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SOOO... GAMERGATE
Posts
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
Corfaisus
View playlists
Closeauthor=harmonic
Men are constantly thrown homosexual pejoratives for not being manly enough, or poor pejoratives for not having enough money. To judge is to be human.
If people want to call me gay because I've got a heart and I'm not afraid to share it, then God damn it, I'm gay!
To feel is to be human.
author=Corfaisus
The admin of 8chan might be able to fill you in on that, though he's content on throwing a politician "we are doing all we can to look deeper into the matter" brush-off, all the while getting that 'anonymous, trolling coward' quip at the end that no one can respond to in order to claim superiority and inspire lingering pain towards the matter. Essentially, he pulled the real world equivalent of going "your mother never loved you" *log out*.
Ah, I wondered when I'd see that video again..
I'm gonna lay this with the understanding I have on this
Note: I'm not doing this to necessarily provoke argument here, but I feel like some of the misconceptions within the vid need to be addressed.
About a minute into the video and already we've laid that Quin(n?) is at the center. Was she at one point? Yes. Is she now? Ask pretty much anyone that'd identify as pro-GG and they'd probably reply with "Literally Who?" essentially denoting they give 0 fucks at this point (I'm serious, go right onto the /gg/ board and actually ask one of them). Even moving back through the pages of the /gg/ board, there is nary a mention save for one thumbnail of an article (however, the OP was going on as to how they've "lost the BBC")
A bit further (right after the Zoe thing), and we're getting into how the whole harassment shit started.
I'll preface that Ms. WU literally had nothing to do with GG until she posted/created a meme poking fun at it (crying baby cryin about muh vidya). In response, GG made memes making fun of it to my understanding.
What she tweeted. By her own words at around 2:47 she "thought it was funny; she laughed". She enjoyed a joke at their expense: https://twitter.com/Spacekatgal/status/520282355567964160
GG's supposed retaliation. They thought it was funny, she apparently took the whole thing personally: https://twitter.com/Spacekatgal/status/520344200249090048
At ~3:10, she complains about how they were "belittling" and "making fun" of her and "belittle women that are the targets of GamerGate". I understand that first bit, but you when you throw shit at someone I dunno how you can be surprised when they don't toss some back (least, that would be the case if every one of these actually addressed her). Yeah, let's go look back at GG's response memes.. I don't see any of them personally going after her or belittling women, really.
"HOH NO, THESE 8 EVIL HANDPICKED MEMES ARE MAKING ME FLEEE":
https://twitter.com/Spacekatgal/status/520417515688960000
Says she got dox'd, no proof attached (even a damn edited out photo would've sufficed) but let's just listen & believe here, guys:
https://twitter.com/Spacekatgal/status/520727151503757313
Ah, there's my blurred out pic I asked for in the last one (so thus, legitimacy confirmed).. but now we're suddenly tying it in to GG because why? No mention of the #GG hashtag in any of that; pretty sure she'd have included that bit but I guess just a baseless accusation'll do:
https://twitter.com/Spacekatgal/status/520739878993420290
(this covers the time between the first tweet on the account (Oct. 6 2014) and all that stuff there (Oct. 10 2014) or the genesis, if you would)
Could she very well have been getting shite in the background via email and all that? Probably. That's the thing, though, "probably". I don't know for certain, I just know she started specifically nailing both 8chan and #GG at the same time for whatever reason
So I'm still pretty skeptical on how she's pinning her woes on GG. Her harassment has not been disproven, but its ties to GG have yet to be proven IMO
I'll have to continue later (I'd really rather not, though, as I really don't want it to end in half the people here hating my guts for whatever reason and vice-versa).. It's 1:30 in the morning and I've got class starting at 8:30 today
EDIT: while not relevant to my post, still relevant to the topic at hand: http://www.historyofgamergate.com/a-peoples-history.html granted this stuff here is where shit really hit the fan: http://www.historyofgamergate.com/death-of-a-gamer.html
Also, now looking at the comments, I'd say there was more shit being flung directly at her there than in the tweets above specifically on that.
This whole thing is a fucking mess. The more I read about it, the more I think the whole Gamergate "movement" and all of its sides are just warring for attention. That has to be the only motive, as neither one has actually contributed to the support of or fight against gamergate's core idea: to protest against the bias and loopholes with gaming journalism.
The fact that its being taken up by the personal problems of an ex-couple is enough for me to equate this whole "movement" to a whiny kindergartener crying and screaming just to get people to notice him, and the solution to dealing with that needs to be the same for this movement: DON'T give it attention.
