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WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ON "CLICHED" GAMES?
Posts
Chartley
50
Chartley
View playlists
CloseA story doesn't have to be complex or anything. I just has to have style. Style can be achieved in so many ways, but none that I am at liberty to say because I suck. So there!
Style is rather hard to define, I say. But it's very easy to point at. The way I'd define style is something (in this case a story) that is hard to replicate. This does NOT mean that your story has to be complex, or even original, but it should reflect a part of you.
I'm going to unsuccessfully use brandonabley's game "What the Hell" as an example! Obviously, the dude has an interest in music, and you can see that through the game. It was used in puzzles and so and so forth. The truth is, it had nothing to do with the story, but it still made the whole shabang come across as considerably more fresh. If you take away the elements of style from that game, you'd probably unearth a shitty story. Or maybe it was good, I can't remember, but if it had a shitty story, all that style covered its ass. But it still failed because he never finished it!
Okay Abley, you can punch me in the shoulder or something.
Style is rather hard to define, I say. But it's very easy to point at. The way I'd define style is something (in this case a story) that is hard to replicate. This does NOT mean that your story has to be complex, or even original, but it should reflect a part of you.
I'm going to unsuccessfully use brandonabley's game "What the Hell" as an example! Obviously, the dude has an interest in music, and you can see that through the game. It was used in puzzles and so and so forth. The truth is, it had nothing to do with the story, but it still made the whole shabang come across as considerably more fresh. If you take away the elements of style from that game, you'd probably unearth a shitty story. Or maybe it was good, I can't remember, but if it had a shitty story, all that style covered its ass. But it still failed because he never finished it!
Okay Abley, you can punch me in the shoulder or something.
RoseSkye
181
I dont really support cliche'd games.
Yet, let me clear the air on things.
There is a difference between cliche elements, and being cliche.
A spikey haired guy/mop headed hero (norm for alot of jrpgs)
Some kinda paladin, muscly bound medieval talking hero (NArpgs)
Okay yeah.. lets say you look at this game and you think. I still want to play it, yeah why not? Okay lets just say it just has cliche elements (Forgotten Realms: Demon Stone, Final Fantasy 7 had those elements and they were epic)
You notice as you play the game its being so cliche and corny that you are now forcing yourself to play it.
The hero is giving alot of speeches about how friendship overcomes stuff, doing superhuman impossible feats out of nowhere, having a sword that can save the world in one swing, gaining strength from out of nowhere in the middle of a battle.The hero is being emo, being a loner that travels in a group, out of nowhere becomes social and laughs and crap. (JRPG)
The hero is traveling in a group with a bunch of classes (Cleric, Rogue, Paladin.. etc). A villain has no motivation on tyranny committed. Changing your sword makes you stronger as opposed to actually building up your muscle strength. The bigger the sword the stronger you are. In the end of the story the fate of the world lies on one person. (NA and JRPG elements)
Okay lets say those are not enough to drive you away.. (With Legaia 2 I did not want to play it again because of those very elements.. it was just ghastly how corny it was.. I couldnt even keep playing Wild Arms 3 because of the painful clicheness of it.) Those would still be cliche elements if you can see past those similar storylines.
Okay lets go to being cliche.
If your hero, has no motivation to fight besides an enemy that has no motivation to destroy the world but always portrays good morals.
YOU MAY BE REDN.. CLICHE!
If your hero, travels in a party but prefers to be alone.
YOU MAY HAVE A CLICHE GAME
If your hero, is searching for a crystal, a demon, or a reason to be alive
YOU MAY HAVE A CLICHE GAME
If your hero has super powers.. can be shot five times in with a gun and take 50 damage but take one hit from a sword and be killed.
YOU MAY HAVE A CLICHE GAME
If your hero has a giggly bimbo female stereotype in his party.. and is a male. At the same time if that stereotype is useless and only watches on as the hero is massacred by an orge.
YOU MAY HAVE A CLICHE GAME
If your hero has an inner monologue talking about darkness, saying who am I, or questioning if existance is really real.. as if its the deepest thoughts on the planet.
YOU MAY HAVE AN EMO... AND A CLICHE GAME
Yet, let me clear the air on things.
There is a difference between cliche elements, and being cliche.
A spikey haired guy/mop headed hero (norm for alot of jrpgs)
Some kinda paladin, muscly bound medieval talking hero (NArpgs)
Okay yeah.. lets say you look at this game and you think. I still want to play it, yeah why not? Okay lets just say it just has cliche elements (Forgotten Realms: Demon Stone, Final Fantasy 7 had those elements and they were epic)
You notice as you play the game its being so cliche and corny that you are now forcing yourself to play it.
