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WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW?
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MadJak91
30
MadJak91
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CloseYou can at last read this on the wiki.
EDIT: Huh. Cannot link to it that way so just google "ffx novel".
I have read that a while back but it seems to me like they started screwing up with established lore way too much in whatever fashion the author wanted and added shock value.
I think it is a mess.
EDIT: Huh. Cannot link to it that way so just google "ffx novel".
I have read that a while back but it seems to me like they started screwing up with established lore way too much in whatever fashion the author wanted and added shock value.
I think it is a mess.
Took some doing, but, I think this link might work for what MadJak is talking about.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=Kaliesto
Far as I can tell that apparently bringing Tidus back is also bringing Sin back. It was actually never told how Sin was born other than it was the result of that war, but something tells me there was more to it.
Sin was a summon spell, created by Yu Yevon. It was formed from fayth, just like all the other summon spells. Except while most of the fayth are individual people who sacrificed their lives willingly to become fayth, Yu Yevon forcibly converted tens of thousands of people in Zanarkand into fayth, killing them in the process, and converted them all into one giant summon spell against their will. This summon spell was Sin. Yu Yevon also used a bunch of these sacrificed fayth to create the summon of Dream Zanarkand, in order to preserve the memory of his destroyed city, and he ordered Sin to defend it from enemy machina.
However, presumably because he was using the fayth against their will, or possibly just because he used too many at once, Yu Yevon was unable to control Sin after summoning it. Sin absorbed him, and he became merely a husk, trapped inside of Sin's body. Because of the order he gave Sin - "Protect Dream Zanarkand from enemy machina" - Sin rampaged across the world, destroying all machina, including what was left of the real Zanarkand. Sin kept Yu Yevon's husk alive for a thousand years and forced him to continuously summon it. He was also continuously summoning Dream Zanarkand, which included Tidus.
Yu Yevon is killed at the end of FF10. When he died, he stopped summoning both spells, Sin and Dream Zanarkand. However they're just summon spells. There's no particular reason one or the other couldn't be summoned again by a new summoner. I guess it's possible that, as Kaliesto is suggesting, they were actually both a single summon spell, and can't be separated, but I don't see anything suggesting this in the source material.
This info is pieced together from dialogue in the game and from the various novellas. I know more about this than I should since I recently spent several days researching it for UOSSMUD.
author=KaliestoThe scene that it comes from is fine. In context it was dumb and awkward on purpose and the scene kinda worked. But as a standalone sound byte it's just a wonderful and perfect parody of Tidus. Hating Tidus's voice is really enjoyable, and the Tidus Laugh is the perfect language to express that hate in.
I don't get why Tidus' laugh is considered that bad since that was the point of the scene between Tidus & Yuna during that moment, and even the characters went wtf, and it was a pretty funny/awkward scene.
this is one of those times where lockez nails it
Except I don't remember the citizens of Zanarkand being forced against their will to become fayths. Didn't they elect to do so consensually as a last ditch effort against Bevelle?
Except I don't remember the citizens of Zanarkand being forced against their will to become fayths. Didn't they elect to do so consensually as a last ditch effort against Bevelle?
Jeroen_SolLockeZEven better than Aerith with Tidus' Laugh
Let's get back to what we all agree really matters:
The FF6 opera with the singing replaced with Tidus's laugh.
Dancing Mad with Tidus' Laugh is also splendid, but I'm a bit peeved they didn't change Kefka's laugh into the full Tidus laugh. Then it would have been perfect.
as the president of the fan afficiando delux fan club xvi i have to inform you that aerith theme tidusmidi has already been sharn in this treadh
here have some rarer tidusmizzzz
there's more where that came from <___>
edit: bonus ubon theme
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=LockeZauthor=KaliestoSin was a summon spell, created by Yu Yevon. It was formed from fayth, just like all the other summon spells. Except while most of the fayth are individual people who sacrificed their lives willingly to become fayth, Yu Yevon forcibly converted tens of thousands of people in Zanarkand into fayth, killing them in the process, and converted them all into one giant summon spell against their will. This summon spell was Sin. Yu Yevon also used a bunch of these sacrificed fayth to create the summon of Dream Zanarkand, in order to preserve the memory of his destroyed city, and he ordered Sin to defend it from enemy machina.
Far as I can tell that apparently bringing Tidus back is also bringing Sin back. It was actually never told how Sin was born other than it was the result of that war, but something tells me there was more to it.
However, presumably because he was using the fayth against their will, or possibly just because he used too many at once, Yu Yevon was unable to control Sin after summoning it. Sin absorbed him, and he became merely a husk, trapped inside of Sin's body. Because of the order he gave Sin - "Protect Dream Zanarkand from enemy machina" - Sin rampaged across the world, destroying all machina, including what was left of the real Zanarkand. Sin kept Yu Yevon's husk alive for a thousand years and forced him to continuously summon it. He was also continuously summoning Dream Zanarkand, which included Tidus.
