Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
Profile
Locker
Play ListsPREXUS'S PROFILE
prexus
309
CloseSearch
Filter
All
Game Pages
User Statuses
What games are you looking forward to?
"2D" Zelda Games Obsolete?
author=Thiamor
Obsolete is a strong word to use. Yeah, they aren't used by professional game developers, much, but they aren't obsolete. We, as a gaming community, still are using them for the most part. You hardly see anyone here making 3D games, and to me, that makes all the difference in the world. I want to actually bring back the Sprite style and have it catch back on with the professional, main-stream gaming developers and communities.
I feel there is still so much potential and possibilities left with the 2D, pixel (sprite) graphics. They are much easier to use, and can be used so many different ways, yet you see many people going into 3D programming and such. There are WAY MORE artists than programmers, and many people who can do Art on the computer(s). There is still so much left that is unfinished in terms of 2D gaming.
I can't agree with the bolded text. The reason that many developers are using 3D models, even in 2D games (read: New Super Mario Bros) is that creating 3D models and animating them is much easier than spriting, especially with the massive amount of 3D animators/modelers at the moment vs. the relatively small amount of pixel artists that specialize in character graphics/animation.
"2D" Zelda Games Obsolete?
The Nintendo DS Zelda games are 2D (Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks) despite using 3D Graphics, they are 2D games as much as any other 2D Zelda game was 2D.
In fact, the developers actually prefer to use 2D for Zelda games, as well as the cartoony style graphics, because it allows them to be more creative with new tools/equipment and settings. There was an article about the choice they made to differentiate the Cel-shaded timeline and the 'realistic' timeline so much. There were always more interesting items in Wind Waker and the DS games mentioned above than there was in Twilight Princess comparatively.
However Skyward Sword indicates a recombination of the two. They are using the slightly celshaded style so that they can properly accentuate things for gameplay reasons, not stylistic ones. Particularly the stancing and positioning of enemy's and their weapons will make a large difference in how you defeat them. Something that would be difficult to show with realistic, brown on brown graphics.
In fact, the developers actually prefer to use 2D for Zelda games, as well as the cartoony style graphics, because it allows them to be more creative with new tools/equipment and settings. There was an article about the choice they made to differentiate the Cel-shaded timeline and the 'realistic' timeline so much. There were always more interesting items in Wind Waker and the DS games mentioned above than there was in Twilight Princess comparatively.
However Skyward Sword indicates a recombination of the two. They are using the slightly celshaded style so that they can properly accentuate things for gameplay reasons, not stylistic ones. Particularly the stancing and positioning of enemy's and their weapons will make a large difference in how you defeat them. Something that would be difficult to show with realistic, brown on brown graphics.
4.png
The height difference between the two rooms is an issue, otherwise its fairly bland. I can't even tell if its the inside of a castle, or a neatly kept dungeon, or a jail. Try adding some doodads to further detail the area.
What does it mean for a game to be an RPG?
author=Radnen
I pose a challenge for you to refute my opinion.
...but in the event that you managed to succeed, my opinion still stands.
Paraphrasing, of course.
Your list of RPG Elements are all too specific to be defining.
It would be like saying all RPGs need to have HP. While its true that almost all RPGs have some sort of health meter, HP is a specific type that isn't necessary present in all RPGs (not that all RPGs even have health meters this is an example not an opinion on the definition.)
I don't know if you missed my post (twice) Radnen, but my opinion on the RPG Genre is outlined below:
author=prexus
RPG is a flavor, not a genre. The primary elements of an RPG can be seen applied to any genre. The classic console 'RPG', such as Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy had two or three key areas of gameplay.
Combat, which was a form of Turn Based Strategy (and later to become Real Time Strategy or Action Style.)
Out of Combat, which in the earliest genres were highly based on exploration and puzzles, and later added dialogue simulation and mini-games.
and Character Management, which is the defining feature of an RPG because it wasn't something really seen in video gaming yet. Inventory management, party management, character advancement, etc. The Menu Stuff.
