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RPG MAKER MV IS A LARGE STEP BACKWARDS
Posts
LightningLord2
230
LightningLord2
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Closeauthor=Liberty
Well, just the fact that you can now embed games to be played over a browser means a lot to some people, which I think freank was getting at. Granted all we can see is a rather typical battle system. Who knows? The game might be pretty good. :shrug:
Well I agree you can only evaluate RPG Maker games by actually playing them. But I suppose there's a plus in the author having put effort in making a custom UI.
I think MV focused on changing the wrong things, and when it changed things, it really didn't do what it promised.
Did they ever do anything about the Sonic 2006 experience when playing html5 mv games? I only tried the demo of it before mv was released but it was so bad I wouldn't want anybody playing a game that way much less anyone I managed to sucker into playing anything I made.
e: someday I'll remember it's mv instead of mx but today will not be that day
e: someday I'll remember it's mv instead of mx but today will not be that day
http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/topic/55529-rpg-maker-user-survey/
Here, they have a survey that you can fill in about your RM experience. Including complaining about stuff. Use it to make them make the next RM a better one, you know, instead of complaining here and actively not doing anything to give them feedback and all. ^.^)b
Here, they have a survey that you can fill in about your RM experience. Including complaining about stuff. Use it to make them make the next RM a better one, you know, instead of complaining here and actively not doing anything to give them feedback and all. ^.^)b
author=Liberty
http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/topic/55529-rpg-maker-user-survey/Here, they have a survey that you can fill in about your RM experience. Including complaining about stuff. Use it to make them make the next RM a better one, you know, instead of complaining here and actively not doing anything to give them feedback and all. ^.^)b
The overall problem with MV is that the developers barely listened to feedback at all and rushed the thing out, but meh, I filled that thing out anyway.
If they didn't listen to Nessiah's feedback then they certainly won't give a fuck about mine. At least here somebody might read my post and nod sagely in silent agreement before moving on to doing anything else.
i filled it out but i agree with ratty/grs. from what i can tell, degica staff are just as frustrated as we are. a big fucking shame. i made it very clear in the last box that i would never pre-order a kadokawa product again and will probably never purchase any 48x48 resources.
There's... a thing... well, you'll hear about it eventually. Yes, the Degica staff are super annoyed but there's a reason they're collecting this information on behalf of the company, so... at least it's a chance to change things. Maybe. Better to put your thoughts in than not.
Yeah, sounds like this is an issue between the original developers and the people releasing it, and the people releasing it might, hopefully, eventually be able to do something with the feedback? In any case, I filled it out as well.
fuck it
1. How many years have you been using RPG Maker?
9+
fuck me (I started in the kanjihack days with RM2 although it was more playing with the editor than any sort of dedicated attempt at making a game. I did google the name to make sure I rememberd it right and even saw Asperta post some reminiscing on the RMW forums which was neat.)
2. How many finished games have you released with RPG Maker?
3 where I was lead: The Most Pointless Game Ever, Demon's Gate, and Altima
Commercial Shit
no
5. How many hours, on average, per week do you spend using RPG Maker?
0-5
6. On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate your skill with...
Editor: 6
Scripting: 7
Visual Resource Creation: 2
Audio Resource Creation: 2
Game Writing: 3
Game Mechanics: 4
7. Have you ever abandoned a project, if yes, which of the following was a factor in abandoning that project? (Select all that apply.)
Checked everything and other was "Made bad games that need to die in fires"
8. On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate RPG Maker in the following categories.
Ease of Use (Simple): 8
Ease of Use (Complex): 3
Power: 4
Flexibility: 4
Community Support: what? I just threw in 5
Developer Support: 1
9. On a scale of 1-10, rate the importance of the following categories to you in regards to a Game Engine.
Ease of Use (Simple): 10
Ease of Use (Complex): 7
Power: 4
Flexibility: 7
Community Support: still a 5
Developer Support: 7
Hooray for arbitrary numbers!