Yu Yevon is killed at the end of FF10. When he died, he stopped summoning both spells, Sin and Dream Zanarkand. However they're just summon spells. There's no particular reason one or the other couldn't be summoned again by a new summoner. I guess it's possible that, as Kaliesto is suggesting, they were actually both a single summon spell, and can't be separated, but I don't see anything suggesting this in the source material.
This info is pieced together from dialogue in the game and from the various novellas. I know more about this than I should since I recently spent several days researching it for UOSSMUD.
Thank you for finally putting this great mystery to rest. I thought the game was just some dumb point A to point B thing with Final Fantasy slapped on the cover. What you didn't explain, however, was where Jecht and Tidus play into this and why Sin appears in Dream Zanarkand (and utterly destroys it) along with Auron to pull Tidus into the land of Spira and how a living dream exists outside of its own realm.
If it weren't for the fact that they needed a great mystery and a heartbreaking ending to Final Fantasy X to set it apart from the rest of the series (and found it in Tidus and his bitch ass relationship with his father), I'd no longer have problems with it. Tidus is literally the only loose thread this theory doesn't explain and he's the most pivotal point of the entire game as it relates to why the entire group is doing what they're doing.
If it weren't for Tidus, Yuna would've completed her pilgrimage, sacrificed herself to the false god Yu Yevon and become just another pyrefly for Sin's resurrection. Sun rise, sun set. It also goes without saying that Yu Yevon had no reason to reveal himself to the party and could've left them floating in the nothingness inside of Sin, but, as everyone who's ever played an RPG knows, the villain has to do two incredibly foolish things before the credits roll:
1. Reveal every last detail of their master plan weeks/months/years before following through with it, giving the heroes adequate time to foil them at every turn.
2. Lower itself down to a state and a location where the heroes can chip away at its million HP and render it utterly destroyed.
Sin is a summon, true, but Dream Zanarkand is a memory, Sin's memory. The people that make up Sin are that memory.
As I understand it, even the fayth that the party visits are a part of Yu Yevon's summoning of Dream Zanarkand. Hell, there's enough scenes with Bahamut's fayth and Tidus for me to believe that Tidus' entire existence is part of whatever role Bahamut's fayth had in retaining the dream.
This is mostly a wild theory on my part, though. It does not explain how either Jecht or Tidus could exist in Spira in the first place. Unless they have similar properties as unsent while in Spira?
*Edit: At the end of FF10, pyreflies come out of Tidus. His memory is being "sent", as it were. How they appear from him is very similar to how the various unsent of the game can seem to create pyrefiles at will. The correlation between the two could be just another wild theory, though.
This is mostly a wild theory on my part, though. It does not explain how either Jecht or Tidus could exist in Spira in the first place. Unless they have similar properties as unsent while in Spira?
*Edit: At the end of FF10, pyreflies come out of Tidus. His memory is being "sent", as it were. How they appear from him is very similar to how the various unsent of the game can seem to create pyrefiles at will. The correlation between the two could be just another wild theory, though.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=pianotmYou're not wrong, but it's also a summon spell. Dream Zanarkand is a summon spell based on the memory of the citizens of Real Zanarkand who were turned into fayth to summon it.
Sin is a summon, true, but Dream Zanarkand is a memory, Sin's memory. The people that make up Sin are that memory.
author=Corfaisus
What you didn't explain, however, was where Jecht and Tidus play into this and why Sin appears in Dream Zanarkand (and utterly destroys it) along with Auron to pull Tidus into the land of Spira and how a living dream exists outside of its own realm.
When I say Dream Zanarkand is a summon spell, I mean it. It works like any other summon spell - it appears in our world and stays there until the summoner ends the summon spell. Just like Valefor and Ifrit and Bahamut appear in the world when they're summoned, Dream Zanarkand does too. Despite its name, it's out in the middle of the ocean, not in a literal dream - it's called that because summon spells are created from the dreams of the fayth. It was originally planned to be a visitable location in FFX, but was cut, probably for budget reasons. Sin stayed near this location sometimes to keep an eye on Dream Zanarkand, because that was Sin's primary mission: protect Dream Zanarkand from enemy machina.
Jecht was on a boat in the waters outside of Dream Zanarkand training one day when he got too close to Spira, and encountered Sin. According to the fayth of Ifrit, Sin swam in these waters to ease its pain on that day; as Jecht touched him, he was carried by Sin across the ocean, washing ashore somewhere near Bevelle. After arriving in Spira he eventually became a guardian for Yuna's father, the high summoner Braska. Braska's other guardian was Auron.
