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CloseI can't hide anything! The hide tags won't work! Wall of text.
What religion has dominated Western society for more than 1600 years? What religion do we base our rules of society on? What is the religion of the men who remain in charge of Western Civilization? Christianity, of course. But Christian society doesn't hate women, it loves them. Let's see how much it loves them.
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
By the time we reach the New Testament, the Bible is pretty much tired of calling women evil and is now settling for insulting men by calling them women. Oh, and there is all that bullshit about a woman not speaking in church and about having to shave her head if she doesn't cover it.
I was once in a religious group owned by a woman. A new member joined and berated her for being the owner because God forbade women from teaching, preaching, or even speaking. Funny, I thought that was Timothy (The book of Timothy is the one that carries on about this). He called her all sorts of things. Did anyone kick him? No! Clearly, here was a very spiritual man, so the moderators reminded him that the Bible commanded that a man must respect anyone granted authority, even if it is a woman, and everybody was happy! Except me. I left.
What religion has dominated Western society for more than 1600 years? What religion do we base our rules of society on? What is the religion of the men who remain in charge of Western Civilization? Christianity, of course. But Christian society doesn't hate women, it loves them. Let's see how much it loves them.
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
author=The Bible!author=Bible(See, in the book of Genesis, rape is a crime that the woman commits against the honor of the man that rapes her. An entire town raped Dinah and her brothers killed every man there. In apocryphal texts, God approves of this slaughter and even gives the Simon the sword he uses to kill every man. Now they must deal with their sister as a harlot because she has shamed them by being raped. This is their justification for killing an entire town.)
34:25 And it came to pass on the third day, when they were sore, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brethren, took each man his sword, and came upon the city boldly, and slew all the males.
34:26 And they slew Hamor and Shechem his son with the edge of the sword, and took Dinah out of Shechem's house, and went out.
34:27 The sons of Jacob came upon the slain, and spoiled the city, because they had defiled their sister.
34:28 They took their sheep, and their oxen, and their asses, and that which was in the city, and that which was in the field,
34:29 And all their wealth, and all their little ones, and their wives took they captive, and spoiled even all that was in the house.
34:30 And Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, Ye have troubled me to make me to stink among the inhabitants of the land, among the Canaanites and the Perizzites: and I being few in number, they shall gather themselves together against me, and slay me; and I shall be destroyed, I and my house.
34:31 And they said, Should he deal with our sister as with an harlot?author=Bible(Because women are property of men, after all.)
Exd 21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
21:8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.
21:9 And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.
21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.
22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. (And so, tens of thousands of women were burnt at the stake during the Middle Ages.)
34:16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods. (Notice that the women freely "go a whoring", but they have to make the men "go a whoring".)author=Bible(Ah! If a woman has a baby, she is unclean, twice as unclean if that baby is a girl!)
Lev. 12:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.
12:3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
12:4 And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.
12:5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.
12:6 And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or dove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest:
12:7 Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female.
12:8 And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean.
I'm not even going to bother posting anything from Leviticus 15: we get it. Women are filty, filty creatures that should not even be touched while they are bleeding and if you do, you're just as filthy as them and they're so filthy that they're even unclean when they're not unclean. The entire book is dedicated to explaining that women are unclean, sinful creatures that God is absolutely disgusted by.
19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. (Nice of them not to put her death, but how dare she be assaulted and raped! She should at least be beaten for it!)
27:3 And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary.
27:4 And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels. (It always comes down to the price tag.)
Now we've come to my favorite one:author=Bible(If a woman cheats, she is to be poisoned and if she survives, she is not guilty. If a man cheats, that's his prerogative and the woman is still to blame.)
Nmb. 5:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
5:12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
5:13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled, and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
5:14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled: (5:14) "And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him ... and she be not defiled:"
5:15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance. (5:15) "Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest,"
5:16 And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the LORD: (5:16) "The priest shall ... set her before the LORD."
5:17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:
5:18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse: (5:18) "And the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse."
5:19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse: (5:19) "And the priest shall ... say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee ... be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse."
(5:20) "But if ... some man have lain with thee beside thine husband,"
(5:21) "The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell."
(5:22) "And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen."
5:20 But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband:
5:21 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell;
5:22 And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen.
5:23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:
5:24 And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse: and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter. (5:24) "And he shall cause the woman to drink the bitter water that causeth the curse."
5:25 Then the priest shall take the jealousy offering out of the woman's hand, and shall wave the offering before the LORD, and offer it upon the altar:
5:26 And the priest shall take an handful of the offering, even the memorial thereof, and burn it upon the altar, and afterward shall cause the woman to drink the water. (5:27) "When he hath made her to drink the water ... if she be defiled ... the water that causeth the curse shall ... become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people."
