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1st archived artistic content creation thread. For the active thread, click here.
Posts 
Tthedragon
View playlists
CloseI hope everybody had a good holiday break and a Merry Christmas~And ate lotsa food.
I'd hate to go off on a tangent but, Dozen, tell me.
What is your preference to story development or pacing? In relation to a character's story/route, what are the best ways to go about? Looking over at my project, it seems that I've beenscrewing around with everything, and not focusing on the progression itself. Yet, there's alot of character development built on Aisaka and Yukari(who are two out of the three characters I've created). Bottom line is, I don't want it to bore anyone.
Otherwise, is there anything I can help you guys with? ^^
~T
I'd hate to go off on a tangent but, Dozen, tell me.
What is your preference to story development or pacing? In relation to a character's story/route, what are the best ways to go about? Looking over at my project, it seems that I've been
Otherwise, is there anything I can help you guys with? ^^
~T
Dozen
697
Merry Christmaaaas~
And! I can't help with char development unless you give me more info, but we have general rules on pacing.
The two factors of pacing in Heartache are relation and time. As the relationship with the player progresses, new events open up for the audience, thus our reason for including it in the pacing process is clear.
Events tied to relation level above the starting relation are divided among the available events equally, with two exceptions. First, there should be a strong emphasis on the stories after the girl falls in love. Second, every story has a smaller focus on one part beforehand - the emotional peak, if you will, where the audience senses achievement and bonds with the girl. Without the latter, the relationship seems rushed, fake or strained, the users will not feel attached to their adversary and soon will lose the drive to go on, never finishing the game.
For example, in Akari's route, the peak is reached when the relationship is FRIENDLY - getting her to smile at you and open up gives the emotion. In Riho's, it's reached at NEUTRAL, when she stops acting like an asshole and shows she's not that bad once you get to know her. In Mayu's, it's at LIKE, when she finally displays care for others outside her circle of friends.
Now, onto time. Whenever you meet a character limits the number of stories that can be played through with sanitary effort, obviously. The longer the story is within the school, the sooner should the character arrive. Other time related events have no limit; they can appear whenever it feels appropriate, so long their number and the difficulty of checks is within reason.
The combination of various events can lead to secondary ones. When your relation with one or more characters changes the relation between the characters, it's appropriate to include interludes. Interludes in the built-in game only happen when you pursue two characters in relation with each other simultaneously, but there's no reason you shouldn't try something else.
Various combination of decisions and time-related events can lead to sideroutes. These are not important to the main story, but can include additional flavor text and extra character development. Anything you don't want the player know, but can't hurt to have him know should go there.
Annd that's it. If you want me to help with the char development itself, I'd have to know about what kind of characters are we talking about, otherwise I can only bring up random examples that could mess up everything.
And! I can't help with char development unless you give me more info, but we have general rules on pacing.
The two factors of pacing in Heartache are relation and time. As the relationship with the player progresses, new events open up for the audience, thus our reason for including it in the pacing process is clear.
Events tied to relation level above the starting relation are divided among the available events equally, with two exceptions. First, there should be a strong emphasis on the stories after the girl falls in love. Second, every story has a smaller focus on one part beforehand - the emotional peak, if you will, where the audience senses achievement and bonds with the girl. Without the latter, the relationship seems rushed, fake or strained, the users will not feel attached to their adversary and soon will lose the drive to go on, never finishing the game.
For example, in Akari's route, the peak is reached when the relationship is FRIENDLY - getting her to smile at you and open up gives the emotion. In Riho's, it's reached at NEUTRAL, when she stops acting like an asshole and shows she's not that bad once you get to know her. In Mayu's, it's at LIKE, when she finally displays care for others outside her circle of friends.
Now, onto time. Whenever you meet a character limits the number of stories that can be played through with sanitary effort, obviously. The longer the story is within the school, the sooner should the character arrive. Other time related events have no limit; they can appear whenever it feels appropriate, so long their number and the difficulty of checks is within reason.
