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Feldschlacht IV
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CloseBecause the other topic that I thought we were going to discuss in drowned in a sea of intellectual vomit, I figured to ride on WIP's suggestion and just make a topic flat out discussing this.
We all know that the level of participation in the RM* (and game making) community isn't what a lot of us would like it to be. 'This is a developer community, not so much of a game playing one' is the general sum up of how RM is, and has been for quite some time. Almost everyone here is working on a project, and therefore, everyone here would very much like their projects, demos, and completed gems to be played by the community at large. But this doesn't happen as much as we would like.
So why is this? What can be done to help get games actually played and not just quickly looked at with a 'looks great can't wait to play it'? The typical response of 'this is a developer community that's it deal with it' isn't really going to cut it anymore. Considering that since the release of RMN 3 has done a very admirable job of putting the playability of games up front and has actually gotten me to play (and even *gasp* review!) games, this isn't some sort of irreversible condition. What do you guys suggest in making our games more 'playable', and putting games out in the forefront so YOU, not just 'some other guy', will play them? Discuss.
Also, here's a tidbit I posted a little while back. Toss it in your head a little.
We all know that the level of participation in the RM* (and game making) community isn't what a lot of us would like it to be. 'This is a developer community, not so much of a game playing one' is the general sum up of how RM is, and has been for quite some time. Almost everyone here is working on a project, and therefore, everyone here would very much like their projects, demos, and completed gems to be played by the community at large. But this doesn't happen as much as we would like.
So why is this? What can be done to help get games actually played and not just quickly looked at with a 'looks great can't wait to play it'? The typical response of 'this is a developer community that's it deal with it' isn't really going to cut it anymore. Considering that since the release of RMN 3 has done a very admirable job of putting the playability of games up front and has actually gotten me to play (and even *gasp* review!) games, this isn't some sort of irreversible condition. What do you guys suggest in making our games more 'playable', and putting games out in the forefront so YOU, not just 'some other guy', will play them? Discuss.
Also, here's a tidbit I posted a little while back. Toss it in your head a little.
Also, this may sound stupid and cheesy and all that, but the best way to play an RM game is to enjoy it. Don't just halfmindedly start it up in windowed mode and plug through it just so you can say you did and maybe review it later for some extra pats on the back. Full screen it, plug in that joypad, and have a good god damn time. Immerse yourself and just kick back your feet and relax.
I can guarantee you you'll legitimately enjoy a lot of games a lot more that way.
This is a very difficult topic for a lot of people. Even seasoned veterans like Brickroad have been stymied by this problem. You may create an awesome, wonderful game, you may put your heart and soul into it, but sometimes, the cold hard truth of it is that no one cares but you.
It's not a problem that can really be dealt with. I suppose the best advice would be to appreciate what feedback you do get and be glad that anyone, anywhere enjoyed your work.
It's not a problem that can really be dealt with. I suppose the best advice would be to appreciate what feedback you do get and be glad that anyone, anywhere enjoyed your work.
Maybe we should set up a sister site rpgplayer.net and promote the playing of neo-retro RPGs to the casual market, Nintendo-marketing style, or Big Fish Games like.
Though I have no idea how or where to promote it...
Maybe if we allied ourselves with a big gaming site like IGN or Gamespy we could encourage more players to play. That is, if our little hobby doesn't get laughed out of town...
I've come to accept the fact that RM* is a bit of a fringe player in the whole homebrew game-making/playing scene.
Though I have no idea how or where to promote it...
Maybe if we allied ourselves with a big gaming site like IGN or Gamespy we could encourage more players to play. That is, if our little hobby doesn't get laughed out of town...
I've come to accept the fact that RM* is a bit of a fringe player in the whole homebrew game-making/playing scene.
meh_ch
145
It's just the way this comm is. It's not going to change with whining or wishful thinking. The members here are all indulged in their own little (or big) projects and between this and that don't have time to both work on their own stuff and check out other people's. Not to mention that a lot of games are released here monthly and it takes a while to actually play and finish them all. Or maybe because feedback is slow it might seem nonexistent? Also, quite a lot of people here forget that to be interesting, you have to be interested. If A didn't give a damn about B's game, why should B give a damn about A's game? I think that to fix this whole mess everyone should just freaking agree with each other and cooperate. Do what you can do and hope people follow your example.
It's just the way this comm is.
It's not a problem that can really be dealt with. I suppose the best advice would be to appreciate what feedback you do get and be glad that anyone, anywhere enjoyed your work.
Yeah see, I'm not satisfied with this answer.
'SLAVERY. IT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS'
Any status quo can be changed if enough awareness is raised, discussed, and the little things fall into place. Like I said, given that before certain events I wasn't really inclined to play games whether they were good or not, but now I'm reviewing games, something I thought I'd never do a while back, this is definitely something that can be chipped away on.
Yes. And while I respect it, it was basically summing up why the issue exists, not exactly what to do about it. Granted, I'm not asking for direct solutions from anyone, and your post was fine, but what do you want from me, meh_ch? If I were so inclined, I could deconstruct a lot of those 'reasons', but hey! 'Freaking agree with each other and hope for good stuff to happen' isn't very much of something to go for! Closing our eyes and clicking our heels together ain't really gonna get us anywhere.
We should invest in some advertising space with Google and get Evony's marketing department to orchestrate it (I'm only half joking).
I know that WIP isn't totally satisfied with the site (no developer ever is) but maybe we ought to explore promoting our site to a broader community. Google AdWords or AdServing is one place. What else?
