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Closethis entire page is like an episode of hell's kitchen, just the architecture edition
*insert bastardized gordon ramsey quote here*
edit: the last page. whoops i page sniped. i don't have anything to show you guys i am a failure
*insert bastardized gordon ramsey quote here*
edit: the last page. whoops i page sniped. i don't have anything to show you guys i am a failure
author=LockeZ
No but seriously I'm not even part of this but it's really interesting and helpful for the next time I make a restaraunt. Next: someone analyze an "item shop" to this degree! I hardly ever see shops in video games that bear any resemblance to real stores.
Yeah speaking of that it'd be really cool to have a place to discuss how to map certain areas. Maybe that can be part of what Maps Weekly is about? For example, one week might be how do you map, uh, a village. And everyone can pitch in on how they map it, functionally and aesthetically.
Man, we have so many of these types of threads right now though. Review Club, Maps Weekly, Let's Write... oh well, let's do them all! Huzzah!
author=BizarreMonkey
I've been to 15 different coffee shops, 12 breakfast bars and at least 28 different Macdonald's venues in my life. None of them have gotten close to looking as retarded as either of these in their general layout.
I'm not seeing anything remotely credible in the maps you provided. Living proof that "going to almost thirty different McDonalds" does not confer brilliant mapping skills.
author=Liberty
Learn some proper restaurant design before being acting like you know best about what they are and how to map them. :/
Edit:
author=CashmereCat
Yeah speaking of that it'd be really cool to have a place to discuss how to map certain areas. Maybe that can be part of what Maps Weekly is about? For example, one week might be how do you map, uh, a village. And everyone can pitch in on how they map it, functionally and aesthetically.
I think that's an awesome idea ^_^
are you really serious
That said the kitchen in the left one is just as unforgivable for different reasons.
I see I will have to show you mongoloids how it's done myself!
You need a lesson in humility. Seriously, this whole "I'm better and more popular than everyone" shtick is getting pretty childish and annoying.
Christamoose
192
So, like LinkPlayer, I'm making a game about owning a restaurant. But without PokeMon.
The restaurant itself
The town it's in (Rutabaga Town)
The restaurant itself
The town it's in (Rutabaga Town)
Item shops are all about selling items and directing customer flow while also keeping an eye on the customers. It depends on the kind of store as well as the amount of traffic you usually get. Often your sales want to be front and centre so that customers can see them and be persuaded. Sale items are usually those you want to get rid of (yeah, guess who's also worked retail quite a bit - including setting up sales floors) so you want them to be very visible for the customer.
More specialised items you want in their own sections and areas. Regulars know where things are kept without signage since shops rarely change the area allotment of certain item types. And no, this isn't just supermarkets - small shops do this because it helps the customer find what they want. On the way to what they want, though, will be more specials or items that you want to sell off.
More costly items will be kept close to the counter so that they can't be stolen, or kept in an area the customer can see but not enter (depends on the items in question. If you've a weapon store, putting the swords out where potential robbers can pick them up and kill you with 'em ain't a great idea. ;p )
Ideally you want a walkway lined with specials from the door to the counter, and then some lines of specials leading to the 'rows' of specialist items/areas. This increases the chances of people picking up on-sale items and helps guide the buyer along the 'path' so they unconsciously feel they need to follow the line and browse. Tricksy~
Some examples:
More specialised items you want in their own sections and areas. Regulars know where things are kept without signage since shops rarely change the area allotment of certain item types. And no, this isn't just supermarkets - small shops do this because it helps the customer find what they want. On the way to what they want, though, will be more specials or items that you want to sell off.
More costly items will be kept close to the counter so that they can't be stolen, or kept in an area the customer can see but not enter (depends on the items in question. If you've a weapon store, putting the swords out where potential robbers can pick them up and kill you with 'em ain't a great idea. ;p )
Ideally you want a walkway lined with specials from the door to the counter, and then some lines of specials leading to the 'rows' of specialist items/areas. This increases the chances of people picking up on-sale items and helps guide the buyer along the 'path' so they unconsciously feel they need to follow the line and browse. Tricksy~
Some examples:
author=Liberty
It's a restaurant. Ever worked in one? Yeah, didn't think so. I have - this is a pretty decent build. Let me make a mock up of what the two I worked in were like.