The combination of various events can lead to secondary ones. When your relation with one or more characters changes the relation between the characters, it's appropriate to include interludes. Interludes in the built-in game only happen when you pursue two characters in relation with each other simultaneously, but there's no reason you shouldn't try something else.
Various combination of decisions and time-related events can lead to sideroutes. These are not important to the main story, but can include additional flavor text and extra character development. Anything you don't want the player know, but can't hurt to have him know should go there.
Annd that's it. If you want me to help with the char development itself, I'd have to know about what kind of characters are we talking about, otherwise I can only bring up random examples that could mess up everything.
author=Dozen
Though in your case, they could be onto something. We were here for years and you never thought it would be important to mention it to us.
Well, there is some doubt about whether I actually have it. When I saw a professional she said I didn't, but that could be because by then I had learned to cope with it (since nobody diagnosed me earlier in life). Only within the last couple months was my family able to convince me XD
If there is one character that I've made that has been absolutely nagging at me to change, it's Kwuabara Emiko. As much as I need to finish Fran, and revise Uchioniko, Emiko needs the revision harder.
The main thing that needs to change is her graphics. They were pretty embarrassing begin with (Hence, the lack of screen-capping!), even if they were a total experiment. Suffice it to say, I'm going to use a more acceptable style. I'm looking mainly at the Pink Elephant models for this revision. This is not to say that altering her story is not on the stack. It totally is. I just don't have a clear plan for her quite yet.
The main thing that needs to change is her graphics. They were pretty embarrassing begin with (Hence, the lack of screen-capping!), even if they were a total experiment. Suffice it to say, I'm going to use a more acceptable style. I'm looking mainly at the Pink Elephant models for this revision. This is not to say that altering her story is not on the stack. It totally is. I just don't have a clear plan for her quite yet.
Dozen
697
I also tried to make one with the open mouth/stoner eye combo, but it looked like she was yawning, so I dropped it. What do you think?
author=DozenI also tried to make one with the open mouth/stoner eye combo, but it looked like she was yawning, so I dropped it. What do you think?
Hm, I'll use the first and second ones. More capability of expression the better. The third one, while I can see that you altered the eyebrows, is not noticably different enough from say the unfriendly image.
Definitly using the first and second ones.
Dozen
697
author=GloopMaster
Hm, I'll use the first and second ones. More capability of expression the better. The third one, while I can see that you altered the eyebrows, is not noticably different enough from say the unfriendly image.
Definitly using the first and second ones.
:D Thank you!!^^ I hope to see her route soon.
author=Dozenauthor=GloopMaster:D Thank you!!^^ I hope to see her route soon.
Hm, I'll use the first and second ones. More capability of expression the better. The third one, while I can see that you altered the eyebrows, is not noticably different enough from say the unfriendly image.
Definitly using the first and second ones.
You're welcome. Currently my attention is somewhat diverted to the SMBX castle contest/event/thing, so there may be some delay before I even get her story to a state I consider fit for a pre-release of sorts.
Nami Momohana v0.1beta here! http://www.sendspace.com/file/gg83i9
Do note that the story is FAR from complete. Tell me what you think about the character.
Contains: story, profile, tachie. No music, can't find anything that goes well with her. I used a builtin sound theme.
Play with clean mode on or off. Makes no difference (at this point)
Do note that the story is FAR from complete. Tell me what you think about the character.
Contains: story, profile, tachie. No music, can't find anything that goes well with her. I used a builtin sound theme.
Play with clean mode on or off. Makes no difference (at this point)
Dozen
697
author=GloopMasterAnother strange one? Isn't that fantastic. Maybe we should name our setting "School for Sufferers of Borderline Clinical Cases of Mental Disorders". Honestly, I half expect a bunch of scientists to pop up and study the area to find out what causes the ridiculous amounts of crazy stuffed into the townies. Not that I'm complaining(or have the right to with my clinical and criminal record), but I find it odd since you probably don't know what else is in development yet.
