NOMIC: GAME THREAD

Posts

I vote nay as I am too lazy to review stuff.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Just waiting on Shinan for the deciding vote, then.
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
Okay, I'll update in a bit.
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
Okay, so proposal 309 passes 3 votes to 2. In accordance with rule 305, LockeZ gains (309 - 291) * (3/5) = 18 * 0.6 = 10.8, which rounded up is 11, then doubled to 22.

Trihan and Shinan get 11 points each, meustrus and TangledLion each get 10 for opposing it.

meustrus' turn.
Gack! Sorry for the delay. This game has really slowed down. Let's speed it up a bit shall we?

Proposal 310: Amendment to rule 201: Following the passage of this rule, the next two players in alphabetical order by username will begin their turns simultaneously. Following the end of every player's turn, the player(s) whose username follows alphabetically a user currently taking a turn (including the player(s) whose turn is ending) shall begin a new turn. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be omitted. All players begin with zero points.
...there is no editing grace period is there? I only changed "At the end of every player's turn..." to "Following the end...". Just to make it clear the the new turn starts right after the previous one ended.
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
You're not really supposed to edit posts; you should have just posted your amendment in your post after the first, but I guess on this occasion I can let it slide since it was only a minor edit.

I'm not a fan of this proposal. It's gonna make the game more of a clusterfuck than I'd enjoy. :P That said, I guess it would be interesting having two proposals going on at once.
This Idea, in my humble opinion, is almost as bad as Maker$core...
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
YOU TAKE THAT BACK MAKESCORE WAS AN AMAZING IDEA INSPIRED BY THE GODS AND YOU KNOW IT
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
It's unclear from the wording whose turn comes next after each person's turn finishes. Let's say me and Meustrus are taking our turns, and Meustrus's turn ends. I assume Shinan goes next? Then Shinan's turn ends, and my turn is still going... does TangledLion go next, or does Meustrus go next, or both, or do we flip a coin? They're both alphabetically after a player currently taking a turn.

I would recommend redesigning this to have two totally separate cycles of turns. Each time a turn ends, the next player alphabetically after the player whose turn just ended takes a turn. If the turn cycles move at different speeds, then yes, this could potentially result in someone getting two turns at once. However, it's much simpler to keep track of.

I like the idea, it will definitely increase the speed of the game, and add some crazy possibilities. Nomic is supposed to be a clusterfuck, after all.
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
It isn't actually unclear at all; meustrus specifically covered that possibility. "Following the end of every player's turn, the player(s) whose username follows alphabetically a user currently taking a turn (including the player(s) whose turn is ending) shall begin a new turn."

If you and meustrus are taking your turns, and meustrus' turn ends, the player whose username follows alphabetically the user currently taking a turn (including you) is Shinan. Shinan's turn ends and yours is still going, the player whose username follows both yours and Shinan's is TangledLion. It wouldn't be meustrus again because that would fail to be the user alphabetically following Shinan.
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
Actually since the clause is separated into each user, meustrus would in fact go again after you. So yeah, you've got a point.

Do what LockeZ said meustrus. :P
I was intending to make it possible to expand the number of turns happening at once. But I can see that the wording causes confusion. In addition I did not intend to allow people to take two turns at once. How about this?

Proposal 310: Amendment to rule 201: Following the end of every player's turn, new player(s) will begin a turn as follows:

1. For each player currently taking a turn (including the player(s) whose turns are ending), select the player whose username follows alphabetically that player.
2. Every such player that is not currently taking or concluding his or her turn shall begin a new turn.

Following the passage of this rule, the next two players in alphabetical order by username will begin their turns simultaneously. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be omitted. All players begin with zero points.
The idea behind expanding the number of turns happening at once: If Shinan and TangledLion are currently taking their turns, after one of their turns is over, Trihan begins a turn. If Shinan finished first, then when either TangledLion or Trihan finishes, DrOctopus gets a turn. But if TangledLion finished first, then when either player finishes then DrOctopus AND TangledLion both begin new turns. And we have three turns going on at once.

So if the finishers were TangledLion, then Shinan, you've got TangledLion, Trihan, and DrOctopus going all at once. No matter who finishes, only LockeZ will start a new turn because Trihan and DrOctopus are already taking a turn.

But if the finishers were TangledLion, then Trihan, you've got Shinan, TangledLion, and DrOctopus going all at once. The next time someone finishes a turn, Trihan and LockeZ will both start new turns.

It's also possible for two turns to end simultaneously since I could easily cast the final vote for everyone's proposal at the same time. If the current turn is TangledLion, Trihan, and DrOctopus, and I do that...well then only LockeZ starts a turn and we're back to normal aren't we?

So here are some intended side effects:

1. Players are incentivized to take their turns quickly, because if TangledLion finishes his turn before Shinan does, he gets an extra turn soon.
2. If players take too long, we may end up with more players taking turns at once.
3. Whose turn it is becomes more confusing and frantic.
4. We might potentially end up with all players taking a turn simultaneously. Not very likely, but it would be hilarious if it actually happened.
5. If we all decide we're tired of having multiple turns at once, then as long as nobody votes for one open proposal but not the other it is possible to practically repeal this rule without a rule change.
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
Sure, that's just crazy enough that I can get behind it. I've given up on trying to prevent this becoming chaos. :P
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
That... will result in two turns starting after every turn. We'll have one turn at first, then two, then three, then four, then finally all five of us will be having a turn at once. This isn't unlikely at all - it's guaranteed to happen at most eight turns from now, and from then on we'll simply alternate between four and five players taking a turn at once.

Also, it wouldn't incentivize people to take their turns fast. It would, in fact, incentivize some people to intentionally stall, to try to control whose turn happens next. Nor would your side-effect of people being able to effectively cancel out this rule by just not voting on someone's proposal work out, because there's a time limit on voting (and also several other reasons).

This leaves way too much unspoken and unclear. I would rather the turn order not be something we actually have to argue about after every turn, as that will take a lot of extra time. It will also result in Trihan being the judge way too often, probably 100% of the time in fact, since we'll never be able to agree on any other method of deciding who the "preceeding" player refers to.

Speeding up the game and giving people the potential ability to get two turns fairly close together seems useful and interesting enough without all this other hogwash.
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
That's a good point, I don't really want to be called as a judge every turn. :P

Maybe just make it so that starting after the proposal passes two people take turns at the same time, and just specify that players can only take one turn per round to prevent them getting more than one?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
The hell do you define a "round"?
It's not too confusing to me, but then that might just be how my mind works. Anyway I don't foresee us getting too easily into the situation where everyone is taking a turn at once. In fact the only way we'll end up with more than one turn at a time after the start condition is if people intentionally vote for one proposal but abstain from the other temporarily. Which I intend to do. I can see how that might be a problem though, with players waiting for each other to vote to create the desired outcome. Any solutions that wouldn't break the "clusterfuck" spirit of this rule?

The issue with "preceding player" might be a bit thorny though. Can I rectify that in this rule change or does it need to be an amendment to rule 211? It seems to me the simplest solution to that unintended consequence would be to specify that "preceding player" means "preceding alphabetically" rather than by turn order.