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PRESIDENT TRUMP
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CloseMe and my brother are excited that Jill Stein and Bernie Sanders got on and now will get some cash which is at least a good step.
Aegix_Drakan
6037
This just goes to show that when people are dying of thirst, they will drink poison, or drink other people's blood, anything.
DNC, you dun fucked up. The people were fed up of business as usual, tired of being sold up shit creek, and you gave them a business as usual, arrogant candidate who is totally cool with selling the people out for business reasons. Of course people are going to cling to the snake oil salesman who promises to fix everything. These idiots in their little bubble have only themselves to blame for setting themselves up for failure.
Speaking as a Canadian, you all have my sympathies. Here's hoping that the buffoon actually does stand against the TPP and keeps his finger the hell away from the nuclear launch codes.
And for all of you who are "different" in some way, I really seriously hope that the wave of enabled assholes coming out of the woodwork don't hurt you or screw you over. :( Because I'm very concerned about these kinds of people thinking they can get away with hurting others due to the victim being "different" in some way.
Best of luck, guys. :(
DNC, you dun fucked up. The people were fed up of business as usual, tired of being sold up shit creek, and you gave them a business as usual, arrogant candidate who is totally cool with selling the people out for business reasons. Of course people are going to cling to the snake oil salesman who promises to fix everything. These idiots in their little bubble have only themselves to blame for setting themselves up for failure.
Speaking as a Canadian, you all have my sympathies. Here's hoping that the buffoon actually does stand against the TPP and keeps his finger the hell away from the nuclear launch codes.
And for all of you who are "different" in some way, I really seriously hope that the wave of enabled assholes coming out of the woodwork don't hurt you or screw you over. :( Because I'm very concerned about these kinds of people thinking they can get away with hurting others due to the victim being "different" in some way.
Best of luck, guys. :(
Dyhalto
7536
author=J-Man
Look on the bright side, Lisa Simpson will be the next president if things are going according to the grand plan! :P
I was thinking about that the other day x)
But since Lisa Simpson doesn't exist, I'll place my bet on Elizabeth Warren.
author=kory_toombs
Maybe it's because I'm from Canada that my mentality about third parties is different. Because a vote for a third party can still get you a seat in parliament in Canada, if not a majority / minority government.
Yeah, but that's because we actually have a third party that can gain ground.
I use "third party" incorrectly. I should've said "fringe party".
author=Jeroen_Sol
There is no Left in America. Bernie Sanders was the only real left candidate, but the DNC screwed him over.
He screwed himself over. He never went after Clinton over the emails in the very beginning when people first heard about it and gave a hoot. He never pressed her on issues like a Wall Street sales tax or student loan reform. People treated him with respect and even liked him, whereas Hillary was universally reviled. It would have been an easy victory if he only wanted it.
But that's the DNC's inner machinations at work. A favor here, a payoff there, rub my back and I'll rub yours. They're a totally corrupt organization.
author=Craze
You can say nothing will change but I believe this could be a jumping board we can use to have a wider ticket.
author=Housekeeping
Maine also passed ranked-choice voting, which will hopefully be an in-road for other states after seeing its effect. If you want to have third parties, that's how it pretty much has to happen.
Guys, we don't want a wider ticket for the sake of a wider ticket.
What we all want as individuals is just one party that represents everything we can vote confidently for. It's not that a Chinese one-party system is the answer, but that parties should arise out of a need for change rather than the novelty of having umpteen candidates on the ballot, as if a greater selection is automatically better.
Definitely right about the Right vs Left dichotomy that's foisted on us by the media, though. But with the effect Bernie had on the Democratic nomination dialogue, we're starting to see the seedlings of a new party, and it's arising out of a need for change.
Although it'll probably consume the Democratic Party before it becomes a defacto third choice. Which is fine.
A shake up on both sides is a good thing. The further away we get from personality, celebrity (Trump), and connections (Clinton), and the closer to issues and philosophy, the better. I think if this had been Cruz vs Sanders, we would have witnessed a true ideological debate. No such debate happened this time around.
author=harmonic
A shake up on both sides is a good thing. The further away we get from personality, celebrity (Trump), and connections (Clinton), and the closer to issues and philosophy, the better. I think if this had been Cruz vs Sanders, we would have witnessed a true ideological debate. No such debate happened this time around.
I actually think a focus on philosophy and ideology got pretty soundly refuted in this election. Working class voters don't care about it and they're where this election turned. Trump (rightly) spoke to their anxieties, and whether you think he'll keep his promises or not it had more of an impact than lip-service to conservative values.
