means "Any damage less than X is reduced to zero", not having a character who can dish out insane damage in a single attack would be a really bad idea....while for different enemies, not having a character with the ability to throw lots of tiny attacks would be crazy. Speedsters and even the well-balanced sort are fairly useless against a monster that can only be taken down by huge attacks.author=Shadowtext link=topic=1329.msg20165#msg20165 date=1213563679I guess what's I'm trying to say here is that when you combine the traditional speed yields more attacks setup with a choice of statistic gain, it is always better (assuming the stats are actually balanced properly) to approach middle ground.
For one thing, speedsters can use their turn for more than just attacking--they can also use items or abilities. It costs the damage-dealer a lot more to give up a turn than a speedster, because a speedster's only going to sacrifice a fraction of the damage-dealer's damage output to take an action other than attacking. You also get to throw accuracy and critical hits into the equation: more attacks means more chance to score a critical hit, or against an enemy who's really good at evading attacks, it means an extra chance to hit. Enemies with low HP but huge evasion are much better attacked by speedsters than damage-dealers.
Stat Differentiation
I think you're really underestimating the importance of how a game "feels," as opposed to what's actually happening. A character that attacks often but does less damage per attack and a character who attacks infrequently but for a lot of damage might have the same "damage per second," but they're going to feel quite different to players. And ultimately everything comes down to the player's experience. That comes before any other consideration in a game (other, perhaps, than "do I have the time/capability to implement that feature" or "does the budget support that?" But in a perfect world, those two wouldn't be considerations).
Ultimately every game is essentially just rolling dice against arbitrary target numbers, or else having the player guess at what the appropriate value for a variable is to hit a target. How it's executed makes all the difference in the world.
That said, there's no problem with coming up with ways to make the stats different in more ways than just how you dress them up. To give you an example, there's a much bigger difference between raw attack power and attack speed than you're giving credit, too, in an in-depth system.
For one thing, speedsters can use their turn for more than just attacking--they can also use items or abilities. It costs the damage-dealer a lot more to give up a turn than a speedster, because a speedster's only going to sacrifice a fraction of the damage-dealer's damage output to take an action other than attacking. You also get to throw accuracy and critical hits into the equation: more attacks means more chance to score a critical hit, or against an enemy who's really good at evading attacks, it means an extra chance to hit. Enemies with low HP but huge evasion are much better attacked by speedsters than damage-dealers.
Also, you keep throwing out arguments that are entirely valid like "low HP, high Defense benefits more from heal spells." How is that not a valid argument? It can have a huge effect on a player's strategy. Being able to use "Cure 1" spells to heal your tank means a lower overall MP drain on the Healer, freeing him up for other magic or just more healing. Even if the tank's the only one taking damage, one that can be fully cured with the weakest cure spells but still last as long between heals is going to last a lot longer than one who requires full cures at the same rate.
Essentially, it sounds like you would like to avoid gameplay depth. Fair enough--simplicity often leads to elegance. But it also alienates a fairly large swath of players. And since you seem to be talking about RPGs (since most of these are fairly RPG-specific stats), it's going to make up a pretty big portion of your audience.
Ultimately every game is essentially just rolling dice against arbitrary target numbers, or else having the player guess at what the appropriate value for a variable is to hit a target. How it's executed makes all the difference in the world.
That said, there's no problem with coming up with ways to make the stats different in more ways than just how you dress them up. To give you an example, there's a much bigger difference between raw attack power and attack speed than you're giving credit, too, in an in-depth system.
For one thing, speedsters can use their turn for more than just attacking--they can also use items or abilities. It costs the damage-dealer a lot more to give up a turn than a speedster, because a speedster's only going to sacrifice a fraction of the damage-dealer's damage output to take an action other than attacking. You also get to throw accuracy and critical hits into the equation: more attacks means more chance to score a critical hit, or against an enemy who's really good at evading attacks, it means an extra chance to hit. Enemies with low HP but huge evasion are much better attacked by speedsters than damage-dealers.
Also, you keep throwing out arguments that are entirely valid like "low HP, high Defense benefits more from heal spells." How is that not a valid argument? It can have a huge effect on a player's strategy. Being able to use "Cure 1" spells to heal your tank means a lower overall MP drain on the Healer, freeing him up for other magic or just more healing. Even if the tank's the only one taking damage, one that can be fully cured with the weakest cure spells but still last as long between heals is going to last a lot longer than one who requires full cures at the same rate.
Essentially, it sounds like you would like to avoid gameplay depth. Fair enough--simplicity often leads to elegance. But it also alienates a fairly large swath of players. And since you seem to be talking about RPGs (since most of these are fairly RPG-specific stats), it's going to make up a pretty big portion of your audience.
[EVERYONE READ] Posting, and the Main Site.
I've actually been holding back from posting on occasion....not because I think my opinions don't matter (actually, I tend to assume my opinions are more important than anyone else's. And I mean in the universe) but because often when I post it's some sort of argument....one which I take to be friendly but which my experiences at GW have shown me can be taken to quite serious and angry heights. And I don't want to see that kind of vitriol here, so I often bite my tongue. Only not literally because ow.
Also, like Dudesoft said. I start getting paranoid when I see my name listed as the Most Recent Post on too many threads at once.