This was the larger one, rated four stars. The 'cage doors' were in actuality plastic flap doors that were very easily pushed open when hands were full of food and/or empty plates. The kitchens were right there, behind those doors and the main floor of the restaurant was a large carpeted area, seperated from the bar area by small siding wall. You could see the front door from the bar easily enough, but you couldn't see the kitchens. The small hallway held the toilets and both the north and east areas held exits to the side and back of the restaurant. The north end of the hallway also had a door that led in to the kitchens - behind the partition wall at the top of that map was more kitchen area as well as a walk in fridge.
Tell me again how it's not realistic?
Oh, wait, let me show you the Chinese restaurant I worked at first.
In this place I was often tending the register at the front of the restaurant. Yes, that is a fake wall partition that blocks the view of the street (and registrar) from seeing most of what people are doing in the back room. Yes, the toilets (to the right) had a small hallway that was always left open, leading to the kitchens. And while there was a door between the kitchen and the dining room, it was one of those push n pull types that you can't close properly and swing in the breeze.
Do you know why real restaurants are set up like this? There is a reason. To enable fast travel from the food to the table. Fucking around by running around counters is stupid when you're carrying three plates full of food. Straight from the kitchen to you is how a lot of restaurants run. So, you know, it's actually quite an accurate depiction of what a restaurant looks and is built like.
Fast food restaurants are completely different as they are all about not engaging with the populace. In our restaurants, regulars would give their compliments to the chef face to face. Fast transfer between kitchen and dining area made that a possibility, as it did fast delivery of food and clean-up of dishes. A door adjacent to the floor is a heaven send to a waitsperson and customer awaiting their food. Because juggling three to four plates loaded with food is hard enough without fucking around with zig-zagging routes. Fuck that noise. Learn some proper restaurant design before being acting like you know best about what they are and how to map them. :/
This is true. However, the picture here defeats the purpose.
Notice how the L-shape constricts traffic? At best, this should be T-shaped, have an added kitchen east of the bar, and an added dining area. Food goes out, orders go in, and it takes roughly the same amount of time to deliver orders regardless of seating. With an L-shape, the customer in the left corner gets little attention because the waiter has to walk both ways the entire length for the order. Even though #1 looks simpler, it is actually a model restaurant.
Picture one looks okay for expedition, though I have to ask what the barred up area is. Nvm, I read it after. For a four-star restaurant, this doesn't seem very efficient though. I assume food would have to be prepared at both the bar and the kitchen, because otherwise, you have people crossing paths with empty dishes and full dishes, and you have people at the bar who ordered food getting neglected.
Picture 2 does look like a typical Chinese restaurant. It is also more efficient than the so called four-star restaurant. Food goes out, servers go in, and there aren't multiple avenues for food to be served.
author=unityFITE ME!
I'm not seeing anything remotely credible in the maps you provided. Living proof that "going to almost thirty different McDonalds" does not confer brilliant mapping skills.
I also didn't say I was brilliant, I was just less bad than the bad, and wanted to gloat about that because I clearly have nothing more redeemable to gloat about.
author=LibertyCan I return fire by asking you to read my whole post? I pointed out on several occasions that my maps were definitely flawed, but just that theirs were way more flawed!
Learn some proper restaurant design before being acting like you know best about what they are and how to map them. :/
It's not that my maps are good, it's just that there's are less good.
author=LockeZI'm not even sure if I was serious with it or not. But it was funny for me to read at least!
No but seriously I'm not even part of this but it's really interesting and helpful for the next time I make a restaraunt. Next: someone analyze an "item shop" to this degree! I hardly ever see shops in video games that bear any resemblance to real stores.
Also that I was compared to Gordon Ramsey made it worth it.
