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The gay marriage debate...
@Deckiller: Yes... so much yes. The focus of politics (at least US politics) is so far from what needs to be focused on is sad. Again, true freedom of choice should be given to the people, and the rest of things that the government should truly be working on (the economy, REAL crime, etc.) should be what's on the plate. These debates really are a distraction from what is really going on in the world, sweeping them under the rug. Out of sight, out of mind, right?
Anyway, LockeZ, there are tons of financial benefits that come with marriage, but they don't all apply to all marriages. The best example I can think of at the moment is the benefits of being married to a veteran. These benefits are HUGE, but one of the parties must be a veteran in order to get them. This goes for almost any benefit that comes with getting married. So, for a poor schmuck like me, working as a grad student, who has zip point shit in terms of personal benefits, getting married to someone of a similar status, has little to gain.
Also, like Deckiller said, many people fear gays will game the system, but again, like Deckiller said, straights already do this. Straight people can't get in trouble for it either. But, if you pretend to be gay, get marred in a place that recognizes gay marriage, then live someplace that will recognize it as well, you can get in some serious shit. ("I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry" makes light of this, but it's true to an extent).
But again, I really want to know if there is something wrong with giving gays all the same benefits as marriage but calling it something different is okay. Only a couple of people really weighed in on that idea. Hell, if I was told I could get what gays get, and not call it marriage, I'd sign up, mostly because of the religious connotations attached to the word marriage.
Anyway, LockeZ, there are tons of financial benefits that come with marriage, but they don't all apply to all marriages. The best example I can think of at the moment is the benefits of being married to a veteran. These benefits are HUGE, but one of the parties must be a veteran in order to get them. This goes for almost any benefit that comes with getting married. So, for a poor schmuck like me, working as a grad student, who has zip point shit in terms of personal benefits, getting married to someone of a similar status, has little to gain.
Also, like Deckiller said, many people fear gays will game the system, but again, like Deckiller said, straights already do this. Straight people can't get in trouble for it either. But, if you pretend to be gay, get marred in a place that recognizes gay marriage, then live someplace that will recognize it as well, you can get in some serious shit. ("I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry" makes light of this, but it's true to an extent).
But again, I really want to know if there is something wrong with giving gays all the same benefits as marriage but calling it something different is okay. Only a couple of people really weighed in on that idea. Hell, if I was told I could get what gays get, and not call it marriage, I'd sign up, mostly because of the religious connotations attached to the word marriage.
Art01.png
The gay marriage debate...
author=Dyhaltoauthor=OblicNo, it shouldn't.
I agree that polygamy should be legal.
Polygamy is a step backwards for women's rights. Entering into a marital union voluntarily is celebrated, but only if your voluntarism is tolerated by the society you live in. Polygamous societies tend to be oppressive towards their women, and for necessary reasons. What self-respecting woman would want to be part of a harem?
If we cross that rubicon, we might as well repeal Women's Suffrage.
Who said anything about only having a man having multiple wives? Or... what if two "couples" (two men and two women) want to get together? As long as everyone is consenting and happy, why get in the way?
Either way, this is getting off topic. The main reason I started this is to find out what people thought of allowing any two consenting adults to get some sort of union that gives equal benefits, no matter who the two are, yet calling it something different, depending on the circumstances.
The gay marriage debate...
Damn guys... I can't keep up with all this reading at once...
First of all, thank you Craze for sharing your opinion on the matter. I really did want someone that it truly affected to give their two cents. As a straight guy, I can never understand how this situation affects a gay individual.
To be more clear, when I said "marriage" I was referring to the legal contract, even more specifically in the US. The biggest cluster fuck with this whole thing is using the same term that religious folk use for a "holy union" of (from my understanding) "a man and a woman". That's why I feel like if they changed the name of it, at least in terms of the legal contract, there would be much less bickering and debate about letting them get legally "married". So... call all legal marriages that exist now "civil unions" and leave "marriage" to those that want to have god's blessing or whatever.
I agree that it is sad that is still a debatable topic, but it is, and people can get REALLY upset about it. On either side of the fence.
Bottom line: total freedom for all. I agree that polygamy should be legal. I think, as I said originally, someone should be allowed to marry a goat. To each, their own. People need to stop trying to control other people's lives...