Nami Momohana v0.1beta here! http://www.sendspace.com/file/gg83i9
Anyway, the first stories are too short; someone this odd should set off the player's inner comments like firestorm. It got better later on, however, and I've seen a lot worse. I'm sure you will have no trouble fixing that. There are also a few typos, but proofing is my job, so unless you want to, don't care about it.
And lastly:
author=GloopMasterCut that shit out, it's not funny. If anything, it's offensive(though only mildly, but I prefer to warn before the situation escalates) to those who use the eastern name order, and anyone with cursory knowledge of Japan. The union of these two categories includes, well, just about everyone here(didn't you notice the names on the ID list?).
# Because that's how Japanese people say names. Don't look at me.
Ah, and in case you disagree, please retort with an argument, not undecipherable swearing or telling me how I suck at something completely irrelevant.
author=Dozenauthor=GloopMasterAnother strange one? Isn't that fantastic. Maybe we should name our setting "School for Sufferers of Borderline Clinical Cases of Mental Disorders". Honestly, I half expect a bunch of scientists to pop up and study the area to find out what causes the ridiculous amounts of crazy stuffed into the townies. Not that I'm complaining(or have the right to with my clinical and criminal record), but I find it odd since you probably don't know what else is in development yet.
Nami Momohana v0.1beta here! http://www.sendspace.com/file/gg83i9
What is in development, anyway? From what i've read, we've got a pseudo-murderer, an all-in-one girl, and a girl stuck in a time loop (if i understand that correctly).
Anyway, the first stories are too short; someone this odd should set off the player's inner comments like firestorm. It got better later on, however, and I've seen a lot worse. I'm sure you will have no trouble fixing that.
Hm, I figured that could be left to the player proper. I can always add some thoughts in on the character's side.
There are also a few typos, but proofing is my job, so unless you want to, don't care about it.
Typos... Typos... Don't see any. Could you be more presice?
And lastly:author=GloopMaster
# Because that's how Japanese people say names. Don't look at me.
Cut that shit out, it's not funny. If anything, it's offensive(though only mildly, but I prefer to warn before the situation escalates) to those who use the eastern name order, and anyone with cursory knowledge of Japan. The union of these two categories includes, well, just about everyone here(didn't you notice the names on the ID list?).
Ah, and in case you disagree, please retort with an argument, not undecipherable swearing or telling me how I suck at something completely irrelevant.
I figured I might as well make sure that anyone reading that in the editor doesn't come at me with the opposite argument, that I wrote the name wrong. I can remove that quicker than I put it there.
author=GloopMaster
Nami Momohana v0.1beta here! http://www.sendspace.com/file/gg83i9
I find it mildly interesting that I'm the only person who uses RMN's locker-space to store characters. Anyway, second opinion time!
You know, it's funny. At one point, you're all like...
ID = 39
OTHER2
NAME KNOWN
Ah. It's <last> <first>.
# Because that's how Japanese people say names. Don't look at me.
...then you get even lazier on us with...
ID = Takuya
That's Nami Momohana. She's a second year student here.
You seem to be vaguely aware of Japanese nomenclature rules, so you could, at the very least, be consistent with them. One more thing to note. This time, about the profile:
CUSTOM 68 = Oh, so my <relation> is your friend as well?
CUSTOM 69 = Oh, so my <relation> is your friend as well?
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Does this even work? I don't recall hearing anything like this from Mr. Help File!
Dozen
697
author=GloopMaster
She isn't so much mentally unstable as just antisocial as hell.
Asocial, you mean. Antisocial would mean she's an agressive, remorseless liar, not a weirdo outcast. And metally unstable? Well, she's probably stable right now, but how sane you are at any point is not tied to your stability. When unstable, your mental well-being worsens, but you don't get better when you aren't just because you aren't; if that was how it worked psychiatrists would be out of a job. Expecting a mind to fix itself is like expecting a computer to fix itself - it's a silly notion.
There is no such thing as a completely sane person in real life; you call someone's mental state disordered when her daily life is impeded by the way she thinks and feels, and hers obviously is.