@Unity: Okay even if my maps are basically Hitler's unappetizing produce it still shows that even with yours they look nothing like the examples I was chastising. From now on since you're clearly the Kitchen pro I'll let you do the emphatic outbursts on Kitchens #101 because you've got me circled.
You need a lesson in humility. Seriously, this whole "I'm better and more popular than everyone" shtick is getting pretty childish and annoying.Lol that shtick is more or less facetious, it's my way of showing how annoying people with ego's can be. Sorry if it came across as legitimate, not meaning to really get on nerves here.
I figured what with this place being a lot tougher it'd be able to handle it pretty well, despite how thickly I layed it on. Sorry if I offended anyone, it wasn't my intent.
I'm obviously not popular I mean come on all of you probably have way more views on one of your games than I do all of mine.
In reality I'm incredibly shy, I lay on this silly facade to appear confident but it's not real. Just ask anyone in my company and they'll tell you I'm a mushy carcass underneath.
Forgivable is your chagrin and misconception, though. If you want more information feel free to PM me about it.
author=bulmabriefs144This is all I was actually trying to say.
This is true. However, the picture here defeats the purpose.
Notice how the L-shape constricts traffic? At best, this should be T-shaped, have an added kitchen east of the bar, and an added dining area. Food goes out, orders go in, and it takes roughly the same amount of time to deliver orders regardless of seating. With an L-shape, the customer in the left corner gets little attention because the waiter has to walk both ways for the order.
Picture one looks okay for expedition, though I have to ask what the barred up area is. Is there a second kitchen? Or is it like an employee breakroom?
Apologies if I came off as a supremacist dickhead, especially when the vast majority of you are better mappers than me. I was more or less reviewing the map in an emphatic drill sergeant manner because that's fun to do, I didn't mean to upset anyone.
Hey, guess I was wrong, turns out Drama does totally exist here!
author=PuddorNonsense! You have over three times the makerscore I do. D:
edit: the last page. whoops i page sniped. i don't have anything to show you guys i am a failure
author=BizarreMonkeyauthor=unityFITE ME!
I'm not seeing anything remotely credible in the maps you provided. Living proof that "going to almost thirty different McDonalds" does not confer brilliant mapping skills.
I also didn't say I was brilliant, I was just less bad than the bad, and wanted to gloat about that because I clearly have nothing more redeemable to gloat about.
It's fine and all if you want to try to apply your real-world knowledge to mapping. But when you take someone's mapping who clearly knows what they're doing, call it "retarded," and don't improve on it with your own screenshots, it's hard to take you seriously.
author=BizarreMonkey
@Unity: Okay even if my maps are basically Hitler's unappetizing produce it still shows that even with yours they look nothing like the examples I was chastising. From now on since you're clearly the Kitchen pro I'll let you do the emphatic outbursts on Kitchens #101 because you've got me circled.
Yay for passive aggression. I never claimed to be a pro at anything. You're the one who asserted that they knew how all this works.
author=BizarreMonkeyYou need a lesson in humility. Seriously, this whole "I'm better and more popular than everyone" shtick is getting pretty childish and annoying.Lol that shtick is more or less facetious, it's my way of showing how annoying people with ego's can be. Sorry if it came across as legitimate, not meaning to really get on nerves here.
I figured what with this place being a lot tougher it'd be able to handle it pretty well, despite how thickly I layed it on. Sorry if I offended anyone, it wasn't my intent.
I'm obviously not popular I mean come on all of you probably have way more views on one of your games than I do all of mine.
In reality I'm incredibly shy, I lay on this silly facade to appear confident but it's not real. Just ask anyone in my company and they'll tell you I'm a mushy carcass underneath.
Keep in mind that the attitude you're putting on display may be costing your games potential players. When I first saw your screenshots on here, I thought "Wow, how interesting and different. Maybe I should check out a game of theirs?" Then I saw your attitude and went "Nope, if their games are anything like their attitude, then I want no part of that."
author=unity
Edit:author=CashmereCat
Yeah speaking of that it'd be really cool to have a place to discuss how to map certain areas. Maybe that can be part of what Maps Weekly is about? For example, one week might be how do you map, uh, a village. And everyone can pitch in on how they map it, functionally and aesthetically.