The hero is giving alot of speeches about how friendship overcomes stuff, doing superhuman impossible feats out of nowhere, having a sword that can save the world in one swing, gaining strength from out of nowhere in the middle of a battle.The hero is being emo, being a loner that travels in a group, out of nowhere becomes social and laughs and crap. (JRPG)
The hero is traveling in a group with a bunch of classes (Cleric, Rogue, Paladin.. etc). A villain has no motivation on tyranny committed. Changing your sword makes you stronger as opposed to actually building up your muscle strength. The bigger the sword the stronger you are. In the end of the story the fate of the world lies on one person. (NA and JRPG elements)
Okay lets say those are not enough to drive you away.. (With Legaia 2 I did not want to play it again because of those very elements.. it was just ghastly how corny it was.. I couldnt even keep playing Wild Arms 3 because of the painful clicheness of it.) Those would still be cliche elements if you can see past those similar storylines.
Okay lets go to being cliche.
If your hero, has no motivation to fight besides an enemy that has no motivation to destroy the world but always portrays good morals.
YOU MAY BE REDN.. CLICHE!
If your hero, travels in a party but prefers to be alone.
YOU MAY HAVE A CLICHE GAME
If your hero, is searching for a crystal, a demon, or a reason to be alive
YOU MAY HAVE A CLICHE GAME
If your hero has super powers.. can be shot five times in with a gun and take 50 damage but take one hit from a sword and be killed.
YOU MAY HAVE A CLICHE GAME
If your hero has a giggly bimbo female stereotype in his party.. and is a male. At the same time if that stereotype is useless and only watches on as the hero is massacred by an orge.
YOU MAY HAVE A CLICHE GAME
If your hero has an inner monologue talking about darkness, saying who am I, or questioning if existance is really real.. as if its the deepest thoughts on the planet.
YOU MAY HAVE AN EMO... AND A CLICHE GAME
Chartley
50
:(
All of the above could possibly be great games. A lot of it depends on the "why" fleshy part of the story. The loner hero traveling with a group might be leading his companions to a beasts lair as bait, who knows?
Also, much of these said "cliches", such as the strength/sword correlation exist because they fit gameplay very well. If you're sacrificing quality game elements to avoid cliche's then that is pretty silly!
Also, I'm becoming allergic to the word cliche. We need a new word.
All of the above could possibly be great games. A lot of it depends on the "why" fleshy part of the story. The loner hero traveling with a group might be leading his companions to a beasts lair as bait, who knows?
Also, much of these said "cliches", such as the strength/sword correlation exist because they fit gameplay very well. If you're sacrificing quality game elements to avoid cliche's then that is pretty silly!
Also, I'm becoming allergic to the word cliche. We need a new word.
maladroithim
1495
author=RoseSkye link=topic=906.msg12217#msg12217 date=1208401079
I couldnt even keep playing Wild Arms 3 because of the painful clicheness of it.)
Dude that's about as far from the typical jRPG mold as you can possibly get in terms of setting and characterization (although if you compare it to American cinema in the 60s and 70s you might have a different opinion).
author=Chartley link=topic=906.msg12226#msg12226 date=1208403631
Also, I'm becoming allergic to the word cliche. We need a new word.
CLITCH
Chartley
50
CLITCH
I approve! Perhaps we need a filter, so that whenever someone says "cliche" they're error is corrected. I think that would be the right thing to do.
Also, by definition, Dragon Quest 8 probably has the most unoriginal clitch plot, but it still remains the second best RPG ever. So Nyeh!
RoseSkye
181
author=brandonabley link=topic=906.msg12229#msg12229 date=1208405160author=RoseSkye link=topic=906.msg12217#msg12217 date=1208401079
I couldnt even keep playing Wild Arms 3 because of the painful clicheness of it.)
Dude that's about as far from the typical jRPG mold as you can possibly get in terms of setting and characterization (although if you compare it to American cinema in the 60s and 70s you might have a different opinion).author=Chartley link=topic=906.msg12226#msg12226 date=1208403631
Also, I'm becoming allergic to the word cliche. We need a new word.
CLITCH
If you played as many RPG's.. in general as I have.. somethings would make you look away and cringe. One of those things for me... lectures about friendship and overcoming obstacles. Present in Legaia 2 as well. THE POWER OF LIGHT WILL OVERCOME YOU!
... What? Light..? What is this you're ranting about? I go out in sunlight all the time and unless I look directly into the sun, Im not overcome. Heck, if I stare at any light form it'll make me see spots, but using light as a weapon? What if the enemy buys sunglasses.. what then?
What's better than one huge sword? TWO HUGE SWORDS!
800 pounds of armor on someone with an average body is okay... but we need something more impossible.
