[MAFIA] SIMPLE MAFIA FOR NORMAL PEOPLE

@Cap I voted for Isrieri to try to get him to explain himself after he dumped psychic info in the thread and then left. Once he had posted enough, I figured he was probably town and thought he wasn't going to get less vague than he had been (I turned out to be wrong and he ended up explaining more later)

author=Isrieri
LockeZ, who do you think is the best choice for a lynch? At this juncture I think your opinion is probably the most vital one before we can make a real decision here.

I'm sticking with Isrieri because he's playing so bizarrely. Aside from his first couple insane posts, this later one is confusing the hell out of me, and I agree with Cap_H's complaint:

author=Cap_H

author=Isrieli
I've got two scumreads right now, and two strong town. InfectionFiles whom I don't really have a read on at this point. Demonlord who might be scum but I don't want to risk finding out today. Everyone else is soft town.

So, your townreads are IF without a reason and Demon, a possible scum. That is little sketchy, do you agree?

Like, what the fuck? Everything Isrieri posts is nonsense. It's like when someone feigns madness to try to make people think they aren't capable of committing a crime. Or like he's trying to make people think, "Scum would never act this suicidal."

After Isrieri, my next choice is Cap_H. So far he's posted that he "trusts" several people, and even said that demonlord is "confirmed" town (implying that he's beyond suspicion for the entire rest of the game, which is crazy). It's too early in the game to be thinking anyone is town, IMO, and especially way too early to be completely sure about it. The most likely reason I think he'd be doing this is if he's trying to buddy up to people. That's a scum play. It's also possible he's just way more trusting than I am, though, so I'd rather go after Isrieri, who is definitely (openly) trying to mislead people about his own intentions for some reason.

As for Gourd, I don't really even get what people don't like about him.

author=Ebeth
Gourd's comment here seems weird to me- especially since he didn't vote to lynch Isieri afterwards.

author=Gourd_Clae
Then, he tops it all off by claiming vanilla town like any respectable god-fearing scum would do. Which is super suspect because he's... not that under fire and no one asked. Welp. Guilty conscience much?

I like that it is the pinnacle of scumminess tho. It's very pure. XD

The "Guilty conscience much?" part is not great reading for someone's guilt in a game where no one dies irl. And of course he's claiming vanilla town- everyone would claim vanilla town if you asked rn them since claing scum would get you lynched day one by town and claiming a Pr would get you killed night 1 by mafia. All of this makes me think Gourd was jumping aboard throwing suspicion on Isieri for his clairvoyant posts but he didn't want to be the first one to lynch since if Is flips town it'd put the suspicion back on him.

Cap's role hunting and badgering is pretty weird too.

I'm gonna give Gourd some time to respond to this and then move my vote to him if he's not convincing enough.

Your argument seems to basically be that he's scum because he's nitpicking Isrieri's posts and then not voting, but all this shit you're talking about is nitpicking his post. And I completely understand the people who don't want to vote because hammer rules are in play. The day phase is insanely way too long and it prevents people from voting because they don't want to "waste potential discussion time." Psy explicitly mentioned not voting because there's so much time left, and Jeroen even asked people not to vote, but Gourd is the one you're after and I don't see what's special about him. Am I missing something?

author=LockeZ
Gourd is the one you're after and I don't see what's special about him. Am I missing something?

The biggest thing I can throw up right now is after demonlord mixed up the rules:

author=Gourd_Clae
cap attracted a lot of attention with jeroen as pr thing since it appeared he had some hidden information. It alarmed me at first!

Of course that's all pretty weak reasoning, but I figured I should share my feelings~

If that's not mafia helping mafia I don't know what is. I don't know why one would phrase it like that. Its reasonable for town to be alarmed by it because laying down power roles early would be super weird, but I don't think anyone would feel the need to point it out that early. Cap might just have been messing around in the day 1 tomfoolery. It tripped all my alarm bells, I figured they must be in cahoots. Since then, they've seemed to be working together to push my lynch.

Gourd's post looked fine to me. I also am pretty convinced Cap is town -- even /scum/ wouldn't know that there isn't a cop at this point and then any cop could've immediately called him out. If Gourd/Cap is scumteam just kill me now. (don't think Ebeth/Isrieri is likely scumteam either but w/e)

Is there any reason I shouldn't just hammer Isrieri? I didn't realize there was a whole other 24 hours left. Although I would kind of like to see where IF and Jero would vote.