RPG has never really been a genre, but a hybrid of genres. Yet the common element, which was drawn from Table Top RPGs (the purest form of RPG) was consistent enough to be able to label games that were hard to label.
The reason the discussion of "What is an RPG?" comes up so often in recent years, as opposed to "What is an adventure game?" or "What is a simulation game?" is because of this. Developers realized that the element of RPGs that was common throughout, was easily applied to any genre. Racing games with car improvement and customization. Shooters with leveling up and customizable load-outs. It is a flavor, much like Ketchup or Maple Syrup. It's not really a meal on its own (unless you are Canadian) but can be added to almost any meal to make it even more delicious.
The other key feature that RPGs had that not many other games did when it was first released was a Story. But that doesn't make it a defining feature. Story itself is a flavor, and not related to game-play except in dialogue related situations. Mario had a story, not a good one, but a story. Pac-man didn't. Mario isn't any more an RPG than Pac-man is (that is to say, neither of them are) but one had a story and one didn't. It is a common element through-out most RPGs, but not an element of RPGs.
To further refute your point, however, Radnen.
Taking your list:
- A currency of some kind.
- At least one playable character with stats that must evolve (even if its one stat).
- An inventory of some kind or form.
- Battles of some kind or form.
- Interactive NPC's (not like the kind in shooters, these guys need A-button initialization).
- Some form of exploration.
- Some form of quests, missions, goals, objectives. (Read: Not necessarily "story").
and applying it to a game that is well known for not being an RPG; The Legend of Zelda.
- Rupees
- Link (Hearts)
- Bombs/Arrows/Tools
- er, Combat.
- It's Dangerous to Go Alone, take this!
- er, a Zelda game.
- POE SOULS PLZKTHX
Yet it's not an RPG. Why isn't it an RPG?
It's not an RPG because it is missing the majority of The Menu Stuff.
Character advancement is too simple, and simply a measure of how far you have progressed in the game. It does not represent Link's increased ability.
Inventory Management is reduced to how many bombs or arrows you have, what items are on what hotkeys, and what tunic you are wearing. This is the closest thing to an RPG that Legend of Zelda has.
Ability/Skill Management doesn't exist.
Party Management doesn't exist (while not necessary in all RPGs, it is present in a vast majority of them. It is a considerably 'out there' feature for a classic RPG not to have a party of some sort.)
Legend of Zelda can be played almost entirely without the menu, short of switching some hot keys. It isn't an RPG, yet it fits your criteria.
ReaversImage7.jpg
What does it mean for a game to be an RPG?
RPGs do not need currency, battles, or quests (short of the primary storyline)
As I have stated previously, an RPG is defined by what is accomplished in the Menu. Inventory management, Character Upgrading/Customization, Party Management, etc.
All other features of an RPG can be found through-out many other genres.
As I have stated previously, an RPG is defined by what is accomplished in the Menu. Inventory management, Character Upgrading/Customization, Party Management, etc.
All other features of an RPG can be found through-out many other genres.
Looking for some dungeon puzzle ideas...
A sluice gate concept for the sewers might work (levers controlling gates that stop water from flowing into other areas, allowing progression and secret finding.)
Another alternative is a theme that effects combat in some way. I'm not sure what combat system you are using, or what kind of encounter system you are using.
If it is random encounters, you could have a status ailment that you get if you stay in the sewers for too long that always causes the enemy to get a pre-emptive strike (some sort of sickness or illness)
If its touch encounters, you could make them invisible and instead use a fog that scrolls around the screen that somehow indicates when you might be in for an encounter.
If it's an ABS, again an illness or ailment that in some way changes you controls or disorients you.
You could also have things flowing down the water in the sewers, mostly junk (boxes, unmentionables, etc.) but occasionally have an item floating down, which if you follow will stop somewhere for you to grab, or perhaps have a gate that when you close will catch the item for you to collect.