After becoming Braska's Final Aeon, Jecht defeated Sin and became a part of it, like all the other final aeons before him. But because he wasn't a real person, he was a summon spell, he interacted with Sin differently than all those that came before. His will began to influence Sin; he was able to control Sin for brief amounts of time. Sin located Dream Zanarkand, and brought Auron there to look after his son. But after several years - and it's not clear whether Jecht lost control of Sin or did this intentionally - Sin began attacking Dream Zanarkand, and sucked up Tidus and Auron. They were taken to Spira, like Jecht had been ten years earlier.
That's where the game starts.
author=MarrendPyreflies also come out of Yuna's summon spells when she dismisses them.
At the end of FF10, pyreflies come out of Tidus. His memory is being "sent", as it were. How they appear from him is very similar to how the various unsent of the game can seem to create pyrefiles at will. The correlation between the two could be just another wild theory, though.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
Oh, so Dream Zanarkand is essentially Koholint Island and Sin is the Wind Fish. In that case, you can keep your Blitzball, I'll just play Zelda.
"HA HA HA HA HA"
One final question, though: as Tidus is essentially a summon and the summons are made up of pyreflies, each one being the soul of a person who lived in Spira, what kind of people is Tidus made of? Does it ever say?
"HA HA HA HA HA"
One final question, though: as Tidus is essentially a summon and the summons are made up of pyreflies, each one being the soul of a person who lived in Spira, what kind of people is Tidus made of? Does it ever say?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
No, they never make any particular correlation between any one specific person's soul and any one person in the Zanarkand summon.
The similarity to Link's Awakening can't be accidental. I wonder if there's some mythological story about a whale and a dream world that they're both based on.
The similarity to Link's Awakening can't be accidental. I wonder if there's some mythological story about a whale and a dream world that they're both based on.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
The only thing that even remotely comes to mind is the World Turtle of Chinese mythology, carrying the world on top of four elephants on its back (which is sort of like how Sin has that castle/city thing growing out of its back). Although the coloration and design of the Wind Fish looks a bit Hindu.
Please note the decorative headdress (a sign of sovereignty, usually divine), sash and jewels.
This was the prime result I got from Googling Hindu fish god.
"Matsya the Fish appeared in the Satya Yuga and represents beginning of life."
Perhaps the fact that the Wind Fish is resting inside an egg (the beginning of life) might allude to its origin?
Please note the decorative headdress (a sign of sovereignty, usually divine), sash and jewels.
This was the prime result I got from Googling Hindu fish god.
"Matsya the Fish appeared in the Satya Yuga and represents beginning of life."
Perhaps the fact that the Wind Fish is resting inside an egg (the beginning of life) might allude to its origin?
Is Shuyin actually related to Tidus in any way? It's been forever. I know the connection between Yuna and Lenne was through the Songstress crystal, so maybe not.
also you're forgetting the most important whale
(warning: hentai elsewhere on the site)
http://alicesoft.wikia.com/wiki/Ludo-Rathowm
also you're forgetting the most important whale
(warning: hentai elsewhere on the site)
http://alicesoft.wikia.com/wiki/Ludo-Rathowm
At the core, Ludo-Rathowm is mischievous, he takes comfort in negative feelings such as sorrow and heartbreak, often tipping events on the Continent in that direction.
He sees the world as nothing more than a theatre for his entertainment, describing it to Planner as a "Superb Comedic Tragedy". The reason he asked for monsters to be created was to inject drama into his world. He finds suffering, hatred, and sadness comforting, and likes death and destruction due to its nature to create negative emotions. He finds entertainment in tragedy and chaos, and likes to keep his world that way.
He has a particular dislike for Dragons, as they brought peace and co-operation to his world. He also thinks that Humans are the best Protagonist Race to date, as they are sturdy enough to defend themselves, but squishy enough to die in an assortment of horrible ways.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Shuyin is just some dude who lived in Zanarkand a thousand years ago, and died on the front lines in Bevelle. He looks like Tidus only by pure chance.
Since the original Zanarkand was the model for everything in Dream Zanarkand, its inhabitants were also modeled off of real people, so at one point in the past there may have been a summoned copy of Shuyin living in Dream Zanarkand. However, he would have "died" of old age a thousand years ago. The inhabitants of Dream Zanarkand are able to marry one another and have children, continuing the cycle of life, so it's plausible that Tidus is a descendant of Dream Zanarkand's Shuyin, but that's pure speculation. Neither the game nor any of the written materials ever attempt to establish any link between the two characters.
I feel like at one point in development they probably planned to have a link and then they realized it created a bunch of plot holes and dropped it.
Since the original Zanarkand was the model for everything in Dream Zanarkand, its inhabitants were also modeled off of real people, so at one point in the past there may have been a summoned copy of Shuyin living in Dream Zanarkand. However, he would have "died" of old age a thousand years ago. The inhabitants of Dream Zanarkand are able to marry one another and have children, continuing the cycle of life, so it's plausible that Tidus is a descendant of Dream Zanarkand's Shuyin, but that's pure speculation. Neither the game nor any of the written materials ever attempt to establish any link between the two characters.
