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SOOO... GAMERGATE
Posts
Nivlacart
1571
Nivlacart
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CloseWell, there have been people saying 'If people really want to discuss ethics in gaming journalism they should unite under a different hashtag' so there IS a demand for that.
But there's always the chance of misogynist Gamergaters using that hashtag as well just to further their means.
And that people already deep in the Gamergate debate for the right reasons not wanting to relinquish the hashtag to people who use it wrong because they know their cause is right and would hold strong to it.
What's this about #NotYourShield though? Was that an attempt at that?
But there's always the chance of misogynist Gamergaters using that hashtag as well just to further their means.
And that people already deep in the Gamergate debate for the right reasons not wanting to relinquish the hashtag to people who use it wrong because they know their cause is right and would hold strong to it.
What's this about #NotYourShield though? Was that an attempt at that?
It was basically a bunch of women (some of them hired) on the GG side of things who were basically saying "We're not going to be your reason for going against GG".
author=Corfaisus
What in the name of God are you on about? I mean, I appreciate you trying to play devil's advocate and everything, but these people have no point.
For once, I'm not bothering with any devil's advocate stuff on this. To be honest, I have been trying to stay relatively neutral and away from the matter. On a personal level, I had to cut 2 friends out of my life because of their cult like behavior in all of this, which frankly had me somewhat concerned for my own safety and well being.
Gamergate will eventually end. The matter lies in the who,when, how, and the aftermath. What I take issue with is that people try to paint this as some black and white thing, a holier than thou situation if you will. This is a war, a power struggle if you will, and on BOTH sides, you have men, women, PoC, and people with disabilities.
Say what you will about me, but I have no interest in being pro or anti gg. No matter where I look, I see problematic crap, that frankly isn't needed. Perhaps it was inevitable that it oozed into here as well, though I was hoping this place would have at least some chances of avoiding it. Perhaps I was too optimistic and put a bit too much faith in some people.
Shinan
4314
I love me some gamergate in the morning.
It's sad that this is over two months old now. I remember lauging at it on twitter during my vacation in August. And still it provides endless entertainment when I browse twitter before going to bed in the evening. Such conspiracy nuts.
It's sad that this is over two months old now. I remember lauging at it on twitter during my vacation in August. And still it provides endless entertainment when I browse twitter before going to bed in the evening. Such conspiracy nuts.
author=Zeigfried_McBacon
Thank you for proving my point and being a part of the problem.
I am very happy to be part of the "problem."
Things that have happened because of #GamerGate:
-An event where Anita Sarkeesian was scheduled to speak was cancelled because someone threatened to shoot up a school. According to CNN, the message included something to the effect of "feminists ruined my life and I will have my revenge." I can see this individual really cares about ethics in game journalism.
-Nude images of game developer Zoe Quinn were distributed across the internet in an attempt to "punish" her for something. I'm not sure what they're punishing her for, the rumor that she slept with a reviewer to get a high score for her game was started by her ex and has been demonstrated to not be true.
-Numerous female game designers and other women who speak out against GamerGate have had their personal information released to the internet so that people can harass them, their friends and family. When confronted on this, their response is to say that these women are releasing their own information and pretending to be harassed to get attention.
It is very disingenuous to claim that any part of this is about "ethics in game journalism" and no one should support #GamerGate for any reason.
EdgeOfChaos
1755
For anyone actually interested in reading up about it, here are some articles:
Viewpoint: the feminists are wrong, gamergate is right: http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/01/Lying-Greedy-Promiscuous-Feminist-Bullies-are-Tearing-the-Video-Game-Industry-Apart
Viewpoint: GamerGaters don't want threats, the threateners are a fringe who they don't support: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2014/10/25/While-the-Media-Slanders-Gamers-as-Terrorists-GamerGate-Is-Hunting-Trolls-and-Abusers
Viewpoint: Gamergate is wrong, it's a harassment front: http://archive.today/l1kTW
Viewpoint: Gamergate is for angry video game fans, no real cause, causes harm: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/16/of-gamers-gates-and-disco-demolition-the-roots-of-reactionary-rage.html
Both sides of the issue: http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/25/gamergate-an-issue-with-2-sides/
All interesting reads.
There's also the fact that so called "SJWs" (as much as I hate the term) have made real life threats before and doxed before. Especially feminists on tumblr. So I find it very hard to support either side in this fucked up situation.