The fact that its being taken up by the personal problems of an ex-couple is enough for me to equate this whole "movement" to a whiny kindergartener crying and screaming just to get people to notice him, and the solution to dealing with that needs to be the same for this movement: DON'T give it attention.
the fact that there is a historyofgamergate.com website already just speaks volumes on how full of shit the whole thing is.
People are going to great lengths to convince themselves of the legitimacy of their crusade.
People are going to great lengths to convince themselves of the legitimacy of their crusade.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=TehGuy
granted this stuff here is where shit really hit the fan: http://www.historyofgamergate.com/death-of-a-gamer.html
Oh! The death of "gamer"! Boo-fucking-hoo, I'm so fucking upset! I'm going to go back to playing games because I'm not a whiny little shit whose only pride in life is calling myself a "gamer".
Fuck that shit.
To put this post into perspective: I was born in 1990, and while I have distinct memories since 1994 (a time in which gaming was already my life), the first time I was ever handed a controller (I'd assume; it's the only recorded history of my gaming origins) was when I was in diapers and sitting in one of those hand-basket car seat deals. With over 20 solid years of gaming being my babysitter/mentor/inspiration, I care more about the games than the empty "gamer" label.
I really feel like a lot of this has to do with how "gamers" were socialized as kids. In general, gamers who are in their twenties/thirties now grew up ostracized. They were the nerds, the outcasts, they got picked on. Now they're adults but they're still wired to see themselves as the victims. They always feel persecuted. It doesn't occur to them that they could be persecuting anyone else, because they've always been the people getting bullied in in their own minds.
Anyone who follows game-related news may have seen this in Mike Krahulik/Gabe of Penny-Arcade and how he's been known to say some pretty outrageous things anytime someone criticizes his artwork. What I think he fails to realize is he has gone from someone maligned by the system in his youth to becoming the system and essentially wielding a non-trivial amount of power over the gaming world. He's still, I think, operating under the mentality that people want to persecute him.
It's hard for some of these people to grow out of the mentality that they're always being picked on. That's probably how a lot of people get deluded into following such an ugly movement.
Anyone who follows game-related news may have seen this in Mike Krahulik/Gabe of Penny-Arcade and how he's been known to say some pretty outrageous things anytime someone criticizes his artwork. What I think he fails to realize is he has gone from someone maligned by the system in his youth to becoming the system and essentially wielding a non-trivial amount of power over the gaming world. He's still, I think, operating under the mentality that people want to persecute him.
It's hard for some of these people to grow out of the mentality that they're always being picked on. That's probably how a lot of people get deluded into following such an ugly movement.
SnowOwl
5188
I really try to stay clear of anything that has anything to do with the so-called modern "feminism" of today. Basically the whole debate on the internet is too toxic to do anyone any good.
Some of the women that supposedly want equal rights are only fighting for one thing, superiority. They want "revenge" on all the men that had it better than them. And so they want to take any and all rights from men, while still keeping the keeping the good things that women have.
On the side of the men, seeing this behaviour in women, they react in an equally toxic manner, and do the exact opposite. They try to keep all their good things, while talking down on women. Alot of these men probably started out wanting equal rights for both, but seeing these women behave like they do, they react badly and basically give anyone saying they are chauvinistic pigs more fuel for the fire.
Sadly these two groups are by far the most vocal, and so anyone that actually do want equal rights are lost in a tide of pure poison. And that's why nowadays if someone calls themselves a feminist or fighting for mens rights, I instantly try to sidestep them.
Some of the women that supposedly want equal rights are only fighting for one thing, superiority. They want "revenge" on all the men that had it better than them. And so they want to take any and all rights from men, while still keeping the keeping the good things that women have.
On the side of the men, seeing this behaviour in women, they react in an equally toxic manner, and do the exact opposite. They try to keep all their good things, while talking down on women. Alot of these men probably started out wanting equal rights for both, but seeing these women behave like they do, they react badly and basically give anyone saying they are chauvinistic pigs more fuel for the fire.
Sadly these two groups are by far the most vocal, and so anyone that actually do want equal rights are lost in a tide of pure poison. And that's why nowadays if someone calls themselves a feminist or fighting for mens rights, I instantly try to sidestep them.
author=Yellow Magicauthor=LibertyWho knew people could be THAT desperate to win internet debates??
It was basically a bunch of women (some of them hired) on the GG side of things
The solution to all of this is simple. Ban the internet
EDIT: What #GamerGate reminds me of:
The video itself is bullshit. He had some talk about how using fanwork to create new ideas was decaying the moral fiber of the universe or something.