Is magic OK?
What the Bible says about magic
(5:28) "If the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed."
(5:29) "This is the law of jealousies,"
(5:30) "When the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law."
5:27 And when he hath made her to drink the water, then it shall come to pass, that, if she be defiled, and have done trespass against her husband, that the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her, and become bitter, and her belly shall swell, and her thigh shall rot: and the woman shall be a curse among her people.
5:28 And if the woman be not defiled, but be clean; then she shall be free, and shall conceive seed.
5:29 This is the law of jealousies, when a wife goeth aside to another instead of her husband, and is defiled;
5:30 Or when the spirit of jealousy cometh upon him, and he be jealous over his wife, and shall set the woman before the LORD, and the priest shall execute upon her all this law.
5:31 Then shall the man be guiltless from iniquity, and this woman shall bear her iniquity.
By the time we reach the New Testament, the Bible is pretty much tired of calling women evil and is now settling for insulting men by calling them women. Oh, and there is all that bullshit about a woman not speaking in church and about having to shave her head if she doesn't cover it.
I was once in a religious group owned by a woman. A new member joined and berated her for being the owner because God forbade women from teaching, preaching, or even speaking. Funny, I thought that was Timothy (The book of Timothy is the one that carries on about this). He called her all sorts of things. Did anyone kick him? No! Clearly, here was a very spiritual man, so the moderators reminded him that the Bible commanded that a man must respect anyone granted authority, even if it is a woman, and everybody was happy! Except me. I left.
Why do the hide tags never work for you?
Did you try putting them in manually? Maybe you're missing a bracket.
Is it because the Show button won't open when you preview the post? Because that's normal. I think it works if you refresh the page.
Did you try putting them in manually? Maybe you're missing a bracket.
Is it because the Show button won't open when you preview the post? Because that's normal. I think it works if you refresh the page.
Leviticus is my favorite bible shit because it is solid:
What book is NMB? Google gave me some new millennium bible garbage. OT God is a dick of Greek pantheon proportions.
What book is NMB? Google gave me some new millennium bible garbage. OT God is a dick of Greek pantheon proportions.
author=GreatRedSpirit
Leviticus is my favorite bible shit because it is solid:
What book is NMB? Google gave me some new millennium bible garbage. OT God is a dick of Greek pantheon proportions.
Numbers. Sorry.
Hide works for me normally.
But should I try to hide a series of quotes...
author=nameauthor=pianotmShould I try to hide a series of quotes...author=IsrieriWhy do the hide tags never work for you?
Did you try putting them in manually? Maybe you're missing a bracket.
Is it because the Show button won't open when you preview the post? Because that's normal. I think it works if you refresh the page.
These worked somewhat but it's still FUBAR.
Mobh
4
I don't feel very strongly about this whole mess because I just don't care, but I find it interesting how quickly the news media has tagged the movement as just a bunch of woman-hating nerds and nothing more. I've followed this whole thing with pretty much minimal attention and even I can tell there are a lot of legitimate concerns the games media just doesn't want to respond to for whatever reason. I wish there was proper discourse and maybe everyone could eventually get over it. It won't stop if you just try to silence it.
The only thing this thread will accomplish is to create bad blood between users. It's already clearly happening. Nothing will change because of this "discussion". No awareness of important issues(since this is a discussion between people who already consider themselves aware). No positive change to the attitudes of the people with harmful behavior. That seems to be a recurring theme of this whole GG thing.
I really hope that this is not true, but I totally get why you think it might be.
For what it's worth, my entire point boils down to "SJWs are just as bad or worse", not "GamerGate is inviolable and no one should dare question it" so...idk. Hopefully it is an argument that people who think GG is a bag of shit are open to, because I kind of also think GG is a bag of shit.
I don't feel very strongly about this whole mess because I just don't care, but I find it interesting how quickly the news media has tagged the movement as just a bunch of woman-hating nerds and nothing more.
Yeah, I think that it's revealed two disturbing things. There's a scary amount of woman-hate lurking in the gaming community and a scary amount of nerd-hate lurking in mainstream society.
author=Mobh
It won't stop if you just try to silence it.
Aye, Streisand Effect.. That pretty much blew the thing up near the beginning. For me, it was a TotalBiscuit threat that was host to 16,000+ comments which got entirely deleted
I mean, you don't just notice shit like that happening and not wonder "Wot?"
Hide tags won't allow anyone to hide quotes. They're broken that way. Only links, images and text work well in them, so... Perhaps use quotation marks to denote quotes if you're going to use hide tags. ^.^
I agree on the bad blood issue.