10. In which of the following areas do you fell that RPG Maker needs to improve? (Select all that apply)
I checked everything but community support
11. On a scale of 1-10, rate the following tools in RPG Maker.
Map Editor: 4
Event Editor: 6
Database Editor: 4
Plugin Manager: 5
12. Which of the following tools do you feel needs improvement in RPG Maker?
Checked all but plugin manager, and that's more because it's the easiest to work around
13. What one existing feature in RPG Maker would you change, and how would you change it?
I'd completely overhaul the map editor. XP's was a step in the right direction but still aged and in dire need of improvement but VX/Ace/MV's map editor is the entirely wrong direction to take. It went too far to trying to streamline map creation and forces unneeded rigidity to maps and gives no support to anybody who wants to try anything else. Mapping and the tile system need an overhaul to give more power to game developers instead of forcing the vision of the RPG Maker developers onto their user base.
14. What feature do you feel is missing in RPG Maker, and how would you want it implemented?
Support for plaintext data files like JSON or XML files that the engine can parse and associate with entries in the database. The notebox has been commandeered by scripters as a poor man's data file for database entries and that this persisted to MV is beyond me. MV even uses JSON files for its own internal database entries! I'm using a JSON parser in my Ace projects and I embed all kinds of data in that from individual flags to stat arrays to localization strings. It's very simple but also very robust with how easy it is to add additional parameters to database objects without having to deal with parsing data in the notebox (or items that don't have noteboxes) and editing plaintext data files is much better than the editor's notebox field too.
It isn't as glamorous as other features I'd love to have (instanced equipment and states instead of static ones would be another favorite) but it's one of the bedrocks of my scripts that I use.
15. If you have any additional statements or suggestions you would like to make to the developers of RPG Maker, type them in the comment box below.
The most frustrating part of RPG Maker is how its development over iterations is like its dancing in the mud. It can't make progress because every step forward is mired by taking another back and it'll have to be dragged out by others to get out of its hole. The smartest thing the developers of RPG Maker can do is look to what the previous iterations of RPG Maker could do that the current one can't, look at what the community has created to overcome shortcomings, and look at what the games industry, both big and indie, has done in creating the latest RPGs.
The best RPG Makers have been ones that have significantly improved on the past iteration while maintaining the ease of use RPG Maker is known for. 2k was revolutionary over 95 because it was incredibly far more flexible than 95 and expanded on every feature except asset resolution. Ace was a hit over VX for similar reasons, like adding the trait system to give control over things that previous makers kept entirely internal and out of developer control (rip using VX's map system though). The greatest addition, scripting in XP, should've been another great addition but it abandoned too many past features expecting scripters to re-implement them for other users. XP also suffered from a horrible implementation of its runtime engine too having to run at an awkward and screen tearing 40 FPS with software rendering while 2k(3) ran much smoother with hardware acceleration. The same thing is happening with MV (although personally multiplatform deployment ain't much to me).
The developers of RPG Maker continue to do their own thing completely detached from their user base. Is it any small wonder when they dance in shit people don't like the way they smell?
1. How many years have you been using RPG Maker?
9+
fuck me (I started in the kanjihack days with RM2 although it was more playing with the editor than any sort of dedicated attempt at making a game. I did google the name to make sure I rememberd it right and even saw Asperta post some reminiscing on the RMW forums which was neat.)
2. How many finished games have you released with RPG Maker?
3 where I was lead: The Most Pointless Game Ever, Demon's Gate, and Altima
Commercial Shit
no
5. How many hours, on average, per week do you spend using RPG Maker?
0-5
6. On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate your skill with...
Editor: 6
Scripting: 7
Visual Resource Creation: 2
Audio Resource Creation: 2
Game Writing: 3
Game Mechanics: 4
7. Have you ever abandoned a project, if yes, which of the following was a factor in abandoning that project? (Select all that apply.)
Checked everything and other was "Made bad games that need to die in fires"
8. On a scale of 1-10, how would you rate RPG Maker in the following categories.
Ease of Use (Simple): 8
Ease of Use (Complex): 3
Power: 4
Flexibility: 4
Community Support: what? I just threw in 5
Developer Support: 1
9. On a scale of 1-10, rate the importance of the following categories to you in regards to a Game Engine.
Ease of Use (Simple): 10
Ease of Use (Complex): 7
Power: 4
Flexibility: 7
Community Support: still a 5
Developer Support: 7
Hooray for arbitrary numbers!
