Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
YOUR GAME SUCKS
Posts
Darken
3952
Darken
View playlists
CloseAm I wrong for thinking that you can make the game you want to make while still making the game other people want? I guess it's a black or white world if so.
edit: wait this topic is still around what
edit: wait this topic is still around what
S. F. LaValle
1069
post=113078
Again. No.
I try not to be harsh with replies, but I must say that you have completely and utterly missed the point.
Your reply is guided completely by bias against Craze's attitude and does not acknowledge or even address the merits of his arguments. I can kind of understand, he came on really strong with a COMPLETELY INTENTIONAL egotistical tone. Why? Because that is the nature of a wake-up call.
No one is disputing that people who are going to do what they want will continue to do so. This is extremely obvious, to me, to Craze, to everyone. Again, to sum up what Craze said, "If you WANT to be a better RM* developer, HERE IS WHAT I DID TO MAKE IT HAPPEN."
Ironically, you state with certainty that people are going to ignore Craze's advice. This makes you sound egotistical, and wrong, but I'm smart enough to look behind your choice of words and understand that you merely disagree with Craze's attitude and speak out of bias. EDIT: Better put, I recognize that you are merely letting people know you don't like what Craze has said, regardless of merit.
Yeaster
6164
post=113098post=113078I try not to be harsh with replies, but I must say that you have completely and utterly missed the point.
Again. No.
Your reply is guided completely by bias against Craze's attitude and does acknowledge or even address the merits of his arguments. I can kind of understand, he came on really strong with a COMPLETELY INTENTIONAL egotistical tone. Why? Because that is the nature of a wake-up call.
No one is disputing that people who are going to do what they want will continue to do so. This is extremely obvious, to me, to Craze, to everyone. Again, to sum up what Craze said, "If you WANT to be a better RM* developer, HERE IS WHAT I DID TO MAKE IT HAPPEN."
Ironically, you state with certainty that people are going to ignore Craze's advice. This makes you sound egotistical, and wrong, but I'm smart enough to look behind your choice of words and understand that you merely disagree with Craze's attitude and speak out of bias. EDIT: Better put, I recognize that you are merely letting people know you don't like what Craze has said, regardless of merit.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I'm far from biased. What, exactly, would I have to be biased about? I have nothing against Craze. I don't post on the forums enough to have strong feelings towards anyone.
An aspiring developer can/should learn from everyone, even the "bad" developers (if anything, they teach you what NOT to do). Craze's words are certainly helpful, but not law. Even if someone follows everything he says to a T, that does not guarantee that said person is going to have a "successful" game. And if someone chooses to disregard his advice, that doesn't mean they are going to fail either.
Am I wrong for thinking that you can make the game you want to make while still making the game other people want? I guess it's a black or white world if so.
Nope! Not in the least.
I just dislike it when people come off as if what they say is the truth, and that their "advice" is more valid than others, when...it...really isn't, at all
post=113093
Am I wrong for thinking that you can make the game you want to make while still making the game other people want? I guess it's a black or white world if so.
i hear blitzen makes some p cool games that have black and white worlds
S. F. LaValle
1069
post=113104
An aspiring developer can/should learn from everyone, even the "bad" developers (if anything, they teach you what NOT to do). Craze's words are certainly helpful, but not law. Even if someone follows everything he says to a T, that does not guarantee that said person is going to have a "successful" game. And if someone chooses to disregard his advice, that doesn't mean they are going to fail either.
This was a much better reply than your last =) I agree with this, every word. This time, you at least acknowledge what Craze is trying to do.
I just dislike it when people come off as if what they say is the truth, and that their "advice" is more valid than others, when...it...really isn't, at all
This is your reaction to what Craze said, and explains the bias mentioned above. He never said his advice was "be-all-end-all" and he never said his opinion was more valid than others. He only came off this way because you were offended by his raving ego and brought yourself to that conclusion.
All I'm trying to say is that Craze really does mean well, has good advice to give, and like advice from any other source, should be taken with a grain of salt. In Craze's case, I recommend an after-dinner mint as well.