It's not unusual to consider someone sane when she isn't, personality disorders are usually shrugged off as eccentrics until it's too late. I'm talking from experience here.
author=MarrendYup.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Does this even work? I don't recall hearing anything like this from Mr. Help File!
author=GloopMaster
What is in development, anyway? From what i've read, we've got a pseudo-murderer, an all-in-one girl, and a girl stuck in a time loop (if i understand that correctly).
We have Kyouki, who has my disorder, developed by me, obviously. Ryoko, a sort of villain/anti-hero for the game, is also under pen - her route is more of a team effort. We have LordNight's Ghost Squad, Triad's girls(Yoko the inventor and mad scientist, especially, and Seira, the 'pseudo-murderer'), Fran the Dream Vestige from Marrend, and semi-secret projects by Nekochi. On the sidenote, Junko's and 21's routes are being renovated.
author=Dozenauthor=GloopMaster
What is in development, anyway? From what i've read, we've got a pseudo-murderer, an all-in-one girl, and a girl stuck in a time loop (if i understand that correctly).Who's the all-in-one girl?
We have Kyouki, who has my disorder, developed by me, obviously. Ryoko, a sort of villain/anti-hero for the game, is also under pen - her route is more of a team effort. We have LordNight's Ghost Squad, Triad's girls(Yoko the inventor and mad scientist, especially, and Seira, the 'pseudo-murderer'), Fran the Dream Vestige from Marrend, and semi-secret projects by Nekochi. On the sidenote, Junko's and 21's routes are being renovated.
I think the so-called "all-in-one girl" might be a reference to Meiga? Might be wrong. Anyway, let's not leave out all the lovely places that are "reserved" and all the "unpublished" characters on the ID list. Not to mention KimotoDragoon's Lambaria Yuu. KimotoDragoon seems to come around once in a blue moon (If at all), and only on the official site. If worse come to worse, the Abandoned Characters Program would transfer her into my care.
Speaking of things in my care, yeah, Fran's on the stack. As is a total makeover for Emiko, and the revisions for Uchioniko.
*Edit:
author=Dozenauthor=MarrendYup.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Does this even work? I don't recall hearing anything like this from Mr. Help File!
Why isn't this in the "special tags" section, and more importantly, why haven't I seen this used before now?
"Oh, hello."
At this point, all of Kaori's tachies are fully completed (unless I add more in the future).
There are two more characters needed to get her endings, and they're only half-done at the moment... *sigh*. Looks like I'll be busy.
(Also, I love all of these characters! >7< So good!)
Howdy, stranger! Though, the name "Kaori" sounds oddly familiar to me.
Also, you might try resizing that graphic down to 255 by 468.
Also, you might try resizing that graphic down to 255 by 468.
author=Marrend
Howdy, stranger! Though, the name "Kaori" sounds oddly familiar to me.
Also, you might try resizing that graphic down to 255 by 468.
The only thing I can think of is that it's sort of similar to Akari?
Also, thanks for the suggestion. I didn't realize my image was too big.
author=Dozenauthor=GloopMasterAsocial, you mean. Antisocial would mean she's an agressive, remorseless liar, not a weirdo outcast.
She isn't so much mentally unstable as just antisocial as hell.
Ok, ok...
And metally unstable? Well, she's probably stable right now, but how sane you are at any point is not tied to your stability. When unstable, your mental well-being worsens, but you don't get better when you aren't just because you aren't; if that was how it worked psychiatrists would be out of a job. Expecting a mind to fix itself is like expecting a computer to fix itself - it's a silly notion.
It's not like it's the end of the world because i used the wrong word... >.>;
There is no such thing as a completely sane person in real life; you call someone's mental state disordered when her daily life is impeded by the way she thinks and feels, and hers obviously is.
Nope, she's content as can be with being "asocial".
I wouldn't dare to say what she has just yet, but she has something.Edit:Scratch that, she's schizotypal. Silly Dozen, not realizing the obvious.
