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Random Number Generation: The death of the Critical Hit
author=Craze
I made a topic about this once. I think this is a good use of the Luck stat - actual luck. In general, people thought that this was stupid and cheating and bad design and stupid and bad and stuff. Did not go over well.
Earthbound's GUTS stat did essentially the same thing, to amazing effect.
To those who haven't played, Guts would increase the chance of SMASH hits (criticals) but also would give you a chance when hit by a fatal attack to hang on with 1 HP left. It was such a cool mechanic - when it happened, you always felt amazingly relieved.
Random Number Generation: The death of the Critical Hit
Favourite (Non-RPG) Boss Music
Which prominent RMN'er are you?
Congratulations! You are Mog!
Your life is very hard as it takes a lot of work to be this important.
Your life is very hard as it takes a lot of work to be this important.
Favourite (Non-RPG) Boss Music
/doesn't know how to embed
Super Meat Boy - The Battle of L'il Slugger
Oh god, Streets of Rage and Sonic brought back some great memories
Super Meat Boy - The Battle of L'il Slugger
Oh god, Streets of Rage and Sonic brought back some great memories
What are you thinking about right now?
author=uh
Even assuming that it's always faked in pornography, you'd think a country surrounded by so many species of stinging jellyfish would be more progressive about people peeing on each other
i don't see the connection at all but i burst out laughing at this
Random Number Generation: The death of the Critical Hit
Max, half your post isn't showing up and I only know cuz I tried to quote it.
I actually thought about bringing this up in my main post but I was already ranting too much as it is.Take a game like the original Mario Bros (or for a modern example, Super Meat Boy). You have to land on a single platform surrounded on both sides by lava. To land on it, you have to hold Right for exactly 1.45 seconds. Maybe there's ~.2 second leeway for the length of the platform, although if you've played I Wanna Be The Guy (fuck that shit) then it might not even be that much.
It's not like the average player is going to time how long he holds Right. There'd be no point anyway, since the necessary length is hidden from him (and likely the developer in this case). Instead he's going to make the jump, try to predict the length as best he can, and probably die a few times.
While this whole exercise has no random elements, it does take the average player a bit of luck to get right. Because certain information is withheld from the player, psuedo-luck becomes involved. And god forbid you sneeze. Actually, I bet you could boil down the probability of a sneeze to the exact second, but if you ask anyone on the street they'll say it's random (or that you have a cold).
Trying to think of this crap while I'm sick is screwing with my head, lol. I don't even know how this relates to the topic but it sure sounds like it does.
Oh yea, I've DM'd a couple times and if the players are failing hard, giving them a quick, lucky turnaround makes the victory extremely awesome. This is usually because I didn't balance well in the first place :P It would be a lot of fun to see it in a video game though - super hard boss battles would become awesome as hell.
Yes, but all those genres include (at least for players who aren't uber-experienced) pseudo-random factors or factors that are indistinguishable from the random for most human players.
I actually thought about bringing this up in my main post but I was already ranting too much as it is.Take a game like the original Mario Bros (or for a modern example, Super Meat Boy). You have to land on a single platform surrounded on both sides by lava. To land on it, you have to hold Right for exactly 1.45 seconds. Maybe there's ~.2 second leeway for the length of the platform, although if you've played I Wanna Be The Guy (fuck that shit) then it might not even be that much.
It's not like the average player is going to time how long he holds Right. There'd be no point anyway, since the necessary length is hidden from him (and likely the developer in this case). Instead he's going to make the jump, try to predict the length as best he can, and probably die a few times.
While this whole exercise has no random elements, it does take the average player a bit of luck to get right. Because certain information is withheld from the player, psuedo-luck becomes involved. And god forbid you sneeze. Actually, I bet you could boil down the probability of a sneeze to the exact second, but if you ask anyone on the street they'll say it's random (or that you have a cold).
Trying to think of this crap while I'm sick is screwing with my head, lol. I don't even know how this relates to the topic but it sure sounds like it does.
As I am a tabletop GM, I do this shit all the time. As long as the player doesn't know and you use it sparingly, it's awesome. It would be tricky to simulate this in a videogame, since at the gaming table it relies on human judgement, but I think it could be done.
Oh yea, I've DM'd a couple times and if the players are failing hard, giving them a quick, lucky turnaround makes the victory extremely awesome. This is usually because I didn't balance well in the first place :P It would be a lot of fun to see it in a video game though - super hard boss battles would become awesome as hell.
Random Number Generation: The death of the Critical Hit
author=rabitZ
well, I guess it depends.
As Feldschlacht pointed out, the luck factor is cool.
Personally, what made it even cooler for me about criticals in some games is the "flashy and spectacular" associated with them. I specifically remember Fire Emblem 4 for the SNES and how awesome the battle animations for the critical hits were just plain awesome (a trend that continues in the series).
Also, unless I'm mistaken, in that game there were skills and weapons that influenced the probability of critical strikes, so... there was some strategy to them, albeit limited.
So, in theory, there could be ways to tie critical hits and RNG-affected stuff with player actions to some degree.
EDIT: What I was thinking as I wrote this is: yeah, default RPG Maker "Critical Hits" in the DBS are probably boring... some sprucing them up certainly can't cause any harm.
Golden Sun had Weapon Unleashes, where a special animation would show and yo'd get a critical hit with a bonus effect, which was always fun.