I think that's an awesome idea ^_^
Sure thing, lets make some item shops this week. My ideas for next theme like container, dorm, sewer can all either wait or are so strange that we don§t need to get around them any time soon.
author=bulmabriefs144
Picture one looks okay for expedition, though I have to ask what the barred up area is. Nvm, I read it after. For a four-star restaurant, this doesn't seem very efficient though. I assume food would have to be prepared at both the bar and the kitchen, because otherwise, you have people crossing paths with empty dishes and full dishes, and you have people at the bar who ordered food getting neglected.
Picture 2 does look like a typical Chinese restaurant. It is also more efficient than the so called four-star restaurant. Food goes out, servers go in, and there aren't multiple avenues for food to be served.
The first one was extremely efficient. We had our separate areas but still could run back and forth when necessary. It was a good layout because it gave the illusion of intimacy for those in the corners. Keep in mind that tables were made of smaller tables and could be changed in size when needed. We seated large and small parties and never had any trouble with traffic flow.
Not once.
You'd have to actually work a floor to understand how the flow goes. It worked very well which is why it stayed that way, even til today. And maintained it's four star status, as well.
And no, food preparation never happened at the bar. That was for drinks only. Why in the world would food be prepared there??? It's a BAR. Alcohol and drinks only. Geez.
Okay, let me learn you a thing. Restaurants - real restaurants that aren't take out but are sit-in - have a separate area for payment. The way it works is like so:
- customers take their seat
- wait staff are told which table
- wait staff take order for drinks and eats
- eat order goes to kitchen
- drinks order goes to bar (separate note areas on the pad)
- food is only handled in the kitchen. when it is cooked, the whole table (ideally) goes out at the same time or as close to as possible.
- drinks are only handled at the bar. when it is ready wait staff are notified of the table and take it
- we know who ordered what thanks to little table diagrams and numbering. makes it very easy for someone to step in and take over for someone else if needed, but with 100+ people a night it can be easy to forget which table ordered what so the diagram comes in super useful. same with the one for food
- often the drinks go out first
- food goes out second
- then float between tables in off time for fill ups and other drink orders
- end of food, customers are presented with a neatly written bill (written up by wait staff that took the order in a spare breath) and head to the bar area to pay
- only one who touches the till is the chief bar staffer
Food NEVER goes to the bar. Ever.
Dishes are taken out into the kitchen where the dishwasher is at. There is no way to access the bar from the kitchen so I have no idea where you get the idea that the food comes from there except to guess that you haven't been in a real restaurant before and are just guessing based on take-out places. There's a huge difference.
Seriously, it's pretty simple and easy and the set-up works very well. Again, lack of experience means it's hard for you to see why it works so well.
@Bizarre: Your maps are badly made for the kind of restaurant that the original map was made for. Even your so-called tavern is pretty bad - the layout is terrible, actually. A place like that would go out of business because wait staff would be dropping shit all over from having to wind their way to the tables. :/
You say the initial map is wrong then go on to discuss a whole other different kind of thing. You were talking about melons when everyone else was talking about mangoes. Seriously. Take-away restaurants are a very different beast to proper sit-in restaurants. If Indrah had made a Take-away restaurant then you would have the right of it, but as it was, the restaurant she made was the proper sit-in type.
author=unityThat's a fair point, I try to be entertaining but I go too far a lot of the time. I'll rely less on that whole shtick if you guys don't approve of it, and clearly, that's the case.
Keep in mind that the attitude you're putting on display may be costing your games potential players. When I first saw your screenshots on here, I thought "Wow, how interesting and different. Maybe I should check out a game of theirs?" Then I saw your attitude and went "Nope, if their games are anything like their attitude, then I want no part of that."
It's a thing brought about by nervousness, not knowing where I stand. For what it's worth, I'd have to say you guys have been way more awesome than any of the other rpgmaker sites I visit, even VX.net which I more or less governed until it died.