10. In which of the following areas do you fell that RPG Maker needs to improve? (Select all that apply)
I checked everything but community support
11. On a scale of 1-10, rate the following tools in RPG Maker.
Map Editor: 4
Event Editor: 6
Database Editor: 4
Plugin Manager: 5
12. Which of the following tools do you feel needs improvement in RPG Maker?
Checked all but plugin manager, and that's more because it's the easiest to work around
13. What one existing feature in RPG Maker would you change, and how would you change it?
I'd completely overhaul the map editor. XP's was a step in the right direction but still aged and in dire need of improvement but VX/Ace/MV's map editor is the entirely wrong direction to take. It went too far to trying to streamline map creation and forces unneeded rigidity to maps and gives no support to anybody who wants to try anything else. Mapping and the tile system need an overhaul to give more power to game developers instead of forcing the vision of the RPG Maker developers onto their user base.
14. What feature do you feel is missing in RPG Maker, and how would you want it implemented?
Support for plaintext data files like JSON or XML files that the engine can parse and associate with entries in the database. The notebox has been commandeered by scripters as a poor man's data file for database entries and that this persisted to MV is beyond me. MV even uses JSON files for its own internal database entries! I'm using a JSON parser in my Ace projects and I embed all kinds of data in that from individual flags to stat arrays to localization strings. It's very simple but also very robust with how easy it is to add additional parameters to database objects without having to deal with parsing data in the notebox (or items that don't have noteboxes) and editing plaintext data files is much better than the editor's notebox field too.
It isn't as glamorous as other features I'd love to have (instanced equipment and states instead of static ones would be another favorite) but it's one of the bedrocks of my scripts that I use.
15. If you have any additional statements or suggestions you would like to make to the developers of RPG Maker, type them in the comment box below.
The most frustrating part of RPG Maker is how its development over iterations is like its dancing in the mud. It can't make progress because every step forward is mired by taking another back and it'll have to be dragged out by others to get out of its hole. The smartest thing the developers of RPG Maker can do is look to what the previous iterations of RPG Maker could do that the current one can't, look at what the community has created to overcome shortcomings, and look at what the games industry, both big and indie, has done in creating the latest RPGs.
The best RPG Makers have been ones that have significantly improved on the past iteration while maintaining the ease of use RPG Maker is known for. 2k was revolutionary over 95 because it was incredibly far more flexible than 95 and expanded on every feature except asset resolution. Ace was a hit over VX for similar reasons, like adding the trait system to give control over things that previous makers kept entirely internal and out of developer control (rip using VX's map system though). The greatest addition, scripting in XP, should've been another great addition but it abandoned too many past features expecting scripters to re-implement them for other users. XP also suffered from a horrible implementation of its runtime engine too having to run at an awkward and screen tearing 40 FPS with software rendering while 2k(3) ran much smoother with hardware acceleration. The same thing is happening with MV (although personally multiplatform deployment ain't much to me).
The developers of RPG Maker continue to do their own thing completely detached from their user base. Is it any small wonder when they dance in shit people don't like the way they smell?
The publisher has no control what goes into the game, this is up to the developer.
Enterbrain can do whatever they want, and Degica will just bend over and take it, so to say.
Hey guys, check this shit out: http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/forum/146-rpg-maker-mv-improvement-boards/
Wanna make some improvements? Suggest them. Seems the publishing dev team got the go-ahead to fix things as they like, so... Instead of complaining here, actually give them some input on what you'd like fixed and how you'd do so.
You might be surprised by the outcome.
^.^)b
Wanna make some improvements? Suggest them. Seems the publishing dev team got the go-ahead to fix things as they like, so... Instead of complaining here, actually give them some input on what you'd like fixed and how you'd do so.
You might be surprised by the outcome.