I do like the idea of critical hits with some user control - such as a spell that raises your Crit so high that it's almost guaranteed, or a critical hit after pulling off a sweet combo.
Its not that I don't like critical hits, just that it always sucks seeing the negative side of chance. Once in a while in Pokemon or something your guy will miss 3 or 4 attacks in a row and die - but since you can save anywhere and the only "bosses" are 20 steps away from the Inn, it's not a problem. If you get to a boss in a Final Fantasy game 10 miles from a save point and his first two attacks are critical AoEs (or you just Miss! constantly) and you have to start all the way from the friggin' save point it can be a game-killer.
Mid-post I thought of an idea: The worst part of chance is the unlucky streak we all face once in a while. What if the game had a rigged number system, where it would never completely screw you over with chance? Example:
-It keeps crits fairly rare, but you'll get them once in a while on regular mobs, and if you ever get to a situation where you and a boss are extremely low, your crit chance doubles, or triples, or whatever. It wouldn't happen every time, but if you got a kill like that on occasion (maybe once a playthrough) it would feel pretty good.
-Or, maybe it just reduces the chance a boss will dodge seven attacks in a row and drop you easy.
This can be boiled down to faking chance in the eyes of the player, maintaining the good aspect (lucky crits to win fights) while downplaying the bad (unlucky dodge streaks less common). How do people feel about "cheating" the player's luck in this way? Keep in mind that this system would be completely hidden from the player - but people could possibly get together and figure out it existed.
(Oh, and when impressing girls I usually focus on their elemental weaknessess.)
Random Number Generation: The death of the Critical Hit
I admittedly took a hardline approach to the topic, but I wanted to get the point across. You are right, it is always a nice feeling to see some huge numbers once in a while (especially in dire situations).
Maybe it's just because I have a fondness for online games - when you play against other people and not AI, it sucks to feel like you got cheated by the computer :/
Maybe it's just because I have a fondness for online games - when you play against other people and not AI, it sucks to feel like you got cheated by the computer :/
Random Number Generation: The death of the Critical Hit
Critical! Dodge! Miss!
These are all words we associate with the common RPG battle. But do they create fun for the player, or do they reduce every boss battle to the player's prayers for a string of lucky crits? Numbers generated by the system are unpredictable and completely disassociated with the player's skill. Does this reduce the game's fun?
While RPGs probably rely more on RNG than any other game, randomness can be found in any genre. Anyone who's played Tetris knows the feeling of praying for the point-giving "I" tetronimo. If you've played Call of Duty, you may notice the rare instance when your bullets spread everywhere except for where you meant to hit.
Critical hits were created in tabletop RPGs to recreate an accidental lucky strike in combat (like hitting the weak spot in an opponent's armor). Rolling a 20 on the die rewarded the player with extra damage.
But how is that a reward? What did the player do to earn that 20? It's like putting a 20 dollar bill in one of several cupcakes and handing them out - it's fun and nice and exciting if you get it, but it's sure as hell not because of anything the player did. And what about the other 19 times you roll the die? Does that mean you are punished for not rolling a 20? God forbid we allow the enemies to get 20s too!
What if you take two friends and put them up against a typical RPG boss? One uses deductive reasoning to figure out that he's weak to Fire, and the other just dies over and over again until he gets a few critical hits on his special attacks and wins. The first friend's intelligent strategy was as successful as dumb luck was. While this is representative of real life (where the possibility that one friend earned his millions and the other friend won the lottery) do we really want to reproduce it in video games?
My point is that random elements like Critical Hits detract from a game as a whole. They are a cheap and easy way to give a player a good feeling based on good luck - but the feeling created by the success of hard work and intelligence is deeper and more satisfying.
How do people feel about RNG (Random Number Generation) in games?
These are all words we associate with the common RPG battle. But do they create fun for the player, or do they reduce every boss battle to the player's prayers for a string of lucky crits? Numbers generated by the system are unpredictable and completely disassociated with the player's skill. Does this reduce the game's fun?
While RPGs probably rely more on RNG than any other game, randomness can be found in any genre. Anyone who's played Tetris knows the feeling of praying for the point-giving "I" tetronimo. If you've played Call of Duty, you may notice the rare instance when your bullets spread everywhere except for where you meant to hit.
Critical hits were created in tabletop RPGs to recreate an accidental lucky strike in combat (like hitting the weak spot in an opponent's armor). Rolling a 20 on the die rewarded the player with extra damage.
But how is that a reward? What did the player do to earn that 20? It's like putting a 20 dollar bill in one of several cupcakes and handing them out - it's fun and nice and exciting if you get it, but it's sure as hell not because of anything the player did. And what about the other 19 times you roll the die? Does that mean you are punished for not rolling a 20? God forbid we allow the enemies to get 20s too!
What if you take two friends and put them up against a typical RPG boss? One uses deductive reasoning to figure out that he's weak to Fire, and the other just dies over and over again until he gets a few critical hits on his special attacks and wins. The first friend's intelligent strategy was as successful as dumb luck was. While this is representative of real life (where the possibility that one friend earned his millions and the other friend won the lottery) do we really want to reproduce it in video games?
My point is that random elements like Critical Hits detract from a game as a whole. They are a cheap and easy way to give a player a good feeling based on good luck - but the feeling created by the success of hard work and intelligence is deeper and more satisfying.
How do people feel about RNG (Random Number Generation) in games?