I like that you won't let me get away with being a douche like I was just recently, if it's any surprise I'm a gigantic social failure and due to condemning social situations to personal nonexistence (I dwell in my room 90% of a given day), I'm not very well trained or adept socially, which can lead to me being an outright idiot.
I'm trying to improve, though! And will keep trying.
Right, sorry to propel this thread off course, here's something I've begun working on recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTKpdtuBD0Y
That video is old, yes. I'm thinking of working some on the game again since it was a pretty cool idea and I really enjoyed working on it.
At least until I begin on a new IP for this thing.
author=LibertyI need to learn to read shit before I go on spiels.
@Bizarre: Your maps are badly made for the kind of restaurant that the original map was made for. Even your so-called tavern is pretty bad - the layout is terrible, actually. A place like that would go out of business because wait staff would be dropping shit all over from having to wind their way to the tables. :/
You say the initial map is wrong then go on to discuss a whole other different kind of thing. You were talking about melons when everyone else was talking about mangoes. Seriously. Take-away restaurants are a very different beast to proper sit-in restaurants. If Indrah had made a Take-away restaurant then you would have the right of it, but as it was, the restaurant she made was the proper sit-in type.
I apologize Indra, and Lib for being a misinterpreting wise-ass.
author=BizarreMonkeyauthor=unityThat's a fair point, I try to be entertaining but I go too far a lot of the time. I'll rely less on that who shtick if you guys don't approve of it, and clearly, that's the case.
Keep in mind that the attitude you're putting on display may be costing your games potential players. When I first saw your screenshots on here, I thought "Wow, how interesting and different. Maybe I should check out a game of theirs?" Then I saw your attitude and went "Nope, if their games are anything like their attitude, then I want no part of that."
It's a thing brought about by nervousness, not knowing where I stand. For what it's worth, I'd have to say you guys have been way more awesome than any of the other rpgmaker sites I visit, even VX.net which I more or less governed until it died.
I like that you won't let me get away with being a douche like I was just recently, if it's any surprise I'm a gigantic social failure and due to condemning social situations to personal nonexistence (I dwell in my room 90% of a given day), I'm not very well trained or adept socially, which can lead to me being an outright idiot.
I'm trying to improve, though! And will keep trying.
Right, sorry to propel this thread off course, here's something I've begun working on recently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTKpdtuBD0Y
That video is old, yes. I'm thinking of working some on the game again since it was a pretty cool idea and I really liked making it.
At least until I begin on a new IP for this thing.
That's fair. I'm a shy, nerve-wracked individual in real life myself, so I know it can be hard.
For the record, I don't think your mapping is "Hitler's unappetizing produce" or anything. It's better than mine, most of the time. I just didn't like you crapping on Indra's when I didn't think yours was superior.
Yay for passive aggression. I never claimed to be a pro at anything. You're the one who asserted that they knew how all this works.I was just butthurt because you made an ass out of me. :P
But yes, feedback, let's see.
@Anorak: The Atmosphere here is really cool, the ocular lighting and all adds well to the scene. Much as i want to I can't see anything wrong with it.
https://31.media.tumblr.com/fcee6dd2fe4e7d3ad76ce7101728aac0/tumblr_nmoanhdG1Y1sb27vqo1_1280.gif
@JosephSeraph: The CCC wants you!
To mak tilesets.
Because by god do you have us circled. But yeah, point is, you have a really cool tileset there, though maybe a bit more clutter in the actual map?
Also the way the mesh floor tiles appear more elevated than the not-mesh floortiles is a bit weird, but I'm mostly being pedantic because there's so little wrong with your screenshot.
So not cool, you all being so much more talented mapwise than me. >:[
Well, I'll continue to try and get better!
But right now, I've got next to nothing to show, sorry. :/
author=Liberty
Food NEVER goes to the bar. Ever.
Dishes are taken out into the kitchen where the dishwasher is at. There is no way to access the bar from the kitchen so I have no idea where you get the idea that the food comes from there except to guess that you haven't been in a real restaurant before and are just guessing based on take-out places. There's a huge difference.