^.^)b
ubon
66
it's kind of interesting how much this feels like when vx came out
like, vx also tried to make some pretty big departures from the last title, and was received poorly by a lot of people. people got talking about improvements they'd want, and vx ace came out with much better implementations of the things vx was trying to do
I haven't given MV a shot yet but I feel pretty optimistic about this anyway, just going by the whole pattern. it helps that the developers are much more aware of + involved with the userbase now, too.
like, vx also tried to make some pretty big departures from the last title, and was received poorly by a lot of people. people got talking about improvements they'd want, and vx ace came out with much better implementations of the things vx was trying to do
I haven't given MV a shot yet but I feel pretty optimistic about this anyway, just going by the whole pattern. it helps that the developers are much more aware of + involved with the userbase now, too.
no they're not. degica is not the developers. the devs are kadokawa. that's the whole problem!
also vx was better than xp on a wide variety of levels, especially internally (like, the actual runtime engine). it was only the mapping that was a downgrade.
also vx was better than xp on a wide variety of levels, especially internally (like, the actual runtime engine). it was only the mapping that was a downgrade.
ubon
66
I know degica aren't the developers -- I'm taking the actual developers' establishment of a much less fire-and-forget sort of branding presence, contracted or otherwise, as a sign of interest
maybe I'm wrong but hey
maybe I'm wrong but hey
i mean i'm definitely happy with having support in this hemisphere, yeah. i just wish it would have meant something BEFORE they made and released a backwards product after the fairly excellent Ace ;V
Today I found out the ui framework that mv uses is powered by hamsters because drop downs with too many items in them takes time to render. For comparison I opened Ace and MV with the same number of items in the DB (999) and made a Change Item event command and looked at the time it took to open the selection dropdown. Ace was instantaneous and MV... was not.
It's depressing, it's nice to see them try and take action to improve MV but this isn't the kind of thing you just pop in and out and I can't see it being patched. Now it's just a case of mitigation instead of improvement. I'd much rather have a robust combobox editor that could display the ID and name with autocomplete instead of a jerryrigged switch selection view to try and deal with the dropdown's lag.
I can open the editor and go to the items pane faster than it takes for the drop down to render. What a piece of junk.
e: I know comparing a multiplatform framework vs a native one isn't very fair and I don't have any personal experience building low level ui elements, I'm just annoyed that it's still a thing nowadays.
It's depressing, it's nice to see them try and take action to improve MV but this isn't the kind of thing you just pop in and out and I can't see it being patched. Now it's just a case of mitigation instead of improvement. I'd much rather have a robust combobox editor that could display the ID and name with autocomplete instead of a jerryrigged switch selection view to try and deal with the dropdown's lag.
I can open the editor and go to the items pane faster than it takes for the drop down to render. What a piece of junk.
e: I know comparing a multiplatform framework vs a native one isn't very fair and I don't have any personal experience building low level ui elements, I'm just annoyed that it's still a thing nowadays.
If you check the link I posted before you'll see that they're actually working on changing it so it doesn't lag as much (by changing that whole system part.)
I believe one or the major contributors to all the lag and issues with MV is that the engine itself was coded in a different language than RMs of the past were, and that's made certain aspects more clunky and others just not possible without a lot of effort going into them.
You know what's funny? This is what the Japanese peeps usually have to go through before we see the product released in English, except this time we got MV first so we have all the clunkiness that the Japanese audience have to put up with when they get it first. XP
Granted, MV is quite a bit clunkier than the previous versions, but at least they didn't just dump and roll. That said, again, check out this link to post what you would like fixed. There's even a translation error area for the different language translations (for those of you who aren't native English): http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/forum/146-rpg-maker-mv-improvement-boards/
I believe one or the major contributors to all the lag and issues with MV is that the engine itself was coded in a different language than RMs of the past were, and that's made certain aspects more clunky and others just not possible without a lot of effort going into them.
You know what's funny? This is what the Japanese peeps usually have to go through before we see the product released in English, except this time we got MV first so we have all the clunkiness that the Japanese audience have to put up with when they get it first. XP
Granted, MV is quite a bit clunkier than the previous versions, but at least they didn't just dump and roll. That said, again, check out this link to post what you would like fixed. There's even a translation error area for the different language translations (for those of you who aren't native English): http://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?/forum/146-rpg-maker-mv-improvement-boards/
You beat me before I edited the multiplatform vs native part because yeah, that's definitely a standout factor in this (and the time investment that goes into it, MS invested a lot more into the Windows Presentation Framework that I use at work than, well, most other ui frameworks I'd imagine).
We'll see how it turns out but half those threads make me real thirsty so I'll just peace out.
We'll see how it turns out but half those threads make me real thirsty so I'll just peace out.