Viewpoint: the feminists are wrong, gamergate is right: http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/01/Lying-Greedy-Promiscuous-Feminist-Bullies-are-Tearing-the-Video-Game-Industry-Apart
Viewpoint: GamerGaters don't want threats, the threateners are a fringe who they don't support: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2014/10/25/While-the-Media-Slanders-Gamers-as-Terrorists-GamerGate-Is-Hunting-Trolls-and-Abusers
Viewpoint: Gamergate is wrong, it's a harassment front: http://archive.today/l1kTW
Viewpoint: Gamergate is for angry video game fans, no real cause, causes harm: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/16/of-gamers-gates-and-disco-demolition-the-roots-of-reactionary-rage.html
Both sides of the issue: http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/25/gamergate-an-issue-with-2-sides/
All interesting reads.
author=LockeZLockeZ has it right. I think it's best to stay out of the entire thing...
This didn't end already? I didn't know there was anyone left who approved of either side of this clusterfuck.
There's also the fact that so called "SJWs" (as much as I hate the term) have made real life threats before and doxed before. Especially feminists on tumblr. So I find it very hard to support either side in this fucked up situation.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
It's pretty common for big arguments like this to have two sides that are really arguing about completely different, unrelated things. I guess it's just a matter of priorities. If one side thinks that truth in journalism is more important than human rights, and the other side thinks that privacy is more important than human rights, then of course they're going to fight like mad while ignoring each-others' civil rights.
(Disclaimer: I'm assuming both sides have done a bunch of fucked-up shit I don't even know about, because that's how this stuff always goes down. If one side was actually innocent, there'd be nothing controversial about it.)
(Disclaimer: I'm assuming both sides have done a bunch of fucked-up shit I don't even know about, because that's how this stuff always goes down. If one side was actually innocent, there'd be nothing controversial about it.)
Let's clear the air right here - of course both "sides" are made up of humans, of course both are going to have members that are assholes.
However, the whole Gamergate movement spawned from harassment and death threats targeting specific women that were perceived as a "threat to games and gamers". The fact it was later framed as an argument about ethics is a flimsy veil in a vain attempt to gain legitimacy. Gamergate spawned out of a place and hate and it consistently returned to that place throughout the last months. It has had a net negative effect on games, having attacked several people and institutions who had been fighting for ethics in games, the industry and journalism for years.
Even framing this as a two-sided "debate" is a damn embarrassment. There's a group of people who are attacking others under the guise of some seriously misguided morals, a lot of people confused by these actions, and everybody else trying to go on with their lives without being treated like utter shit. You can support ethics in the game industry without aligning yourself with assholes. People have been doing it for years.
Making fun of Gamergate isn't stereotyping, it's calling out a shitty, hate-filled movement for what it is.
However, the whole Gamergate movement spawned from harassment and death threats targeting specific women that were perceived as a "threat to games and gamers". The fact it was later framed as an argument about ethics is a flimsy veil in a vain attempt to gain legitimacy. Gamergate spawned out of a place and hate and it consistently returned to that place throughout the last months. It has had a net negative effect on games, having attacked several people and institutions who had been fighting for ethics in games, the industry and journalism for years.
Even framing this as a two-sided "debate" is a damn embarrassment. There's a group of people who are attacking others under the guise of some seriously misguided morals, a lot of people confused by these actions, and everybody else trying to go on with their lives without being treated like utter shit. You can support ethics in the game industry without aligning yourself with assholes. People have been doing it for years.
Making fun of Gamergate isn't stereotyping, it's calling out a shitty, hate-filled movement for what it is.
Pizza
Do we really need to have this topic? I thought we already sorted out how the community felt in the status Liberty just linked?
Pizza
Apparently nobody wants to just express fair views on gender or sexual equality through... making games? It's pathetic. Everyone just wants to shill ideas all over the place and act like a knight in shining armour instead of doing anything for the betterment of the fucking culture.
Express your views through gam mak, not through pointless "debate" and screaming, or making fun of "culture movements".
I don't know why this is so hard for people.
So, GamerGate started when some indie developer broad had sex with several videogame journalists so her game would get positive attention but her ex-boyfriend found out what she did and posted about it on the Internets, causing a huge shitstorm about the ethics of journalism.
Then the pooper-peeved journalists decided it would be a good idea to blame the audience themselves, calling them misogynists and whatnot (because we're totally dissing Zoe Quinn for having sex, not because she bribed journalists, amirite?)
That backfired, so in a ridiculous and a pathetic last ditch attempt to make themselves look redeemable, they published like a gazillion articles explaining how "the Gamer identity" and "Gamer culture" are dead, which means that gamers can no longer criticize journalists because gamers as an identity have ceased to exist like a fart in the Saharas.
Several fellows like JonTron and Anita Sarkeesian got also involved somehow. JonTron caused a shitstorm by using the word "retarded" even though that's probably one of the least offensive things he has ever said, and Anita Sarkeesian is just some boring broad who apparently talks about misogynism in videogames even though she doesn't even play videogames. An armada of deranged social justice warriors got also involved, writing many quality blog entries such as "Why seeing cleavage in a videogame gave me a panic attack."