Oh yeah, put a little kid in a hundred pounds of metal on the battle field. What's more? Put an almost unarmored girl wearing cat ears behind him to help him fight. I dont know if you guys noticed but if you're cut wearing paper cat ears.. you are not protected... also Armor is reeeally heavy. Ever try running with a suit of armor on? Its hard. Ever try running with a 35 pound sword in your hand? Even harder. Try running with two swords and a suit of armor? Pfft I know some people that can run with them.. but not very fast.
Im all for fantasy games.. but when every game and its mother uses the same laws of physics.. you cant help but wonder why they arent trying to shock us when we're expecting a game to be released like that. When is the last time you played a game with nothing you have ever seen or heard of before... without them looking like they're trying to do it without being so edgy? Im at the point where I can predict almost spot on when someone is going to die.. and its okay if the game is free.. but I like being surprised with the storyline every once in awhile. I dont need the same games force fed to me for 29.99 per game.
Chartley
50
You're worrying about logic and realism waaaay to much, throw that out the window. Do you also hate fables, fantasy books, and science fiction? Because there is nothing realistic about waving wands, or epic space fights. But the value of these things is that they can reflect real life things in a way that entertains us.
And the light and dark thing... that's old, I mean, ancient. That'll never die out, because it's not a story. It's a theme, or more specifically, a metaphor for the good versus evil theme. I don't think themes can be clitches. They can be abused, but always redeemed by a creative person.
And come on, big swords are clearly effective! Could Cloud have beaten ol' Sepherfroth with a steak knife? I don't think so!
ALSO: I'm being an asshole and I apologize!
And the light and dark thing... that's old, I mean, ancient. That'll never die out, because it's not a story. It's a theme, or more specifically, a metaphor for the good versus evil theme. I don't think themes can be clitches. They can be abused, but always redeemed by a creative person.
And come on, big swords are clearly effective! Could Cloud have beaten ol' Sepherfroth with a steak knife? I don't think so!
ALSO: I'm being an asshole and I apologize!
demondestiny
889
author=RoseSkye link=topic=906.msg12236#msg12236 date=1208407684
Im all for fantasy games.. but when every game and its mother uses the same laws of physics.. you cant help but wonder why they arent trying to shock us when we're expecting a game to be released like that. When is the last time you played a game with nothing you have ever seen or heard of before... without them looking like they're trying to do it without being so edgy? Im at the point where I can predict almost spot on when someone is going to die.. and its okay if the game is free.. but I like being surprised with the storyline every once in awhile. I dont need the same games force fed to me for 29.99 per game.
This is because there really isn't a new idea for a game. Now game companies are just making the best possible features they can for there games. You will always know when someone is going to die etc because you've seen it that many times.
author=Chartley link=topic=906.msg12238#msg12238 date=1208410638
Sepherfroth
lol, that word sounds awesome. ;D
RoseSkye, I think you're forgetting that we are controlling little sprites on a screen with numbers that decide every facet of their existence.
Who cares if a kid can wear plate mail and carry a sword larger than his body? In fantastic media we are expected to suspend our disbelief when something unusual happens.
Also, as a side note, the average gear of modern day American infantry is heavier than the heaviest of medieval cavalier knights. And they run a lot.
Who cares if a kid can wear plate mail and carry a sword larger than his body? In fantastic media we are expected to suspend our disbelief when something unusual happens.
Also, as a side note, the average gear of modern day American infantry is heavier than the heaviest of medieval cavalier knights. And they run a lot.
Blitzen
3253
I don't care about cliche. I like fun games. Cliche can be part of the styke that either makes a game suck or makes it fun. The most important thing is fun though. Everything else is erroneous.
I think your use of 'erroneous' was erroneous.
I think you mean 'extraneous' :)
(And I agree wholeheartedly!)
I think you mean 'extraneous' :)
(And I agree wholeheartedly!)
RoseSkye
181
author=Karsuman link=topic=906.msg12245#msg12245 date=1208432435'
RoseSkye, I think you're forgetting that we are controlling little sprites on a screen with numbers that decide every facet of their existence.
Who cares if a kid can wear plate mail and carry a sword larger than his body? In fantastic media we are expected to suspend our disbelief when something unusual happens.
Also, as a side note, the average gear of modern day American infantry is heavier than the heaviest of medieval cavalier knights. And they run a lot.
Not once have I said that we're living a real life in GAME.. using the QUALIFIER 'GAME' should of ended the assumption. Yet, I've implied that game makers in general should try harder to captivate their players with a beautiful story. Not just some weeaboo cliche piece of steamed regurgitated recycled filth. Here Final Fantasy: XZY Its a fangame about a spikey haired hero that fights an evil villian and saves the world.. different weapons this time. I did not mind kingdom hearts, disney characters were something I havent seen together in a rpg game before. In fact I was hooked after CoM.
demondestiny
889
you can't just call games pieces of shit because they have a storyline that is the hero fights evil and saves the world. Just about half the games on this site are games similar to that. As most of the members have said here, mainly every type of game has been thought up of. People are now relying on adding custom features after feature in there games to make them stand out more.