First of all, thank you Craze for sharing your opinion on the matter. I really did want someone that it truly affected to give their two cents. As a straight guy, I can never understand how this situation affects a gay individual.
To be more clear, when I said "marriage" I was referring to the legal contract, even more specifically in the US. The biggest cluster fuck with this whole thing is using the same term that religious folk use for a "holy union" of (from my understanding) "a man and a woman". That's why I feel like if they changed the name of it, at least in terms of the legal contract, there would be much less bickering and debate about letting them get legally "married". So... call all legal marriages that exist now "civil unions" and leave "marriage" to those that want to have god's blessing or whatever.
I agree that it is sad that is still a debatable topic, but it is, and people can get REALLY upset about it. On either side of the fence.
Bottom line: total freedom for all. I agree that polygamy should be legal. I think, as I said originally, someone should be allowed to marry a goat. To each, their own. People need to stop trying to control other people's lives...
The gay marriage debate...
author=LockeZ
The problem is, what does marriage mean? It means extremely different things in different religions. To some people it's about love; to some people it's not. To some people it's about sex; to some people it's not. To some people it's about starting a family; to some people it's not. To some people it's a lifelong commitment; to some people it's not. To some people it's between two people; to some people it's not.
My point exactly. That was truly the disconnect my friend didn't understand. I am an atheist, but I would still call "the union" marriage; it has nothing to do with religion, it's just what it's been called for... who the hell knows how long.
author=Craze
My straight father and step-mother are atheists and got married lawfully by a public notary.
So, this means that gays should be able to do this, too. Since there isn't any kind of religious aspect to it, it should be okay, right?
Thanks for the insightful feedback so far guys. The more the "marrier"! Har har... I should sleep...
The gay marriage debate...
Okay, I know every time I come here to talk about something, someone is inevitably going to get upset in one way or another. But I guess that's what happens when you talk about philosophical or moral issues, especially those that are prominent today.
Anyway, the biggest reason I'm bringing this hear is to vent and try to get a better understanding of why people feel the way they do. I got in a pretty heated argument with a friend that didn't exactly end well, but the disagreement was on one of the finer points of the issue, not the issue itself.
First of all, I think gay marriage should not be a political issue. What I mean by saying that is, I think any two people should be allowed to get the benefits of being married and live with one another, and the people in Washington (I'm from the U.S.) shouldn't have ANY say on the issue. I don't even understand how it became an issue. I feel like the first time it ever came up, the conversation SHOULD have gone like this:
Senator A: "Hey, man, these two dudes/chicks wanna get hitched. That's never happened before. Whatta we do?"
Senator B: "Shit, I can't believe we didn't think about this... Oh, well! Fuck it, let 'em do whatever!"
...end of discussion.
Sad to say, that's not how it happened. So now, we have assloads of pointless debates about why two people that love each other enough to completely commit to one another to the extent of "til death do us part" can't be together. It makes my head hurt to see it. Let me be perfectly clear about one thing: I AM NOT GAY. But, what business is it of mine what two gay people do? Personally, I think that if you want to marry a goat (and I'm not saying they are equivalent situations), all the power to you.
Now, on to my argument, and a path (hopefully) to my enlightenment. Recently, California (not sure if this is anywhere else) let people get "civil unions", which, to the best of my knowledge, gave gay couples all the benefits and rights as straight couples. But, the gay rights movement got upset and fought this decision, saying it was "separate but equal". The California Supreme court ruled in favor of the gay rights people saying it was unconstitutional. But now, as far as I can tell, they are back at square one: no gay marriage.
Now, my question is, why wouldn't they agree to the same benefits under a different name? I can't truly understand, mostly because I am as bland of a cracker as anyone can be; it is pretty difficult to insult me for... well, anything really. I get the fact that some people may treat them like "second class marriages", but most of those people are religious (no offense to anyone reading this) nutjobs, so why give a damn what they think in the first place? In essence, the gay rights movement is fighting a battle with RELIGION, not with government. Again, I hate to bring this up here, but just by calling it marriage, you are pissing on their shoes. That, from what I can tell, is really what annoys the majority of them.
In short, why not take the benefits, live together, and be happy? The true essence of being married isn't (or at least shouldn't) be in the name, but in the commitment and love you have for one another. Who cares what it's labeled, as long as you know that you love each other?