Frankly, GamerGate as it stands is unfortunately a topic rooted in the disparity between men and women- you cannot say it is not. Men can be extremely vocal on the subject, whilst the movement itself spawned from non-existent claims of ethics violation (from a woman), and women who are more or less neutral, or made afraid by the movement are doxxed. (Felicia Day's personal details were posted within a week of her so much as mildly commenting on the issue).
GamerGate itself has become muddied by this debate-- is it actually about ethics in games journalism? Given that Ms. Quinn did not sleep with 4/5 of the men she was claimed to have done so, and the fifth was after the review and was her significant other, the answer's probably 'no'. This is a falsehood that's spiralled out of control.
Is Anita Sarkeesian the paragon of feminism in games commentary? Fuck no, but does that legitimize the threat commit a mass shooting at a university she was going to talk at? No. Definitely not.
The women of this debate are the ones who are being targeted in a way that is legitimate detrimental to their health and well-being. I ask-- do any of the men in this discussion feel remotely threatened by commenting on this situation? Do you feel like your career, life, etc are at stake?
Because I do. I am legitimately frightened for my future in games if the movement continues. I have just changed my name here from something gendered, I no longer have my gender listed. I want to be able to make games in the future featuring social commentary- yes, including feminism and my experiences as a woman!- without fearing for my life.
Games is my career. I am one course off of completing a degree in Game Design. And I am frightened by this movement. People and lecturers at my school are getting letters from girls who would come into this industry but are now too scared to do so.
This isn't a fear men have because games is seen as a man's industry. Statistics showing women are paid less in games by something like 25% are shot down by 'women don't want to make games'. Look around RMN and some of the game devs here. Liberty, Rhyme, yuna21, Racheal, Archeia_Nessiah, marimo, copious others are female devs. Do we not want to be in the industry, or are we being pushed out by movements like GamerGate? By people who no longer want feminism as an issue in games despite Ubisoft saying 'it's too hard to animate women', and the mere 2% of actual games articles that discuss feminism?
And in additional- while it is very obvious and glaring here, the issues sparked by GamerGate are very real. Women and men are raised differently, and women are raised and seen as underclass. Chilvary, for example, is not about manners- if a man holds a door open for another man it becomes an embarrassment.
Think of the steps you- if you are a man- take to not get sexually assaulted when you go out. What do you do, if anything? A night out at a club, what are your steps to prevent sexual assault?
Your list is probably less than five things long, if it exists at all.
Ask any woman who has ever left her home what her steps are. We are constantly under threat, and not being a woman makes that hard to process.
In my country pepper spray is banned. When I had to walk home alone as a result, I bought a can of flyspray, kept my keys and phone on hand, kept my fist clenched, my bag close to myself, didn't make eye contact.
I have gone to a shop to get groceries and been stopped and asked out by a man in a vehicle who was at least twice my age. No, I was not wearing anything provocative. Nor makeup.
This is the root of where I stand in feminism. I want to be able to go and buy groceries without fearing I'm going to be raped. This is not an experience most men will have.
Not all men will do this but Yes All Women will experience it. That is the point. That is why we generalize. It's a concept nicely coined by Tumblr as Schrodinger's Rapist. I don't know if you're going to rape me, you might be one of the nice ones, but I can't guarantee that when I have to live my whole life in fear of my safety no matter what steps I take in terms of dress and mannerisms.
Frankly, GamerGate as it stands is unfortunately a topic rooted in the disparity between men and women- you cannot say it is not. Men can be extremely vocal on the subject, whilst the movement itself spawned from non-existent claims of ethics violation (from a woman), and women who are more or less neutral, or made afraid by the movement are doxxed. (Felicia Day's personal details were posted within a week of her so much as mildly commenting on the issue).
GamerGate itself has become muddied by this debate-- is it actually about ethics in games journalism? Given that Ms. Quinn did not sleep with 4/5 of the men she was claimed to have done so, and the fifth was after the review and was her significant other, the answer's probably 'no'. This is a falsehood that's spiralled out of control.
Is Anita Sarkeesian the paragon of feminism in games commentary? Fuck no, but does that legitimize the threat commit a mass shooting at a university she was going to talk at? No. Definitely not.
The women of this debate are the ones who are being targeted in a way that is legitimate detrimental to their health and well-being. I ask-- do any of the men in this discussion feel remotely threatened by commenting on this situation? Do you feel like your career, life, etc are at stake?
Because I do. I am legitimately frightened for my future in games if the movement continues. I have just changed my name here from something gendered, I no longer have my gender listed. I want to be able to make games in the future featuring social commentary- yes, including feminism and my experiences as a woman!- without fearing for my life.
Games is my career. I am one course off of completing a degree in Game Design. And I am frightened by this movement. People and lecturers at my school are getting letters from girls who would come into this industry but are now too scared to do so.