In the middle of all this, Phil Fish cancelled Fez 2 but it's not like anyone gives a shit about him and his shitty game.
Is that how it went? Correct me if I'm wrong.
nope that's not how it went
Wrong. Reread the thread, it's been pointed out over and over that the boyfriend lied. She never got her game rated or reviewed by the journalist she dated. Her game isn't even on the site he works for. The ex-boyfriend lied and used ethics in games to deliberately attack her professional integrity and then spread personal information about her on the internet, resulting in her getting death and rape threats by assholes.
That is how it began and those who jumped on board for the sake of ethics are rather kidding themselves if they think gamergate is about that. The fact that women in the industry who have even mentioned GG have been threatened, doxxed and in fear of their lives (one of them had to move out of her house because people threatened to go and kill her in her own home) makes this about more than just 'ethics in journalism vis games'.
Both sides have their good and bad parties but one side has not threatened to rape and kill the other - going so far as to actually shut down a feminist meeting that was going to be held at a school by threatening to shoot up the school and any women they found inside it.
Oh, and there were apparently leaks from some of the 4chan private chatboards that show a lot of the gender persecution of specific industry women was deliberately set into motion by the ex-boyfriend. I'll see if I can find them tomorrow some time. It's late and I need sleep.
Frankly, I'm disgusted by the way both sides have acted in it but if I had to choose a side it would be the one where I wouldn't be welcomed by those who threaten rape and violence on people just for pointing out the truth. And honestly, no woman or man should.
That is how it began and those who jumped on board for the sake of ethics are rather kidding themselves if they think gamergate is about that. The fact that women in the industry who have even mentioned GG have been threatened, doxxed and in fear of their lives (one of them had to move out of her house because people threatened to go and kill her in her own home) makes this about more than just 'ethics in journalism vis games'.
Both sides have their good and bad parties but one side has not threatened to rape and kill the other - going so far as to actually shut down a feminist meeting that was going to be held at a school by threatening to shoot up the school and any women they found inside it.
Oh, and there were apparently leaks from some of the 4chan private chatboards that show a lot of the gender persecution of specific industry women was deliberately set into motion by the ex-boyfriend. I'll see if I can find them tomorrow some time. It's late and I need sleep.
Frankly, I'm disgusted by the way both sides have acted in it but if I had to choose a side it would be the one where I wouldn't be welcomed by those who threaten rape and violence on people just for pointing out the truth. And honestly, no woman or man should.
Oh. Well then.
I still have only two thirds of an idea of what the fuck is going on so I'm not going to pick any sides. Both sides sound just about equally despisable more or less anyway.
seriously though video game journalism has been a joke for several years now, even before gamergate. don't need no kotaku if you got totalbiscuit
I still have only two thirds of an idea of what the fuck is going on so I'm not going to pick any sides. Both sides sound just about equally despisable more or less anyway.
seriously though video game journalism has been a joke for several years now, even before gamergate. don't need no kotaku if you got totalbiscuit
author=Solitayreauthor=Zeigfried_McBaconI am very happy to be part of the "problem."
Thank you for proving my point and being a part of the problem.
It is very disingenuous to claim that any part of this is about "ethics in game journalism" and no one should support #GamerGate for any reason.
Because of time issues, I have to apologize for truncating a good deal of that post, Ill deal with those points when I can. For now, I will say this though about what you said; " I'm going to fight the doxxing, harassment, death threats of people by supporting people who... dox, harass and issue death threats." Does this give a slightly better understanding of why I take a position that isn't supposed to exist according to extremist? This is why, while not being gamergate, I cant take your side of it either. Well, there's more to it then that, but I can get into that another time.
author=slashphoenixSomething I try very hard to do, even if I am a bit of an asshole at times!
You can support ethics in the game industry without aligning yourself with assholes. People have been doing it for years.
Making fun of Gamergate isn't stereotyping, it's calling out a shitty, hate-filled movement for what it is.This basically comes off to me as "The shitty behavior of others justifies my shitty behavior." No one's perfect of course, but this kinda goes back to my holier than thou point.
Another thing folks, I have a strong distaste for breitbart, and I'm sure a lot of people can totally understand why.
Edit 2: And nulling said retraction since a concern of mine was sorted out. Sorry for the trouble.
Also, may I point out that no matter how much "You're either with us or against us" gets tossed at you, you can still just flip the bird and do your own thing. What do you think I'm doing?
On RMN we allow discourse and even disagreements, as long as it doesn't devolve into personal attacks and the like. So far the discussion has been okay. Let's just endeavour to keep it that way~ ^.^
"Retracting my gratitude since night owls post seems suspiciously edited. It's a wonder why we cant have nice things around here."