RedMask
1139
Don't lose hope everyone.
If you are a liberal American like me, guess what there are ways to fight back my friends.
I volunteer for WolfPac
Wolf-Pac
The group aims to stop corruption in our government by stopping bribes with an amendment to the Constitution.
That's ofcourse just one way to fight back, there are all sorts of ways to get active in politics. Make your voice heard! Many are already protesting the election in cities across America.
Join a protest, Join a group, run for local elections yourself, Do something! If we stand united we can make a difference.
Keep hope alive!
If you are a liberal American like me, guess what there are ways to fight back my friends.
I volunteer for WolfPac
Wolf-Pac
The group aims to stop corruption in our government by stopping bribes with an amendment to the Constitution.
That's ofcourse just one way to fight back, there are all sorts of ways to get active in politics. Make your voice heard! Many are already protesting the election in cities across America.
Join a protest, Join a group, run for local elections yourself, Do something! If we stand united we can make a difference.
Keep hope alive!
@Dyhalto: I want to say Bernie didn't screw himself over, but it's true his campaign tactics didn't do him many favors. While it's easy to criticize his approach, you have to remember why he did things that way in the first place. He wasn't just campaigning against Clinton, but the entire corrupt system. He wanted to show that a campaign could be run with legitimate tactics instead of underhanded mud-slinging and media payoffs. Considering how far he got in spite of the odds stacked against him, he showed the method has merit. If the DNC weren't a broken organization, it surely would've worked out differently.
While many are scared and dreading the next four years, I think this is the wake-up call the nation needed. It's not going to fix itself.
While many are scared and dreading the next four years, I think this is the wake-up call the nation needed. It's not going to fix itself.
author=RedMask
Don't lose hope everyone.
If you are a liberal American like me, guess what there are ways to fight back my friends.
I volunteer for WolfPac
Wolf-Pac
The group aims to stop corruption in our government by stopping bribes with an amendment to the Constitution.
That's ofcourse just one way to fight back, there are all sorts of ways to get active in politics. Make your voice heard! Many are already protesting the election in cities across America.
Join a protest, Join a group, run for local elections yourself, Do something! If we stand united we can make a difference.
Keep hope alive!
An amendment to stop bribes to the government would make Trump voters extremely happy. That is a bipartisan issue. Only establishment DEMS and REPS want to keep the lobbyist status quo.
Dyhalto
7536
author=halibabica
He wasn't just campaigning against Clinton, but the entire corrupt system. He wanted to show that a campaign could be run with legitimate tactics instead of underhanded mud-slinging and media payoffs.
"Power concedes nothing without a demand" ~ Frederick Douglas.
The problem with Bernie, and with Occupy too if you remember it, is that all he wanted to do was make a statement. It's ridiculous. The only goal in politics is to take power. Trying to do anything less is a halfhearted effort, and apparently we're supposed to be glad for Bernie doing what he did. Screw that. He's a coward and should be forever branded as one.
author=RedMask
I volunteer for WolfPac
Wolf-Pac
The group aims to stop corruption in our government by stopping bribes with an amendment to the Constitution.
Not to poo-poo your efforts, but it's tangibly impossible to stop bribes. Nobody deals with briefcases full of cash anymore. It's done with things like a lucrative job after their public service tenure ends, stock options, a hot tip, or even just toys (boats, cars, etc)) registered in someone else's name, but the bribee has free access to.
And the idea of trying to rally support based on process reform is a blind alley anyway. People say they like it, but they won't come out for it in the numbers you'd need. If you want people's attention, you start with the things they will come out for, like Free College or a $15 Minimum Wage. Once you have people at your backs, then the process reforms can be passed as addendums.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
author=Dyhalto
The only goal in politics is to take power. Trying to do anything less is a halfhearted effort, and apparently we're supposed to be glad for Bernie doing what he did. Screw that. He's a coward and should be forever branded as one.
I'm sorry, but this is false absolute rhetoric. No, the only goal in politics isn't to take power. If it were, there'd be no such thing as lobby groups or advisory councils or multi-party parliament systems where everyone compromises.
Blind
2262
author=Dyhaltoauthor=halibabicaThe problem with Bernie, and with Occupy too if you remember it, is that all he wanted to do was make a statement. It's ridiculous. The only goal in politics is to take power. Trying to do anything less is a halfhearted effort, and apparently we're supposed to be glad for Bernie doing what he did. Screw that. He's a coward and should be forever branded as one.