Fact: No idea is original. Every idea is based on another idea, which is based on another few ideas.
The Black Homer is not that "offensive" and if he wants him to smoke weed, well, whatever. It's a far better version than alot of this stuff floating around (see tvtropes page on CopycatSue). I'm not offended, because yea there is shameless idea theft, but it's what you do with it. There are legitimate Bleach, Inuyasha, and Final Fantasy fangames that are actually quite good.
Final Fantasy Time And Again for instance was definitely a remake of Final Fantasy IV, but it was extremely playable.
As was Inuyasha Tamashi.
My point? There's no excuse to make drama when there really isn't any. That said, the treatment of women in internet forums itself is pretty bad. But we don't need flamewars about this, men just have to acknowledge they're being scum and change their ways.
Btw, "indulge yourself in the anime of the East" he says. But umm, the reason anime came into mainstream? Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball. Guess what?
http://eternalsailormoon.org/mythology.html
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Journey_to_the_West
author=Liberty
It was basically a bunch of women (some of them hired) on the GG side of things who were basically saying "We're not going to be your reason for going against GG".
I sure do hope you're gonna back that up with something..
Secondly, it wasn't just women. There were plenty of other minorities in there as well.
author=Corfaisusauthor=TehGuyOh! The death of "gamer"! Boo-fucking-hoo, I'm so fucking upset! I'm going to go back to playing games because I'm not a whiny little shit who's only pride in life is calling myself a "gamer".
granted this stuff here is where shit really hit the fan: http://www.historyofgamergate.com/death-of-a-gamer.html
Fuck that shit.
To put this post into perspective: I was born in 1990, and while I have distinct memories since 1994 (a time in which gaming was already my life), the first time I was ever handed a controller (I'd assume; it's the only recorded history of my gaming origins) was when I was in diapers and sitting in one of those hand-basket car seat deals. With over 20 solid years of gaming being my babysitter/mentor/inspiration, I care more about the games than the empty "gamer" label.
Completely ignoring the fact that said sites depended on said gamers for the bulk of their revenue, as well as a bunch of articles on the same exact subject coming out practically in unison in the midst of accusations of collusion
But fuck it, seeing as how that was the only damn thing of my entire post that was addressed I already know how this will peter out
Now, I finished that video and I must say.. That was the shittiest debate I've ever seen, if I can even call it that. Constant interruptions of the opposing side sustained by the moderator really left it with said opposition barely even being able to tell their side of the shit. Fuck me for expecting both sides to reasonably be able to voice both their points and then factually dismantle one another's
No, let's instead cry about mean internet people
But I'm just not surprised anymore. It just seems to me that as soon as the "OMG WOMAN MYSOGYNY GAMERS FEKRJHGRSKJN" card gets played it somehow completely invalodates every single other point brought up, not matter how legitimate
I mean, shit, even Wikileaks can see that shit for what it is
Hell, I'm getting close to my second decade as well, having been born in '95. Difference is, though, I was more attached to a PC than I was my N64. Yes, I call myself a gamer because that's what I am. I play games, I enjoy them, I'm an enthusiast who goes as far as to piece his own PC together to play them in the highest quality affordable. So yes, I'm going to get a tad bit salty when I'm likened to a random group of assholes throwing shit at other people. I'm gonna get a tad salty when said gaming sites I visit, the sites that gain ad rev offa me, are gonna turn around, generalize the hell outta me, and then proclaim me unneeded and dead.
But nah, these guys can't be doing anything wrong. Stardock's CEO totes deserved what hell he went through, even after those allegations were proven to be false and a public apology issued. Intel pulls ads over these publication's stupid shit and do they sit there and try to refute any points raised against them? No, the fling shit right at the people giving them money once more.
Frankly, I'm just wondering if anyone here vehemently against it has actually even attempted to get their story or even talk to them, heaven forbid.
author=Solitayre
I really feel like a lot of this has to do with how "gamers" were socialized as kids. In general, gamers who are in their twenties/thirties now grew up ostracized. They were the nerds, the outcasts, they got picked on. Now they're adults but they're still wired to see themselves as the victims. They always feel persecuted. It doesn't occur to them that they could be persecuting anyone else, because they've always been the people getting bullied in in their own minds.
Anyone who follows game-related news may have seen this in Mike Krahulik/Gabe of Penny-Arcade and how he's been known to say some pretty outrageous things anytime someone criticizes his artwork. What I think he fails to realize is he has gone from someone maligned by the system in his youth to becoming the system and essentially wielding a non-trivial amount of power over the gaming world. He's still, I think, operating under the mentality that people want to persecute him.
