SOOO... GAMERGATE

You can find bad apples in pretty much any group if you look hard enough. Its the same in reverse, you can find a good apple in a bad group if you look hard enough. Its classic confirmation bias.

The biggest hole with the whole "its about Rad feminism" thing is that I've noticed that the voices condemning Feminism have been consistently much louder than the voices of actual rad fems. That they're too quick to write off the movement because a handful of people have been unpleasant.

I have to admit, I really have to look into Anita more because most of her detractors have been the sort of people who would rag on her even if FemFreq was a flawless show. I do find comparing her to Jack Thompson more than a little exaggerated.

I find the idea that she shouldn't take advantage of GG to spread her message hilarious. To me its like "If the people who get angry at me no matter what I do get mad that I'm using the harassment to spread the message, why should I care?. If life gives you lemons..." Honestly, I'd do the same thing.

Conservatism really is all about the fear of having to think, isn't it?

author=slashphoenix
Video games are already instruments of social engineering! So are books, films, television, newspapers, paintings, music, photography, YouTube videos, concerts, graffiti, memes... Anything that comes from the artistic, creative side of our brain is going to communicate something about ourselves - whether we intend it to or not - and communication is going to lead to change in society and culture. Due to that, people are going to be afraid of communication that might lead to changes they're not ready for, or is harmful to them.

Fair enough. So, what exactly do you want out of all this? I've yet to hear a clear objective, other than simply to antagonize and threaten the career of dissenters and apostates. And also just to insult and troll "nerds".

Do you just want games to proselytize and preach feminism? Sounds like really unfun games. Not specifically because of feminism, but because proselytizing in games is ridiculously lame in general.

Thunderf00t says it pretty well.

By the way, even us white neckbeard basement dweller virgins absolutely love Perfect Dark and Metroid, two games featuring non-sexualized female protagonists who are not just female versions of a male hero. One would think, given this recent narrative, that we'd hate those games, just because of the gender of the protagonist. Why do we love those games? Because they're good games.

Oh and giggly boob smack game? Duke Nukem Forever? We neckbeards loathed it. Why? Bad game.

tl;dr: I love women. I love women in video games, and the game industry. I want the genders to get along. I strongly condemn threats against women. The vast majority of men share this sentiment. This anti-gamergate agenda goes against that and seeks to profit from driving an even deeper wedge between the sexes.

author=harmonic
Do you just want games to proselytize and preach feminism? Sounds like really unfun games. Not specifically because of feminism, but because proselytizing in games is ridiculously lame in general.

"Me no want game that think. Me want punch block. Me no want be told am wrong. Me want pew pew."



Do we need games to be "preachy"? Hell no, and nobody's asking for that.

Just because we all grew up playing Super Mario Bros doesn't mean that's all games can and should be. Do you realize how mind-numbingly boring RPGs are? Like, fucking A, read a book! But why do we love them? Because they're interactively telling a story and they give us something to wrap our brains around. I'm surprised someone interested in going commercial with their RPG Maker games doesn't already have this at the core of their being.


Woohoo! Thirty years' experience! Boo do boo ba da BOO... bonk.

Maybe we'd like something that pushes back once in a while? You know, because we're not all Italian plumbers in red overalls stepping on mushrooms and turtles. Hell, some of us aren't even Italian! Does that blow your mind? Maybe we'd like something that challenges expectations (and I'm not talking about games with "invisible" death around every corner a la I Want To Be The Guy)? Throwing Metroid at us and then following it up with numerous Megaman, Kirby, Mario, Castlevania, Legend of Zelda, Final Fantasy titles for days (mentally add them if I forgot a few) doesn't really argue the point that everything is balanced. What about a game like Megaman except Megaman is a woman (only not in the She-Ra/Batgirl/Supergirl/etc. sense)? Oh wait, even the vaguest concept of that was already shot down.

"Games aren't fun if they make us think" or "games aren't fun if they include women because then they're obviously just pushing an agenda and ain't nobody got time for dat" aren't valid dismissals to what's going on right here.

author=TehGuy

GamerGate wants all women to stop having and expressing opinions about games that they don't agree with. They want to drive women out of the conversation, out of the industry, out of the medium.

That's a pretty hefty claim right there, mate, and not one to be thrown around unsourced.

I'm surprised you've gotten this far into the thread and haven't taken the time to read up on all the harassment that's been going on.

"Yeah, well can you prove I'm being an asshole? Huh? Where's your paperwork? You've got to show your paperwork, douchebag."

Frankly, I'm surprised any man has the gull to speak up about (read: against) something that doesn't relate to him, as if what was being introduced was in some way synonymous with the Third Reich (to which everyone's got an equal point).

author=SnowOwl
Do you always only hear what you want to hear, Corfaisus?

Actually, I'm dyslexic. What's your point? {sarcasm}

You're more than welcome to add something to the discussion instead of just shooting me down.

Frozen wasn't enough for everyone?

Read it, she's probably the first person I've agreed with through this entire discussion. I feel very sad that she faced harassment for that... Still don't exactly disagree with you and Solitayre though.

Your defense for defending the statement that "GGers are angered by women having an opinion" is essentially that some women who speak out are doxxed and threatened, correct?

If so, consider this: some women who have spoken out in favor of gamergate have been doxxed by the anti-gamergate movement and threatened. There's been quite of bit of harassment from them too. Max McGee linked a lot of these events in his recent posts.

You could argue that it happens with less frequency on the anti-gg side, yet it still happens, so why do you not also say that the anti-GGers are disgusted with women having opinions?

P.S. I think the statement is also false because GG-ers aren't disgusted when women have an opinion that agrees with them (this falls under "having an opinion).