He wasn't just campaigning against Clinton, but the entire corrupt system. He wanted to show that a campaign could be run with legitimate tactics instead of underhanded mud-slinging and media payoffs.
Do you really blame Bernie for this mess? Do you actually suspect his end-goal was that narrow?
There's no question he was cowardly to so readily concede to the Clinton powerhouse...but I think it's pretty likely he didn't have a choice. They probably threatened his political credibility, offered bribes, placed threats, etc. He didn't focus on dirty or manipulative tactics as much he should have during the primary - I'll give you that much.
The leadership of DNC itself deserves the largest degree of blame IMO. The way in which they commandeered this election was morally irresponsible - and now we can see the sad result.
A coward? I beg your pardon, I think it was very brave of him! He set out to make a difference in a system he was dismayed to be a part of, and the impact of his campaign reaches well beyond his defeat. He inspired a new generation of politicians and the corruption he exposed played a huge role in Clinton's failure. It's just unfortunate (extremely) that this election's stakes were so high with a maniac like Trump on the other end. Bernie stood for what he believed in against impossible odds, and while we may never know how the DNC swayed him to endorse Hillary, I personally think he considered Trump too dangerous and knew the DNC wouldn't let him through regardless. Say what you will, but he was not cowardly.
Not to mention that it'd be hypocritical of him to use the kind of tactics his campaign was meant to protest.
Not to mention that it'd be hypocritical of him to use the kind of tactics his campaign was meant to protest.
Dyhalto
7536
If Bernie had campaigned properly, it would have been a cake walk for him. His opponents were fish in a barrel from the very beginning. I think it's fair to blame him for the outcome, to very a significant degree.
Now there's the off chance that he never wanted the Presidency because it's a stressful job, he's old, and maybe his health isn't the greatest. Therefore, this was kind of a last noble deed in his mind. But even if that were the case, the responsible thing to do would be to back a proper candidate. Not to act as a trashcan for the Not-Hillary vote.
Anyway, casting blame is pointless at this stage.
I know it sounds mean-spirited, but it's the bottom line.
Now there's the off chance that he never wanted the Presidency because it's a stressful job, he's old, and maybe his health isn't the greatest. Therefore, this was kind of a last noble deed in his mind. But even if that were the case, the responsible thing to do would be to back a proper candidate. Not to act as a trashcan for the Not-Hillary vote.
Anyway, casting blame is pointless at this stage.
author=Jeroen_SolNope. The one single goal in politics is to take power, or more specifically, to acquire the ability to get done what you want done. That means taking power. Lobby groups, PACs, et al, they all want their guy in power. The more power accrued, the better.
[I'm sorry, but this is false absolute rhetoric. No, the only goal in politics isn't to take power. If it were, there'd be no such thing as lobby groups or advisory councils or multi-party parliament systems where everyone compromises.
I know it sounds mean-spirited, but it's the bottom line.
You say 'properly' as if there's only one way these things should ever be done. I don't agree with your viewpoint; it's very narrow-minded to me, even if it is the bottom line. Some things are too complex to just boil down like that, but you're free to think what you will. Like you said, the blame game gets us nowhere now.
Rose_Guardian
2346
EDIT:
Actually never mind I am not good at cheering people up. Sorry about that.
You're fine, Rose :) I know where you're coming from.
So here's a lazy hot take: I understand the mentality of ridding Trump voters from your life, unfriending them on Facebook, etc. And, while I don't think anyone should personally be required to put up with someone who has hurt them, I'd say this: these people are your fellow humans. We pass each other on the street and stand next to them at work. If they're your friends or family, they likely care about you, personally, and, hopefully, respect you personally.
Most of them aren't outright racist, sexist in the literal "we are in the KKK sense". Instead, they are lazily racist, sexist - like a lot of us were when we were teenagers, and like a lot of us still are today. They are capable of ignoring outright racism, and capable of underestimating its power and its effects. They won't say terrible things themselves, but they're not really bothered by it, either. They may not understand the implications of supporting a person who is obliquely racist, sexist, homophobic. They don't understand why their implicit support of that hatred affects so many of us and makes so many of us afraid.
And so I'd argue: these are people worth talking to on a real, personal, critical level. Empathize with their thought process and get them to empathize with you. Some people will never change their minds, but... These are people we share the world with, and I believe communication and critical discussion will help create the bonds we need going forward. Take care of yourself and the people around you who need help, first. But, there is a gap to be bridged, and a bridge that needs building. I can't count on anyone else to build it for us.