I know that WIP isn't totally satisfied with the site (no developer ever is) but maybe we ought to explore promoting our site to a broader community. Google AdWords or AdServing is one place. What else?
meh_ch
145
Bah, whatever. You just took it out of it's context and made it seem like I was completely at ease with the current situation. I mean, I made my first review recently in hopes of contributing something to this comm.
I have a few suggestions though.
1. Another Let's play something event
2. Maybe stop organizing "make a project" events for awhile? For example that Halloween project idea. Bad.
3. Encourage people to compete for a bigger review count?
I have a few suggestions though.
1. Another Let's play something event
2. Maybe stop organizing "make a project" events for awhile? For example that Halloween project idea. Bad.
3. Encourage people to compete for a bigger review count?
No, I didn't mean to make it seem like that. I'm just saying that taking a 'IT IS HOW IT IS' complacently with the situation is counterproductive. If I misinterpreted your opinion, I apologize.
This has been a serious topic that I have been chewing on for quite some time. I'm not going to go completely in-depth with my thoughts on it at this time.
There are two main types of people: producers and consumers. Producers create something in which a consumer will consume. This is a community of producers. Most people visiting here have a draw to create their own vision. There are other people who are perfectly content with not creating and just consuming what others do.
There is an expectation throughout the community to also consume. I do not agree with this with how the community stands. I play games but I am usually pretty finicky with what I enjoy. But I do love to create and that is what I primarily do.
Now, is this a problem? I think that yes, it is. You have people who are investing a large amount of work and they get very little consumption for their time. Brickroad and his game is a great example of this. I feel it is a very serious issue, if not the biggest one to deal with.
How to fix such a problem? I can't speak for the community as a whole, because that isn't my place. But I can speak for what this site does. The eventual goal I want to accomplish is to attract far more consumers than producers. This site has a fairly good amount of casual visitors, but not enough. I am not sure if the current site is adequate to accomplish this goal, either. kentona's suggestion of having an rpgplayer.net is not a bad one.
There are two main types of people: producers and consumers. Producers create something in which a consumer will consume. This is a community of producers. Most people visiting here have a draw to create their own vision. There are other people who are perfectly content with not creating and just consuming what others do.
There is an expectation throughout the community to also consume. I do not agree with this with how the community stands. I play games but I am usually pretty finicky with what I enjoy. But I do love to create and that is what I primarily do.
Now, is this a problem? I think that yes, it is. You have people who are investing a large amount of work and they get very little consumption for their time. Brickroad and his game is a great example of this. I feel it is a very serious issue, if not the biggest one to deal with.
How to fix such a problem? I can't speak for the community as a whole, because that isn't my place. But I can speak for what this site does. The eventual goal I want to accomplish is to attract far more consumers than producers. This site has a fairly good amount of casual visitors, but not enough. I am not sure if the current site is adequate to accomplish this goal, either. kentona's suggestion of having an rpgplayer.net is not a bad one.
Airemix
100
I think a large part of the problem is that the idea of making your own game and having people talk about it is simply more exciting than the idea of playing some random person's game and giving them feedback. Perhaps if we, as members of the community, tried to put more stress on what we learned from playing other indie games, we could get more people to play them.
So, in our reviews, and when we talk about games on their comment pages, instead of just saying things like, "It's pretty," or, "It's got poor story," also mention, "This game does X really well, and it helped improve my own gamemaking skills." It's an approach that attempts to hook some of the excitement of making your own game into playing other people's. It's not . . . idealistic, perhaps, but I think it seems reasonable.
Thoughts?
So, in our reviews, and when we talk about games on their comment pages, instead of just saying things like, "It's pretty," or, "It's got poor story," also mention, "This game does X really well, and it helped improve my own gamemaking skills." It's an approach that attempts to hook some of the excitement of making your own game into playing other people's. It's not . . . idealistic, perhaps, but I think it seems reasonable.
Thoughts?
Darken
3952
post=99373
So, in our reviews, and when we talk about games on their comment pages, instead of just saying things like, "It's pretty," or, "It's got poor story," also mention, "This game does X really well, and it helped improve my own gamemaking skills." It's an approach that attempts to hook some of the excitement of making your own game into playing other people's. It's not . . . idealistic, perhaps, but I think it seems reasonable.
Thoughts?
Feld suggested something like this years ago just so you know. And uh, you are just saying what a bad review is.
Airemix
100
post=99379
Feld suggested something like this years ago just so you know. And uh, you are just saying what a bad review is.
So what happened? Did just no one do it, or did it fail for some unforseen reason, or what?
post=99346It's just the way this comm is.It's not a problem that can really be dealt with. I suppose the best advice would be to appreciate what feedback you do get and be glad that anyone, anywhere enjoyed your work.
Yeah see, I'm not satisfied with this answer.
'SLAVERY. IT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS'
Any status quo can be changed if enough awareness is raised, discussed, and the little things fall into place. Like I said, given that before certain events I wasn't really inclined to play games whether they were good or not, but now I'm reviewing games, something I thought I'd never do a while back, this is definitely something that can be chipped away on.
This is exactly what I tried to say, but failed miserably.
Darken
3952
post=99399post=99379So what happened? Did just no one do it, or did it fail for some unforseen reason, or what?
Feld suggested something like this years ago just so you know. And uh, you are just saying what a bad review is.
People did notice I guess, some didn't. I don't think what you're suggesting IS GOING TO CHANGE RMN. Because there is still going to be newbies posting unconstructive comments and reviews, because they are new.