Which is a bad way to do it, demon. Trying to stack more and more useless shit atop a shaky base doesn't net you anything.
Also, captivating a person with a beautiful storyline is but just one way to engage players.
I wish I could understand this logic that an RPG has to have a masterpiece of a story to be worth anything. It's just not true.
Also, captivating a person with a beautiful storyline is but just one way to engage players.
I wish I could understand this logic that an RPG has to have a masterpiece of a story to be worth anything. It's just not true.
maladroithim
1495
author=WIP link=topic=906.msg12353#msg12353 date=1208479120
I wish I could understand this logic that an RPG has to have a masterpiece of a story to be worth anything. It's just not true.
Especially because most of the titles held up as STORY-TELLING ART FORM are actually pretty basic and would barely pass as pulp fiction novels anyway. Whenever I read a brilliant contemporary novel like James Lee Burke I just wonder Jesus Christ can't they just hire this guy to write a video game??? Although I guess they hired a celebrated novelist to write both Gears of War and Lost Odyssey and well look how those turned out.
It's difficult to focus on storyline only when creating a game that is supposedly not cliche. Especially considering how brief you have to keep dialogue in order not to bore and confuse most players.
LoD2 toes the line between its complex political backdrop and being too verbose. It's coming along but I keep having to trim down the fluff dialogue.
LoD2 toes the line between its complex political backdrop and being too verbose. It's coming along but I keep having to trim down the fluff dialogue.
Shadowtext
120
I'm with Him and WIP. One's first goal should be to make an enjoyable experience. Worry about the artistry or the originality after you've got that down.
RoseSkye
181
You guys dont get me.. its like everytime I try to make a point someone puts words in my mouth.
I said I dont mind a cliche game.. that brings something new to the table.
YET! I dont want to play a cliche game.. everytime I play a game. Someone has to break the chains. Its like, I dont mind playing a good Rm2k/3 game.. but when someone sticks with the program (illegally) just because they think its the best maker.. its basically a lost cause. That's like Nintendo staying on 16 bit because there was a fanbase back when it was a hot topic.
I go back to play the original SSB on 64 every once in awhile because it was fun.. but I in no way shape or form think that SSB is better than SSBB or SSBM. It's just they're all fun in they're own way. There is just so much I can play without just sighing and walking away from a game. I prefer playing XP games... well GOOD XP games, because it's nice to see what new things people are trying with the game maker. YET, I've seen 2k for 8 years.. Im not going to just stick with the program because its retro. . Havent you seen the VX advert? PIXEL ART IS AWESOME!
In short, too much aging an piece of bread causes it to go stale. . If you repeat the storyline in a genre too much people will lose interest. There is just so much I can take to seeing the same thing over and over again. There is a difference between being a hardcore gamer and a fanatic gamer. A hardcore gamer would play a game.. no matter what graphics it has just for a new experience. The type that'll play FFVII like it was a visual bible.. A fanatical gamer would play a game as long as its on a familiar basis. If it steers too much from the original game its no longer valid.
I was once a fanatical gamer, now Im just the opposite. It's like eating too much candy.. it gets old.
I said I dont mind a cliche game.. that brings something new to the table.
YET! I dont want to play a cliche game.. everytime I play a game. Someone has to break the chains. Its like, I dont mind playing a good Rm2k/3 game.. but when someone sticks with the program (illegally) just because they think its the best maker.. its basically a lost cause. That's like Nintendo staying on 16 bit because there was a fanbase back when it was a hot topic.
I go back to play the original SSB on 64 every once in awhile because it was fun.. but I in no way shape or form think that SSB is better than SSBB or SSBM. It's just they're all fun in they're own way. There is just so much I can play without just sighing and walking away from a game. I prefer playing XP games... well GOOD XP games, because it's nice to see what new things people are trying with the game maker. YET, I've seen 2k for 8 years.. Im not going to just stick with the program because its retro. . Havent you seen the VX advert? PIXEL ART IS AWESOME!
In short, too much aging an piece of bread causes it to go stale. . If you repeat the storyline in a genre too much people will lose interest. There is just so much I can take to seeing the same thing over and over again. There is a difference between being a hardcore gamer and a fanatic gamer. A hardcore gamer would play a game.. no matter what graphics it has just for a new experience. The type that'll play FFVII like it was a visual bible.. A fanatical gamer would play a game as long as its on a familiar basis. If it steers too much from the original game its no longer valid.
I was once a fanatical gamer, now Im just the opposite. It's like eating too much candy.. it gets old.