Or you could have pipes that stick out over the pathways you walk, which occasionally spew out something (which could be announced by a flushing sound, or sudden rushing water) which could do damage, or cause a status ailment, or something if you get hit by it. Perhaps slow your walking speed, or attract a particularly nasty combat encounter.
Libraries are boring. You could hide clues to a riddle in books, you could have certain books that have magical incantations that do certain things (if this is a library that has anything to do with magic.)
You could have shifting bookcases, which are triggered by levers, if the library is laid out like a labyrinth.
Another alternative is a theme that effects combat in some way. I'm not sure what combat system you are using, or what kind of encounter system you are using.
If it is random encounters, you could have a status ailment that you get if you stay in the sewers for too long that always causes the enemy to get a pre-emptive strike (some sort of sickness or illness)
If its touch encounters, you could make them invisible and instead use a fog that scrolls around the screen that somehow indicates when you might be in for an encounter.
If it's an ABS, again an illness or ailment that in some way changes you controls or disorients you.
You could also have things flowing down the water in the sewers, mostly junk (boxes, unmentionables, etc.) but occasionally have an item floating down, which if you follow will stop somewhere for you to grab, or perhaps have a gate that when you close will catch the item for you to collect.
Or you could have pipes that stick out over the pathways you walk, which occasionally spew out something (which could be announced by a flushing sound, or sudden rushing water) which could do damage, or cause a status ailment, or something if you get hit by it. Perhaps slow your walking speed, or attract a particularly nasty combat encounter.
Libraries are boring. You could hide clues to a riddle in books, you could have certain books that have magical incantations that do certain things (if this is a library that has anything to do with magic.)
You could have shifting bookcases, which are triggered by levers, if the library is laid out like a labyrinth.
What does it mean for a game to be an RPG?
author=Thiamor
Again, call me ignorant, but I'm right in this sense. There is no winning when talking about what an RPG really is, and no one is right or wrong.
In everything that can be defined, there is a right and wrong. I am right, see my post below:
author=Prexus
RPG is a flavor, not a genre. The primary elements of an RPG can be seen in any genre. The classic console 'RPG', such as Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy had two or three key areas of gameplay.
Combat, which was a form of Turn Based Strategy (and later to become Real Time Strategy or Action Style.)
Out of Combat, which in the earliest genres were highly based on exploration and puzzles, and later added dialogue simulation and mini-games.
and Character Management, which is the defining feature of an RPG because it wasn't something really seen in video gaming yet. Inventory management, party management, character advancement, etc. The Menu Stuff.
RPG has never really been a genre, but a hybrid of genres. Yet the common element, which was drawn from Table Top RPGs (the purest form of RPG) was consistent enough to be able to label games that were hard to label.
The reason the discussion of "What is an RPG?" comes up so often in recent years, as opposed to "What is an adventure game?" or "What is a simulation game?" is because of this. Developers realized that the element of RPGs that was common throughout, was easily applied to any genre. Racing games with car improvement and customization. Shooters with leveling up and customizable load-outs. It is a flavor, much like Ketchup or Maple Syrup. It's not really a meal on its own (unless you are Canadian) but can be added to almost any meal to make it even more delicious.
The other key feature that RPGs had that not many other games did when it was first released was a Story. But that doesn't make it a defining feature. Story itself is a flavor, and not related to game-play except in dialogue related situations. Mario had a story, not a good one, but a story. Pac-man didn't. Mario isn't any more an RPG than Pac-man is (that is to say, neither of them are) but one had a story and one didn't. It is a common element through-out most RPGs, but not an element of RPGs.
What does it mean for a game to be an RPG?
author=Thiamor
An RPG is solely any game that gives you some sort of Role to play out.
I couldn't read the rest of your post, this blew my mind. This is the most ignorant statement anyone could make about an RPG. -Any- game forces you to take control of a role. Mario in Super Mario Brothers, God in Black&White, The guy stacking the tetrads in Tetris. This is not the defining feature of the genre.
Games - Tester
Games - Other