Darken
3952
post=113118
i hear blitzen makes some p cool games that have black and white worlds
ITS ALL ABOUT COLOR IN A BLACKKK ANDD WHITEE WORLDDD OH CHEA IM SEARCHING FOR THOSE PRECIOUS PEARLS
fredo
170
post=113121
This is your reaction to what Craze said, and explains the bias mentioned above. He never said his advice was "be-all-end-all" and he never said his opinion was more valid than others. He only came off this way because you were offended by his raving ego and brought yourself to that conclusion.
All I'm trying to say is that Craze really does mean well, has good advice to give, and like advice from any other source, should be taken with a grain of salt. In Craze's case, I recommend an after-dinner mint as well.
Given the title of this thread, can you blame him for taking Craze's comment as being meant in an 'end-all, be-all" way?
Ultimately, I say people do best at working on things they love. If you love epics, any epic you make will probably be better than other projects, and you're considerably more likely to enjoy making it. And that last part is really what matters, isn't it? I don't care how good my game is, and how awesome the reception turns out to be. I like that I love to work on it. I'll release it because it's a game, and I'd like it if people enjoy it, but at the end of the day I'm not going to work on something that's less than what I love to make, just so that my game can "not suck"
Loving the game you are making and it being good are generally not mutually exclusive. I've played many games (and I mean to a point where I can't count them on my fingers and toes) where the maker had an obvious 'love' for the game. Whether the game is quality is another matter entirely.
Craze isn't making a genre argument. 'Epic' is more a style than an indicator of length, though people often use the word as if it had to be lengthy.
Craze is making the argument that making a long, drawn-out game early in your RM* career is a bad idea. I don't disagree with this. You will likely see many flaws at the start of your first game - this is a part of the process. As you gain a better eye for what you are doing (and this doesn't often take that long), the stuff you create will generally radically improve and more people will be willing to play your games.
As for not caring if your game is good - at the risk of starting a high art vs low art argument - that is silly. Of course you think it has merit. Why bother making it otherwise?
Craze isn't making a genre argument. 'Epic' is more a style than an indicator of length, though people often use the word as if it had to be lengthy.
Craze is making the argument that making a long, drawn-out game early in your RM* career is a bad idea. I don't disagree with this. You will likely see many flaws at the start of your first game - this is a part of the process. As you gain a better eye for what you are doing (and this doesn't often take that long), the stuff you create will generally radically improve and more people will be willing to play your games.
As for not caring if your game is good - at the risk of starting a high art vs low art argument - that is silly. Of course you think it has merit. Why bother making it otherwise?
WolfCoder
3554
post=113052
...What he's saying is, if your goal as a game designer is to have people actually play your game, consider what he has said...
Hit nail on head.
I think a good one-person or small team game developer does a bit of both. That is, they make the game they wanted to make and play themselves, but they try their best to make sure it's enjoyable by at least a handful of people. The maker of TouHou, for example, kind of doesn't really care as he made the games because it's a game he wanted to play. Only the big companies will crank out stuff to please their wide target audience to make the most big bucks.
But then again, his idea of a fun game just happened to be a decent action bullet-hell shooter with kawaii characters.
fredo
170
post=113217
Loving the game you are making and it being good are generally not mutually exclusive. I've played many games (and I mean to a point where I can't count them on my fingers and toes) where the maker had an obvious 'love' for the game. Whether the game is quality is another matter entirely.
I'm not saying loving what you're making automatically makes something good. I mean that generally speaking, if you make two products, one that you love working on, and one that you don't enjoy nearly as much, the one that you loved will be better comparatively.
nickmasterx
83
The funniest and most stereotypical one to me was this game somebody named, "Chrono Trigger". Not Chrono Trigger 2 mind you. And then I clicked on it, went to the page and saw the one screenshot with rtp alex and illegible description LMAO
Also, advertising your game on the board is against the rules. Feel free to submit it to this site if you wish to share it.
Darken
3952
post=113245
I mean that generally speaking, if you make two products, one that you love working on, and one that you don't enjoy nearly as much, the one that you loved will be better comparatively.
How would you know? That is a really hypothetical statement.
