LIGHTNINGLORD2'S PROFILE

I think the problem with fighting games in particular is that the difference between professionals and casual players is far more pronounced than in other games:

In an RTS, I can't reach the same APM and micromanagement the Championship players have, but I can still do everything they can, albeit slower (building things, upgrading my units). The inputs I have to do are simply left clicking the units/buildings I want to act with and right clicking to tell them what to do. The general strategies aren't very execution heavy, either, as the building/upgrading times give you a fairly large margin of error. Only problem could be micromanaging units in combat.

In a fighting game, even in training mode, there's a great deal of difficulty to execute the moves at all - I can only really execute the quarter circle forward and the dragon punch thing myself, even then only when I'm not facing left. Now add on that you're not only expected to be able to execute individual moves, you're also supposed to know the combos, which include things like having 1/60 of a second to follow up a certain move, exploit glitches not listed in the manual (Kara Throws, Option Selects, Wavdashing etc.) and even throw in some moves that don't do anything but allow you to continue the combo.

If you want to have fun with the genre at its highest competetive level without having to pull off crazy inputs, try Divekick - the game is solely controlled with two buttons, Dive and Kick (yes, you don't have any directional input whatsoever) to execute divekicks, which result in an instant KO if you hit. That game is only about reading your opponent, judging spacing and assessing your opponent's capabilities.

author=Tirear

author=LightningLord2
It doesn't help that the item's effect is for all purposes completely random, meaning that there's no player agency involved in using it..

The games that do it well do have player agency involved. For example, instead of saving unidentified potions for a situation where you need a good bonus to survive, maybe you can find a weak enemy and throw the potion at it. If the enemy dies, you have identified the potion of instant death and have less to worry about when drinking unidentified potions. If there is no effect, you have greatly narrowed down the possibilities and should be able to survive testing one yourself after taking appropriate precautions. Experienced players will even pick up on minor clues, such as that this potion is unlikely to be the rare potion of instant death because I have found 3 of them already.

The downside is that many players decide the ID game is too complicated for them, and read guides so that they can play the other half of the game. Maybe it would make sense to have an 'easy' mode where all items come identified. But the ID game can be quite fun for those who have the patience to figure it out on their own.

There's no safety in doing that tactic - it could be a Potion of Haste, meaning that the otherwise weak enemy will now completely wreck you. Also, it's entirely possible for you to be unable to find another potion of that kind, meaning that you could lose because you wasted an item you needed at this moment. Generally, any improvement on the ID game does so by diminishing it. A better way would be to leave the player thinking about strategizing with known effects.

Keep in mind that the player won't notice the difference between a randomized result and a non-random result that had no clues to it.

LockeZ brings up an interesting point here - difficulty levels for non-combat aspects of the game.

A World Without Wind 2 has two different settings for difficulty, one for the turn-based base building gameplay and another for the platforming segments to unlock more plots to build on and such.

I have to state that I can only call an ID system implemented well if the player wants to use unidentified items and has a significant benefit from doing so.

Here's a breakdown why I can't imagine this working:

If the player is in combat...
...and the item is great, the player will enjoy being lucky.
...and the item is mediocre, they'll be disappointed that they couldn't get a better use.
...and the item is bad, they'll blame luck and get upset about the game.

If the player is safe...
...and the item is great, they'll be frustrated to have squandered it.
...and the item is mediocre, they won't care much.
...and the item is bad, they'll be disappointed that it was a dud.

So basically, only in 1 of 6 cases will it be fun, 1 of 6 creates apathy and a whooping 4 of 6 results in frustration.

It doesn't help that the item's effect is for all purposes completely random, meaning that there's no player agency involved in using it. Ultimately, this only fuels a player's gambling addiction. If you're designing an arcade machine that's supposed to eat your player's quarters, that's fine, but it's not a system for testing a player's skill.

Barring the use of unidentified items basically makes the items loot bags, which is just a double unlock of regular random drops. This system is alright, but it's pretty detached from a proper ID system in my opinion. Worse is having to invest in a skill to identify, as that mostly amounts to feat tax.

author=LockeZ

author=Craze
i mean final fantasy 1 did it so you can toooo

This is not a good decision-making paradigm in general

I think he means there's no challenge in putting this into your game rather than claiming it should be done for everyone's game(s).

@FlyingJester: That's correct - the initial Second Wave options in XCOM merely put more RNG into the game rather than changing the difficulty, for instance. But still, most of the feature toggles you'll find in games will only change the game's difficulty or randomness.