It's not unusual to consider someone sane when she isn't, personality disorders are usually shrugged off as eccentrics until it's too late. I'm talking from experience here.
She isn't schizotypal, or at least not on purpose. She's simply content with having no friends. It's just that this causes the social awkwardness visible in the events.
author=MarrendYup.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Does this even work? I don't recall hearing anything like this from Mr. Help File!
Character customizer had "<relation>" in the defaults for those two lines.
author=GloopMaster
What is in development, anyway? From what i've read, we've got a pseudo-murderer, an all-in-one girl, and a girl stuck in a time loop (if i understand that correctly).Who's the all-in-one girl?
Meiga.
We have Kyouki, who has my disorder, developed by me, obviously. Ryoko, a sort of villain/anti-hero for the game, is also under pen - her route is more of a team effort. We have LordNight's Ghost Squad, Triad's girls(Yoko the inventor and mad scientist, especially, and Seira, the 'pseudo-murderer'), Fran the Dream Vestige from Marrend, and semi-secret projects by Nekochi. On the sidenote, Junko's and 21's routes are being renovated.
Ok then. Noted.
author=Marrendauthor=GloopMasterI find it mildly interesting that I'm the only person who uses RMN's locker-space to store characters. Anyway, second opinion time!
Nami Momohana v0.1beta here! http://www.sendspace.com/file/gg83i9
I noticed i even had that after i already uploaded her to sendspace.
You know, it's funny. At one point, you're all like...ID = 39
OTHER2
NAME KNOWN
Ah. It's <last> <first>.
# Because that's how Japanese people say names. Don't look at me.
...then you get even lazier on us with...ID = Takuya
That's Nami Momohana. She's a second year student here.
Since obviously this is causing some issues with you guys i'll just make her introduce herself with first name first.
You seem to be vaguely aware of Japanese nomenclature rules, so you could, at the very least, be consistent with them.
Alright. See above.
One more thing to note. This time, about the profile:CUSTOM 68 = Oh, so my <relation> is your friend as well?
CUSTOM 69 = Oh, so my <relation> is your friend as well?
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Does this even work? I don't recall hearing anything like this from Mr. Help File!
Only in those two lines.
author=Marrendauthor=Dozenauthor=MarrendYup.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Does this even work? I don't recall hearing anything like this from Mr. Help File!
Why isn't this in the "special tags" section, and more importantly, why haven't I seen this used before now?
Maybe I'm the only one who uses the customizer? :?
*boots up the customizer*
Well, I'll be! I could swear that "<relation>" wasn't there before!
*feels kinda left out*
Well, I'll be! I could swear that "<relation>" wasn't there before!
*feels kinda left out*
Dozen
697
author=Marrend
*feels kinda left out*
You aren't!O.o Here! Have a puppy!
author=GloopMaster
It's not like it's the end of the world because i used the wrong word... >.>;
Well, yeah. My way of compensating for my general dickery is directing it at acceptable targets. Problem is, my disorder makes me overreact to everything, and that I can only notice in retrospect. Sorry about that, I'm trying to get hold of it.
author=GloopMasterWhen I said they get shrugged off, I didn't mean just other people. How many do you know who could admit that to themselves? And that's only if someone tells you, because you can't realize on your own. Nobody wakes up and thinks "Shit, I've been driven mad by stress, genetic oddities, infections, trauma and/or misshapen byproducts of society"(Especially not in this form, but, you know, satire). If I never found out I have a disorder I'd still happily manipulate people into paying attention to me without realizing how selfish I'm being and why nobody actually likes me. She may not want to interact with people, but people sure will interact with her, even if they don't want to. She still has to go to school, buy food, talk to her teachers, her family, later get a job - Her apathy for socializing will get the better of her. Probably did before.
Nope, she's content as can be with being "asocial".
author=GloopMaster
Since obviously this is causing some issues with you guys i'll just make her introduce herself with first name first.
Okay, this conversation is taking a comically bad turn. Marrend meant Takuya was saying it wrong. Have them say the family name first. Stay accurate.