This isn't a fear men have because games is seen as a man's industry. Statistics showing women are paid less in games by something like 25% are shot down by 'women don't want to make games'. Look around RMN and some of the game devs here. Liberty, Rhyme, yuna21, Racheal, Archeia_Nessiah, marimo, copious others are female devs. Do we not want to be in the industry, or are we being pushed out by movements like GamerGate? By people who no longer want feminism as an issue in games despite Ubisoft saying 'it's too hard to animate women', and the mere 2% of actual games articles that discuss feminism?
And in additional- while it is very obvious and glaring here, the issues sparked by GamerGate are very real. Women and men are raised differently, and women are raised and seen as underclass. Chilvary, for example, is not about manners- if a man holds a door open for another man it becomes an embarrassment.
Think of the steps you- if you are a man- take to not get sexually assaulted when you go out. What do you do, if anything? A night out at a club, what are your steps to prevent sexual assault?
Your list is probably less than five things long, if it exists at all.
Ask any woman who has ever left her home what her steps are. We are constantly under threat, and not being a woman makes that hard to process.
In my country pepper spray is banned. When I had to walk home alone as a result, I bought a can of flyspray, kept my keys and phone on hand, kept my fist clenched, my bag close to myself, didn't make eye contact.
I have gone to a shop to get groceries and been stopped and asked out by a man in a vehicle who was at least twice my age. No, I was not wearing anything provocative. Nor makeup.
This is the root of where I stand in feminism. I want to be able to go and buy groceries without fearing I'm going to be raped. This is not an experience most men will have.
Not all men will do this but Yes All Women will experience it. That is the point. That is why we generalize. It's a concept nicely coined by Tumblr as Schrodinger's Rapist. I don't know if you're going to rape me, you might be one of the nice ones, but I can't guarantee that when I have to live my whole life in fear of my safety no matter what steps I take in terms of dress and mannerisms.
author=Max McGeeYeah, that's kind of what happens when a movement is borne of a hate campaign. The message is lost. This is why GG should probably just be abandoned. Clinging to it is going to do more harm than good at this point (with respect to game journalism integrity).I don't feel very strongly about this whole mess because I just don't care, but I find it interesting how quickly the news media has tagged the movement as just a bunch of woman-hating nerds and nothing more.Yeah, I think that it's revealed two disturbing things. There's a scary amount of woman-hate lurking in the gaming community and a scary amount of nerd-hate lurking in mainstream society.
Has someone started #Ethica yet?
E:
in response to Puddsie (who ninja posted before my own reply), I don't do anything to prevent sexual assault. It never crosses my mind. The worst I feared was getting mugged, and on those occasions I grasped my keys between my fingers Wolverine style.
But anyway, I had thought about this thread on RMN, and I felt it was telling that it was mostly dudes arguing with other dudes, and that the women here were (mostly) conspicuously absent.
Also, Legion, you know that most of the crazies in the "SJW" camp are dudes, right? Like, they aren't psychotic fembots, but guys (maybe even well meaning?) masquerading as women being all chilvarous and whiteknight and whatnot. It's a pretty ironic twist. (at least, this is what I have heard from anecdotal sources)
author=kentona
Has someone started #Ethica yet?
I thought liberty clearly pointed out that she was joking about that...
author=Zeigfried_McBaconauthor=kentonaI thought liberty clearly pointed out that she was joking about that...
Has someone started #Ethica yet?
Some of the best ideas begin as a joke.
Let's not create another hashtag that will inevitably be taken our of context and used against everybody.
author=Pizza
Let's not create another hashtag that will inevitably be taken our of context and used against everybody.
There will always be hashtags, movements, ideas, revolutions. They're all the same thing and they can't be stopped because they are a natural force. GamerGate has no legitimacy, and I will continue to believe that...but what many of the decent members are trying to accomplish; that does have legitimacy, and the very existence of GG points to a problem that needs to be addressed.
My main issue is that if you create an ethics based hashtag at this point it will be swallowed in 5 seconds by GamerGate and used as a way to accuse people of shit they didn't do or say, just like all the GamerGate and "Stop X Person" tags are.
Did everyone forget about expressing their ideas through games?
Did everyone forget about expressing their ideas through games?
Mobh
4
The problem of GamerGate is really the problem of anonymity. Anyone can exploit the fact that it's a leaderless movement.
Nivlacart
1571
Women's Rights =/= Feminism
and
The pursuit of Equality is not somehow bringing everything to the same level, but providing the opportunity for anyone to be
right?
and
The pursuit of Equality is not somehow bringing everything to the same level, but providing the opportunity for anyone to be
right?