Yeah... by NightOwl. You do realise people can edit their own posts, right?
"Retracting my gratitude since night owls post seems suspiciously edited. It's a wonder why we cant have nice things around here."
Yeah... by NightOwl. You do realise people can edit their own posts, right?
ricifidi
30
There are 2 things that i don't understand, and hopefully someone may know the answers:
why has this lasted for so long? I mean, internet is popular for being flashy about stuff.
why people can't fight for gender equality & remove journalist corruption at the same time? isn't both a good cause and actually, in this forum, everyone seems to agree that both are problems that need to be dealt with?
why has this lasted for so long? I mean, internet is popular for being flashy about stuff.
why people can't fight for gender equality & remove journalist corruption at the same time? isn't both a good cause and actually, in this forum, everyone seems to agree that both are problems that need to be dealt with?
author=Zeigfried_McBaconauthor=SolitayreBecause of time issues, I have to apologize for truncating a good deal of that post, Ill deal with those points when I can. For now, I will say this though about what you said; " I'm going to fight the doxxing, harassment, death threats of people by supporting people who... dox, harass and issue death threats." Does this give a slightly better understanding of why I take a position that isn't supposed to exist according to extremist? This is why, while not being gamergate, I cant take your side of it either. Well, there's more to it then that, but I can get into that another time.author=Zeigfried_McBaconI am very happy to be part of the "problem."
Thank you for proving my point and being a part of the problem.
It is very disingenuous to claim that any part of this is about "ethics in game journalism" and no one should support #GamerGate for any reason.
I didn't say anything about the other side. You don't have to support them if you don't want to. I just want to be clear that GG is not about ethics and never was, and has never been anything other than a veil from which to attack women. Having to show "both sides" of an argument is the kind of false equivalency on which movements like this thrive.
I have no opinion on Zoe Quinn as a game designer, I've never played her game and almost assuredly never will. But it should be noted that Zoe Quinn as a human being is basically the raddest person ever.
Shinan
4314
author=Nightowl
seriously though video game journalism has been a joke for several years now, even before gamergate. don't need no kotaku if you got totalbiscuit
Video game journalism has always been a joke. In fact it's only in recent years that it has become better. Look back ten or more years and you see how every single magazine and/or site was sponsored by one of the big companies or devoted themselves exclusively to one format. ("Official Playstation Magazine" etc)
It's only in more recent years that people (even big sites) have brought up issues like all the free tours of game studios (and all that swag) and the different restrictive NDAs and the whole "preview" business that is nothing but towing the party line.
There are so many issues in games journalism. Someone giving GTA5 less than 10/10 because they didn't like its sexist approach or people covering interesting indie games and developers are not the issues.
The issues are stuff like youtube reviewers only getting review copies of Shadow of Mordor if their coverage is positive. (and the fact that this got out means the system sort of works)
Of course I also believe that there is a slight discrepancy between "gamers" and "critics". But I think this discrepancy is no larger than the one between "moviegoers" and "critics". How often do we not hear how shit the latest Adam Sandler or Michael Bay movie is. Yet people still enjoy them in droves. I don't think movie critics get harassed nearly as much though. So hopefully gamers will learn not to do it too.
author=ricifidi
There are 2 things that i don't understand, and hopefully someone may know the answers:
why has this lasted for so long? I mean, internet is popular for being flashy about stuff.
why people can't fight for gender equality & remove journalist corruption at the same time? isn't both a good cause and actually, in this forum, everyone seems to agree that both are problems that need to be dealt with?
Because men rule the world and are threatened whenever a woman shows any sign of thinking for herself. Then when they get called out, they make up an excuse for their behavior, such as, "This is really about ethics in journalism (even though that was a lark by a small dick man who was so threatened by his girlfriend's self-empowerment and confidence that he just had to do something to destroy her life)." It's been going on since the days of the Pharaohs (even though they answered to priestesses who also were superior to the priests).
It's complicated NOW, but it wasn't when it started. Sorry Zeigfried, but I think you're dead wrong on this. Bullshit movements that gain legitimacy to cover bullshit are illegitimate.
author=LibertyWho knew people could be THAT desperate to win internet debates??
It was basically a bunch of women (some of them hired) on the GG side of things
The solution to all of this is simple. Ban the internet
EDIT: What #GamerGate reminds me of:
author=Yellow Magicauthor=LibertyWho knew people could be THAT desperate to win internet debates??
It was basically a bunch of women (some of them hired) on the GG side of things
The solution to all of this is simple. Ban the internet
This is what I honest-to-goodness believe is going to happen to the world: we're all going to be so badly at each other's throats that it leads to World War III/global catastrophe of some kind, computers will be to blame and when the dust is settled, computers will be outlawed.