I feel like at one point in development they probably planned to have a link and then they realized it created a bunch of plot holes and dropped it.
As a total FFX nerd, I corroborate everything LockeZ as correct. What's important to empahasize (and I shall repeat, as LockeZ said), Dream Zanarkand (and all of its citizens, such as Tidus/Jecht) is not a literal dream, and is, or rather, was a real, physical location in Spira. The name 'Dream Zanarkand' isn't even an official name, it was one given by the fans, and a more accurate name would be 'False Zanarkand' or 'Summon Zanarkand'. Tidus and Jecht aren't metaphysical concepts made real. They've always been as much as a physical object as anything else, they just lived in DZ, all the way out in the ocean.
The city exists(ed) out in the far oceans of Spira, unknown to everyone else, and when Tidus got sucked out by Sin in the beginning of the game, he didn't "materialize" in Spira, he just teleported, and in fact, the main reason why Rikku and co. find him near Baaj Temple in the that ocean is because DZ is near that location! Sin attacks anything that gets close (and sure enough, did attack the Al Bhed vessel that Tidus was on), which is one of the main reasons why no one has found it yet.
The city exists(ed) out in the far oceans of Spira, unknown to everyone else, and when Tidus got sucked out by Sin in the beginning of the game, he didn't "materialize" in Spira, he just teleported, and in fact, the main reason why Rikku and co. find him near Baaj Temple in the that ocean is because DZ is near that location! Sin attacks anything that gets close (and sure enough, did attack the Al Bhed vessel that Tidus was on), which is one of the main reasons why no one has found it yet.
do you guys know this just because you enjoy playing the game a lot, or because it's considered a top-tier rpg story (lol) and you've studied it? because while i like the idea of a long walk to your death (and have considered emulating it a few times), the actual backstory/reasoning has always sounded quite silly to me. i really appreciated ffx-2 (and have beat it twice, where i've never finished ffx past the calm lands for no reason other than boredom) because it decided to be silly and literally kill the weirdness of the first game (ghost-esper battles or w/e). the ~thousand years link~ is funny itself but "soul of past warrior in a crystal" is such a ff trope that it's graspable, as is "destroy giant robot potentially used by a cult". ffx-2 is just more honest, i guess, whereas ffx is a garbled mess of a backstory/setting.
i think brickroad put it best, and it's something i agree with (although i played them in reverse order, unlike him) -- ffx made him care about yuna, but ffx-2 made him care about spira. for all of its ~history and pyremagicsummons~, spira and the concept of zanarkand were so bleh to me in ffx.
also the sphere grid is bad but not as bad as ffxii's license grid so it has that going for it
edit: i'd also like to say that i can definitely respect ffx for being a leader in voice acting. as much as people mock it, it was a pioneer for 3d games and i can totally appreciate it for what it started. also ctbs since ffx are sick (ffx's is too bare-bones for me but still, thanks for introducing it ffx!)
i think brickroad put it best, and it's something i agree with (although i played them in reverse order, unlike him) -- ffx made him care about yuna, but ffx-2 made him care about spira. for all of its ~history and pyremagicsummons~, spira and the concept of zanarkand were so bleh to me in ffx.
edit: i'd also like to say that i can definitely respect ffx for being a leader in voice acting. as much as people mock it, it was a pioneer for 3d games and i can totally appreciate it for what it started. also ctbs since ffx are sick (ffx's is too bare-bones for me but still, thanks for introducing it ffx!)
Kaliesto
583
Thanks for the info Lockez, I half-completely forgot the backstory behind that thing. I really need to re-play the whole X-series again when I can.
author=Craze
do you guys know this just because you enjoy playing the game a lot, or because it's considered a top-tier rpg story (lol) and you've studied it? because while i like the idea of a long walk to your death (and have considered emulating it a few times), the actual backstory/reasoning has always sounded quite silly to me. i really appreciated ffx-2 (and have beat it twice, where i've never finished ffx past the calm lands for no reason other than boredom) because it decided to be silly and literally kill the weirdness of the first game (ghost-esper battles or w/e). the ~thousand years link~ is funny itself but "soul of past warrior in a crystal" is such a ff trope that it's graspable, as is "destroy giant robot potentially used by a cult". ffx-2 is just more honest, i guess, whereas ffx is a garbled mess of a backstory/setting.
I dunno, dude. I just like FFX.
FFX-2 has always been super fun for me, but the backstory for FFX is super interesting to me too. (I'll also always maintain that Yuna becoming a singer seems weird at first, but is not that big of a leap from summoner. :P)
The explanation this page was pretty enlightening though! O.o
The explanation this page was pretty enlightening though! O.o
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