I'm kind of working on the theory that one of <Gourd, Isrieri, Jero, Ebeth> has to be scum because no way would scum pass up the opportunity to kill off gourd. So if you want to help me kill Ebeth that's cool, but it's 4 votes on you so it'd take literally everyone else voting that way (including Ebeth) which is making today kind of look concluded. Because I'll definitely swap votes vs eating a nolynch.

Can you explain why you think Gourd is scum, again? Besides working with cap_h? Who I'm pretty certain is town?

I don't know why you're certain he's town. But the majority of it has to do with the quote I posted and the vibe I've been getting from the two of them. Gourd's posts seem to me as though he's trying to look like he's participating in the thread and contributing to discussion with his own reads and takes on posts, but as I've said three times now, it feels as though he and Cap are being opportunistic. They've been quick to call things scummy but not act on it until recently. I think if Gourd were truly town he'd probably be posting a lot like Jeroen has been. I think its odd he's been withholding his vote until we're close to a lynch. None of its solid, obviously. Its just the best I've had to go on, and so I'm running with it.

If you've got some dirt on Gourd, that's one thing. But I don't think you do, and honestly if Cap was mafia, he'd still know there's no cop in play. Its not something I would easily rule out.

Personally I'm confident Jeroen isn't mafia. I don't know why you think so. I mean, the charts, sure I get it. Still he's been smart about his accusations.

I have no dirt on Gourd, he looks neutral as hell to me but I've never been able to read him at all.

I don't think he intentionally made the claim, I think in the process of defending himself he let slip a piece of information "there is no cop" that inadvertently equated to a claim. If he's jailkeeper, backup, or tracker, he would know with certainty there is no cop. (Or he's the cop and did this intentionally but that would be dumb).

Maybe Cap can clarify but I thought what he was doing was trying to goad you into a cop claim so he could yell "AHA, THERE IS NO COP" and nail you. I certainly thought you were trying to claim-without-claiming for a bit.

author=Ebeth
Even discounting the fact that he didn't vote for Isrieri I thought Gourd's post read funny. It's over the top dramatic which might mean nothing but sounded scummy to me.

I mean, this sounds like the type of thing argument doesn't help much. My post was either too dramatic for you and set off alarms or it... didn't.

author=psy_wombats
Although I would kind of like to see where IF and Jero would vote.

I still think Isrieri is town, but I'm not confident about Gourd anymore either. A lynch is definitely better than no lynch though, so if nobody cancels on Isrieri we should lynch him. It does feel weird to me Isrieri is still pursuing Cap after he softclaimed PR, but looking at Isrieri's logic it seems he doesn't realize 3 PRs can actually know there is no cop with 100% certainty.

I was also thinking, assuming Isrieri is town, both scum would have to already be on Isrieri's train or he'd be early-hammered, but that makes no sense on day 1 as early voting is suicidal, so it's probably the other way around. Scum doesn't want to hammer Isrieri as that would draw too much attention.

But that doesn't really give me any information on the people besides me not voting Isrieri, {Isrieri, Ebeth, Psy, IF} as they could either be scum not wanting to hammer, or town legitimately not thinking Isrieri is scum.

Which leads me back to the three people I haven't really been able to get a feel for all day, Infectionfiles, LockeZ and Ebeth.

I'd like to hear more from IF, but I'm feeling better about him than Locke and Ebeth.

LockeZ and Ebeth are rubbing me the wrong way with these last few posts.
LockeZ seems to have no better argument to lynch Isrieri than "He's playing bizarrely." Which granted, it's day 1, but it feels opportunistic to me. He then continues saying he'd like to kill Cap second, but his reasons for doing so feel much stronger and more valid than his reasons for lynching Isrieri to me. So I don't see why he would then want to lynch Isrieri over Cap except Isrieri is easier to lynch.

As for Ebeth:

author=Ebeth
If we were bussing I would have kept my vote on Isrieri or he would jump bandwagon to vote me. The next argument is probably gonna be that we're both scum and buddying up. Buddying up this early would be incredibly stupid. I'm dumb but I'm not that dumb.

I don't like this post one bit. It feels like Ebeth is trying to steer the argument to buddying up on day 1, which is indeed stupid, to skip the more logical answer of "Scum pushing each other to distance themselves but not wanting to bus." I still don't think Isrieri is scum, but Ebeth's looking more likely now.

I would not be opposed to a LockeZ or Ebeth lynch.