In my state (VA), a certain percentage of the income must come from food, and bars have to have actual food available for service and not merely drinks. For this reason bars in this state are required to at least connect to the kitchen in a vague way. That said, some restaurants don't really get that you're eating at the bar for a sense of intimacy, and not to drink, so despite foot traffic nearby, orders get profoundly overlooked.
I was in a mexican restaurant waiting for dinner (Valentine's Day), and the only available table was at the bar. Despite the kitchen being just slightly to the right of the bar, they consistently passed by me, and I had to remind the bar guy that I'd ordered something. It took an hour to get my food.
Also, I generally have the sense to know that people's personality is not necessarily a reflection of their work. I tend to be extremely deadpan in public, and have trouble speaking up. But my social scenes are at least moderately well written. I'd probably still play menagerie. Haven't gotten around to playing it in the first place, but this won't affect my decision.
Seriously. We have a culture where people are afraid to ever show aspects of themselves, lest our business suffer. Nah man, everyone has pet peeves, bad days, and other stuff going on.
author=bulmabriefs144That's nice of you to say, while I'm certainly a nobody to society, I do have some friends I commonly talk to, I'm also really quiet in Public, sometimes to such a degree I miss my bus stop because I don't have the guts to ask the driver or anything.
Also, I generally have the sense to know that people's personality is not necessarily a reflection of their work. I tend to be extremely deadpan in public, and have trouble speaking up. But my social scenes are at least moderately well written. I'd probably still play menagerie. Haven't gotten around to playing it in the first place, but this won't affect my decision.
When I'm at an eating place I'm always ready to move aside for the needs of others, since I'm not usually in any sort of hurry and I'm pretty carefree and laidback, again, almost to an extent that endangers me.
On the internet I act very differently, and it's probably childish a lot of the time because the internet is an escape from reality for me.
author=bulmabriefs144While I agree, I didn't want to blame my behavior on a bad day and pet peeve, some may know me and Indra have a bit of a rocky history, so even though I don't want to bring that up on the surface, there's always a piece of me that wants to lash out, even though I probably respect her skills more now than I did before our feud.
Seriously. We have a culture where people are afraid to ever show aspects of themselves, lest our business suffer. Nah man, everyone has pet peeves, bad days, and other stuff going on.
Point is, I wanted to give a legitimate reason rather than blaming something petty. I find that being ready to admit you were wrong is always a good way to make an impression, it's hard to do certainly. But for fellas like me who suffer from severe social anxiety, it's a way to resolve things that is legitimate.
Had this been only a year ago, I'd have probably stormed out in a big angry huff like Ratty witnessed on RRR, but I try not to be like that anymore because I hate brats, and wouldn't want to be seen as one.
Sorry Lib! Guess I brought us some classic...
Even though I'm 27 and most of us are probably adults but shhhh! :0
I'll withdraw from this discusson now, feel free to PM me if you have anymore to talk about on the whole ordeal.
So what I'm getting out of this discussion so far is: blahblahblahrestaurauntsblahblahblahrealismblahblahblahbluhblahrestaurantworkexperienceblahblahthismapsucksblahblahblah...
And yet it doesn't seem like anyone considered how the map functions in the game as oppose to how it would feasibly function in real life. Unless you actually want the player to interact with that extra shelves/space/tables/etc. in shops, there is almost no reason to include it other than adding fluff, and fluff without meaning typically creates indifferent to negative reactions from players.
And yet it doesn't seem like anyone considered how the map functions in the game as oppose to how it would feasibly function in real life. Unless you actually want the player to interact with that extra shelves/space/tables/etc. in shops, there is almost no reason to include it other than adding fluff, and fluff without meaning typically creates indifferent to negative reactions from players.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
...Making your games look halfway decent, create a coherent setting, and not actively break the player's immersion is "fluff"?
Given a game where all the bookcases have something to say and one where they are decoration where you can't interact with, which is the one more likely to be played for a long period of time?
If you can't interact with it, it's fluff. So do the extra work and make it something to interact with, maybe?
If you can't interact with it, it's fluff. So do the extra work and make it something to interact with, maybe?