So here's a lazy hot take: I understand the mentality of ridding Trump voters from your life, unfriending them on Facebook, etc. And, while I don't think anyone should personally be required to put up with someone who has hurt them, I'd say this: these people are your fellow humans. We pass each other on the street and stand next to them at work. If they're your friends or family, they likely care about you, personally, and, hopefully, respect you personally.
Most of them aren't outright racist, sexist in the literal "we are in the KKK sense". Instead, they are lazily racist, sexist - like a lot of us were when we were teenagers, and like a lot of us still are today. They are capable of ignoring outright racism, and capable of underestimating its power and its effects. They won't say terrible things themselves, but they're not really bothered by it, either. They may not understand the implications of supporting a person who is obliquely racist, sexist, homophobic. They don't understand why their implicit support of that hatred affects so many of us and makes so many of us afraid.
And so I'd argue: these are people worth talking to on a real, personal, critical level. Empathize with their thought process and get them to empathize with you. Some people will never change their minds, but... These are people we share the world with, and I believe communication and critical discussion will help create the bonds we need going forward. Take care of yourself and the people around you who need help, first. But, there is a gap to be bridged, and a bridge that needs building. I can't count on anyone else to build it for us.
author=slash
And so I'd argue: these are people worth talking to on a real, personal, critical level. Empathize with their thought process and get them to empathize with you. Some people will never change their minds, but... These are people we share the world with, and I believe communication and critical discussion will help create the bonds we need going forward. Take care of yourself and the people around you who need help, first. But, there is a gap to be bridged, and a bridge that needs building. I can't count on anyone else to build it for us.
And on a pragmatic level, also realize that these people still have voting power. You can't DESTROY ALL TRUMP SUPPORTERS, so unless you want to see Trump and Off Brand Trump and People Like Trump voted into office for the next eternity, we (and especially the DNC) needs to have a long hard look at themselves and each other and start finding some common ground so we can work together.
author=slashYou're fine, Rose :) I know where you're coming from.
So here's a lazy hot take: I understand the mentality of ridding Trump voters from your life, unfriending them on Facebook, etc. And, while I don't think anyone should personally be required to put up with someone who has hurt them, I'd say this: these people are your fellow humans. We pass each other on the street and stand next to them at work. If they're your friends or family, they likely care about you, personally, and, hopefully, respect you personally.
Most of them aren't outright racist, sexist in the literal "we are in the KKK sense". Instead, they are lazily racist, sexist - like a lot of us were when we were teenagers, and like a lot of us still are today. They are capable of ignoring outright racism, and capable of underestimating its power and its effects. They won't say terrible things themselves, but they're not really bothered by it, either. They may not understand the implications of supporting a person who is obliquely racist, sexist, homophobic. They don't understand why their implicit support of that hatred affects so many of us and makes so many of us afraid.
And so I'd argue: these are people worth talking to on a real, personal, critical level. Empathize with their thought process and get them to empathize with you. Some people will never change their minds, but... These are people we share the world with, and I believe communication and critical discussion will help create the bonds we need going forward. Take care of yourself and the people around you who need help, first. But, there is a gap to be bridged, and a bridge that needs building. I can't count on anyone else to build it for us.
I agree with this, while they may not have voted the same of you, they're still likely nice people!! :D
I guess the long & short of my post is: none of us should have to put up with or accept bigotry, but addressing it is going to involve more complexity & critical thought than just tearing into or writing off people who voted for Trump.
Blind
2262
author=slash
And so I'd argue: these are people worth talking to on a real, personal, critical level. Empathize with their thought process and get them to empathize with you. Some people will never change their minds, but... These are people we share the world with, and I believe communication and critical discussion will help create the bonds we need going forward. Take care of yourself and the people around you who need help, first. But, there is a gap to be bridged, and a bridge that needs building. I can't count on anyone else to build it for us.
Yeah, agreed completely.
If we demonize people only by virtue of voting Trump, we're no better than they are. It's the same as insinuating all Hillary voters stand behind her years of shady hypocrisy, the corporatist agenda, etc. It's simply not true - so to take that stance is a bit dehumanizing/reductive. We have to be willing to listen, and bring the moderates to the side of civility and empathy.
There was a very real, tangible basis for a demagogue like Trump to appear, that some liberals underestimate. He appealed to the mounting populist outcry, their working-class struggle, and in some cases, the rejection of multiculturalism in America. By comparison, Hillary had almost zero appeal for true liberals, progressives, and populist working-class. They simply didn't buy into her schtick.