One last time, I want to make it very clear that I support gay marriage 100%, but if you are given the same benefits just under a different name, why not take it and run? Also, if I am wrong (at least in terms of the facts), please let me know. I would rather be wrong and admit it and adjust my way of thinking than feel right and be ignorant to the truth.
Anyway, the biggest reason I'm bringing this hear is to vent and try to get a better understanding of why people feel the way they do. I got in a pretty heated argument with a friend that didn't exactly end well, but the disagreement was on one of the finer points of the issue, not the issue itself.
First of all, I think gay marriage should not be a political issue. What I mean by saying that is, I think any two people should be allowed to get the benefits of being married and live with one another, and the people in Washington (I'm from the U.S.) shouldn't have ANY say on the issue. I don't even understand how it became an issue. I feel like the first time it ever came up, the conversation SHOULD have gone like this:
Senator A: "Hey, man, these two dudes/chicks wanna get hitched. That's never happened before. Whatta we do?"
Senator B: "Shit, I can't believe we didn't think about this... Oh, well! Fuck it, let 'em do whatever!"
...end of discussion.
Sad to say, that's not how it happened. So now, we have assloads of pointless debates about why two people that love each other enough to completely commit to one another to the extent of "til death do us part" can't be together. It makes my head hurt to see it. Let me be perfectly clear about one thing: I AM NOT GAY. But, what business is it of mine what two gay people do? Personally, I think that if you want to marry a goat (and I'm not saying they are equivalent situations), all the power to you.
Now, on to my argument, and a path (hopefully) to my enlightenment. Recently, California (not sure if this is anywhere else) let people get "civil unions", which, to the best of my knowledge, gave gay couples all the benefits and rights as straight couples. But, the gay rights movement got upset and fought this decision, saying it was "separate but equal". The California Supreme court ruled in favor of the gay rights people saying it was unconstitutional. But now, as far as I can tell, they are back at square one: no gay marriage.
Now, my question is, why wouldn't they agree to the same benefits under a different name? I can't truly understand, mostly because I am as bland of a cracker as anyone can be; it is pretty difficult to insult me for... well, anything really. I get the fact that some people may treat them like "second class marriages", but most of those people are religious (no offense to anyone reading this) nutjobs, so why give a damn what they think in the first place? In essence, the gay rights movement is fighting a battle with RELIGION, not with government. Again, I hate to bring this up here, but just by calling it marriage, you are pissing on their shoes. That, from what I can tell, is really what annoys the majority of them.
In short, why not take the benefits, live together, and be happy? The true essence of being married isn't (or at least shouldn't) be in the name, but in the commitment and love you have for one another. Who cares what it's labeled, as long as you know that you love each other?
One last time, I want to make it very clear that I support gay marriage 100%, but if you are given the same benefits just under a different name, why not take it and run? Also, if I am wrong (at least in terms of the facts), please let me know. I would rather be wrong and admit it and adjust my way of thinking than feel right and be ignorant to the truth.
Let's Play Parts 6-10
Holy hell... I knew I was forgetting review!
I still do want to write one, but I will have to brush up on my knowledge of the game and its finer points.
Wow, I feel like such an ass for not following through on that...
I still do want to write one, but I will have to brush up on my knowledge of the game and its finer points.
Wow, I feel like such an ass for not following through on that...
Paradise Blue Review
Hah! I thought the temple thing was a quest! Since I completed the quest before talking to the dude it still doesn't come up in the list. At least I know it's complete.
In terms of levels: my entire party is on level 31. Each one has about 4 jobs mastered (I think I mastered each class at least once), but I pretty much have my entire party set up for damage output. I have 3 monks, one with the set up I have hidden above, and the other two with build up. My last one is a summoner, for healing; he has lvl3 speed + and white. He also has the best sword and armor equipped for boosted stats.
I hope that answered that question... I didn't master every class with everyone, but I may go back and do that at some point.
Thanks for helping me find that last quest!
In terms of levels: my entire party is on level 31. Each one has about 4 jobs mastered (I think I mastered each class at least once), but I pretty much have my entire party set up for damage output. I have 3 monks, one with the set up I have hidden above, and the other two with build up. My last one is a summoner, for healing; he has lvl3 speed + and white. He also has the best sword and armor equipped for boosted stats.
I hope that answered that question... I didn't master every class with everyone, but I may go back and do that at some point.
Thanks for helping me find that last quest!
Games - Tester
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