Also, like Dudesoft said. I start getting paranoid when I see my name listed as the Most Recent Post on too many threads at once.
Classic television/movie lines!
Given that this is a forum full of nerds, I assume that I don't have to go through all the Monty Python and Army of Darkness quotes that belong on this page because we've already got them all memorized word-for-word, right?
Action Games in Rpgmaker
author=Tau link=topic=1315.msg19980#msg19980 date=1213403838Yes. But coding an action game is harder than coding an RPG because with RPGs, you can avoid having to code hit detection and physics systems. Even in a fairly simplistic action game, there's going to have to be some sort of calculus going on if you want any sort of believable motion to, for example, projectiles.
I think I can only really think of two successful action oriented Rpgmaker games. Those are Pokemon The Evil Inside 2 and The Chimera Report(2001 version). Now the purpose of this topic is to ask.. Is there really a way to make an action oriented game through Rpgmaker now with the enhancements of XP and VX? ???
Essentially you're going to have to do the same work in XP or VX that you would do in a normal programming language, except that the graphics rendering system would already be in place.
Also, and this is what held me up long enough to lose interest when I was trying it, modern action games can't get away with tile-based obstructions as easily as RPGs. Even platformers often need slopes, and overhead action-y-er games (like Zelda, Illusion of Gaia, Secret of Mana, etc.) tend to prefer obstructions based on....well I'm not sure, but I assume they're either vector-based obstructions or use hitboxes that vary per-object....either way this would require a database of obstructions that RPG Maker XP and (from what I've seen) VX don't have--this means either a custom database editor or hard coding it.
I'm not saying all this to discourage people from doing it necessarily, but it's not an easy thing to do and it'd be bad to go into this thinking it is. I haven't gotten to try out VX enough to know its resource-usage, but you'd probably be better off coding your own engine rather than using RMXP, just because chances are if you can handle all this stuff, you can also handle making a more efficient graphics engine. The only real benefit to sticking to RMXP with this sort of thing is the robust map editor--and that's assuming you're using tiles like RMXP's.
Also, there's always Sphere and ika, which might be better suited for this stuff.
High Power=Low Tier?
author=GreatRedSpirit link=topic=1189.msg19874#msg19874 date=1213326904I'm not that familiar with rogue rules, but wouldn't that also make them super-susceptible to Sneak Attack?
And then they're flatfooted by being prone, which makes them lose their Dex bonus to AC making them easier to hit
Because if so, having a tank that NOT ONLY stops the enemy from being able to attack your mages, but makes it so your Striker can STAB THE HELL OUT OF THEM is pretty sweet.
High Power=Low Tier?
It sort of relies on controlling character positions, but trying to get around a Fighter in Dungeons and Dragons provokes Attack of Opportunity, which is basically like a counterattack even though the fighter isn't actually attacked. Really you get AoOs in any class, but Fighters are some of the best at exploiting it, especially in fourth edition. It's a big part of what makes them the quintessential Defender (D&D 4's name for tanks).
That's an idea to explore: an ability that causes the tank to get a free attack if anyone other than himself (or maybe anyone other than himself and other tanks) is attacked. Though come to think, having TWO tanks in your party would probably be pretty devastating if they had any attack power to speak of if you did that. This also serves to make the old standby tactic of "Kill the squishy mages first" totally bad news.
Also, look at Celes's Runic command in FF6, which made her essentially an anti-magic tank. I mean okay, in that case it's actually pretty useless for most of the game because it interferes with your own magic (and you're wasting a turn Celes could be using to kill things), but the concept is another starting point for Tank-type abilities.
That's an idea to explore: an ability that causes the tank to get a free attack if anyone other than himself (or maybe anyone other than himself and other tanks) is attacked. Though come to think, having TWO tanks in your party would probably be pretty devastating if they had any attack power to speak of if you did that. This also serves to make the old standby tactic of "Kill the squishy mages first" totally bad news.
Also, look at Celes's Runic command in FF6, which made her essentially an anti-magic tank. I mean okay, in that case it's actually pretty useless for most of the game because it interferes with your own magic (and you're wasting a turn Celes could be using to kill things), but the concept is another starting point for Tank-type abilities.
Obama is the democratic Nominee. Hurray.
author=Erave link=topic=1254.msg19328#msg19328 date=1212900350More like:author=harmonic link=topic=1254.msg19297#msg19297 date=1212862364
Good point, ST.
We need an internet voting system or something. Then Obama would win 99 to 1.
Press F5 and vote again!
Barack Obama 1,089,768,789 votes
John McCain 153
John McCain: 45,056
Barack Obama: 60,625
Stephen Colbert: 926,116,355
Chuck Norris: 1,255,963,192
...and the darkhorse victor:
Batman: 999,999,999,999
The end of cheap oil. How will you adapt?
author=warmadii link=topic=1281.msg19475#msg19475 date=1213032032Hemp is cannabis. It can also refer to the fibers taken from cannabis or textiles and suchlike made with those fibers. It's a different variety than the cannabis used for marijuana and has a very low THC content, but is still under tight governmental controls because laws are written by old people who get their drug facts from movies like Reefer Madness.author=ankylo link=topic=1281.msg19474#msg19474 date=1213029760
my wallet is made of hemp.
what exactly is hemp?
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