It's hard for some of these people to grow out of the mentality that they're always being picked on. That's probably how a lot of people get deluded into following such an ugly movement.
I have a victim complex? Nice to know.
I'm gonna leave this thread with this: http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/25/gamergate-an-issue-with-2-sides/
Gather 'round children. Grandpa kentona is about to lay down some truth. I survived the great video game crash of '83, and I was born with an Atari joystick in my mouth.
No. That is not it at all.
That the core of GamerGate is a venomous hate campaign is what invalidated anything else associated with it.
Disassociate yourself from that sham of a movement.
(practically) no one is denying that there are issues with game journalism. But piggybacking on a harassment movement will not get your viewpoints considered.
TehGuy, you are completely missing the forest for the trees.
But I'm just not surprised anymore. It just seems to me that as soon as the
"OMG WOMAN MYSOGYNY GAMERS FEKRJHGRSKJN" card gets played it somehow completely invalodates every single other point brought up, not matter how legitimate
No. That is not it at all.
That the core of GamerGate is a venomous hate campaign is what invalidated anything else associated with it.
Disassociate yourself from that sham of a movement.
(practically) no one is denying that there are issues with game journalism. But piggybacking on a harassment movement will not get your viewpoints considered.
TehGuy, you are completely missing the forest for the trees.
author=kentona
Gather 'round children. Grandpa kentona is about to lay down some truth. I survived the great video game crash of '83, and I was born with an Atari joystick in my mouth.
But I'm just not surprised anymore. It just seems to me that as soon as the
"OMG WOMAN MYSOGYNY GAMERS FEKRJHGRSKJN" card gets played it somehow completely invalodates every single other point brought up, not matter how legitimate
No. That is not it at all.
That the core of GamerGate is a venomous hate campaign is what invalidated anything else associated with it.
Disassociate yourself from that sham of a movement.
(practically) no one is denying that there are issues with game journalism. But piggybacking on a harassment movement will not get your viewpoints considered.
TehGuy, you are completely missing the forest for the trees.
Frankly, I would rather say I haven't associated myself with it more than I would say I sit neutrally on the issue as both sides raise fair points.
I keep tabs on the 'happenings'
>there was a lack of a devil's advocate, too.. I hate echo-chambers and hugboxes
>and because one side has just been screaming harassment and misogyny since day one and only changing slightly to relate it to ISIS/Hitler/KKK/what have you. One-sided stories piss me off to no end (as, uh, shown in that jumbled vomit of a post up there)
But I 'spose I'll continue playing the advocate as different views on the matter are interesting
That the core of GamerGate is a venomous hate campaign is what invalidated anything else associated with it.
Aye, that's what many publications and main-stream media has been pushing the entire time.
I suppose I can invalidate the opposition's argument on roughly the same basis as many proponents have been doxed, had EMS sent to their homes, mailed a steak knife with a letter "Go kill yourself", one journalist who wrote positively on the matter (Milo, I believe) was even mailed a damn syringe with god knows what in it
YouTuber Jayd3Fox simply put up a video and was supposedly horridly harassed about that as well. Totalbiscuit (perhaps the most neutral an outspoken individual can be on the matter) has even gotten shit on (also, he posted a bit on the board after he interviewed Mr. Totilo I believe).
Mrs. Christina Sommers, second-wave feminist I believe, is getting her fair share as well, even in the advent of her husband's passing, for stuff like this
This is a compiled list of a good bit of what they get, some of which I've already mentioned
I am not saying two wrongs make a right. What I'm trying to get at is that if one side is allowed to invalidate legit arguments because they believe it to be a venomous hate campaign, then I should be able to invalidate any counter-points because I believe the opponents to have launched a hate campaign of their own in retaliation in order to shut GG down (which has totally been going well for them these past 2 months)
Again, I neither support nor condemn GG but I'll be damned this thread turns into a one-sided echo-chamber/circlejerk and any actual debate ceases
>and I may be having a little fun actually being able to discuss this with people willing to actually discuss it (pro- or not). So, uh, thanks for that I guess
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=TehGuyauthor=LibertyI sure do hope you're gonna back that up with something..
It was basically a bunch of women (some of them hired) on the GG side of things who were basically saying "We're not going to be your reason for going against GG".
Secondly, it wasn't just women. There were plenty of other minorities in there as well.
author=Corfaisusauthor=TehGuyOh! The death of "gamer"! Boo-fucking-hoo, I'm so fucking upset! I'm going to go back to playing games because I'm not a whiny little shit who's only pride in life is calling myself a "gamer".
granted this stuff here is where shit really hit the fan: http://www.historyofgamergate.com/death-of-a-gamer.html
Fuck that shit.
To put this post into perspective: I was born in 1990, and while I have distinct memories since 1994 (a time in which gaming was already my life), the first time I was ever handed a controller (I'd assume; it's the only recorded history of my gaming origins) was when I was in diapers and sitting in one of those hand-basket car seat deals. With over 20 solid years of gaming being my babysitter/mentor/inspiration, I care more about the games than the empty "gamer" label.
Completely ignoring the fact that said sites depended on said gamers for the bulk of their revenue, as well as a bunch of articles on the same exact subject coming out practically in unison in the midst of accusations of collusion
Although true, I think it's just the slightest bit misguided to assume "we (directly or otherwise) give you money, listen to our demands!".
author=TehGuy
But fuck it, seeing as how that was the only damn thing of my entire post that was addressed I already know how this will peter out
This was the only thing I needed to bring attention to because nothing else has a point.
author=TehGuy
Now, I finished that video and I must say.. That was the shittiest debate I've ever seen, if I can even call it that. Constant interruptions of the opposing side sustained by the moderator really left it with said opposition barely even being able to tell their side of the shit. Fuck me for expecting both sides to reasonably be able to voice both their points and then factually dismantle one another's
No, let's instead cry about mean internet people
Enough was said and 8chan came up dry. If you don't see how this isn't a political "get out of jail free card", then you should indulge in a little more "journalism".
author=TehGuy
But I'm just not surprised anymore. It just seems to me that as soon as the "OMG WOMAN MYSOGYNY GAMERS FEKRJHGRSKJN" card gets played it somehow completely invalodates every single other point brought up, not matter how legitimate
Reference "but fuck it".
author=TehGuy
I mean, shit, even Wikileaks can see that shit for what it is
Just because the asshole behind Wikileaks doesn't see the problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
author=TehGuy
Hell, I'm getting close to my second decade as well, having been born in '95. Difference is, though, I was more attached to a PC than I was my N64. Yes, I call myself a gamer because that's what I am. I play games, I enjoy them, I'm an enthusiast who goes as far as to piece his own PC together to play them in the highest quality affordable. So yes, I'm going to get a tad bit salty when I'm likened to a random group of assholes throwing shit at other people. I'm gonna get a tad salty when said gaming sites I visit, the sites that gain ad rev offa me, are gonna turn around, generalize the hell outta me, and then proclaim me unneeded and dead.
This is probably a big source of your frustration. Trust me, when you get older (like actually getting into the thick of your 20s), your views change and you realize how fucking stupid everything you bitched about as a teenager actually is.
"When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me."
author=TehGuy
But nah, these guys can't be doing anything wrong. Stardock's CEO totes deserved what hell he went through, even after those allegations were proven to be false and a public apology issued. Intel pulls ads over these publication's stupid shit and do they sit there and try to refute any points raised against them? No, the fling shit right at the people giving them money once more.
They pulled their advertisements on the grounds of a whiny bunch of "gamers" who used copy/pasted responses to push a "legitimate" claim and managed to strong-arm an otherwise unrelated company into doing their bidding. You don't negotiate with terrorists for this reason alone.
author=TehGuy
Frankly, I'm just wondering if anyone here vehemently against it has actually even attempted to get their story or even talk to them, heaven forbid.
All the bullshit is laid out clean before us.
author=TehGuyauthor=SolitayreI have a victim complex? Nice to know.
I really feel like a lot of this has to do with how "gamers" were socialized as kids. In general, gamers who are in their twenties/thirties now grew up ostracized. They were the nerds, the outcasts, they got picked on. Now they're adults but they're still wired to see themselves as the victims. They always feel persecuted. It doesn't occur to them that they could be persecuting anyone else, because they've always been the people getting bullied in in their own minds.
Anyone who follows game-related news may have seen this in Mike Krahulik/Gabe of Penny-Arcade and how he's been known to say some pretty outrageous things anytime someone criticizes his artwork. What I think he fails to realize is he has gone from someone maligned by the system in his youth to becoming the system and essentially wielding a non-trivial amount of power over the gaming world. He's still, I think, operating under the mentality that people want to persecute him.
It's hard for some of these people to grow out of the mentality that they're always being picked on. That's probably how a lot of people get deluded into following such an ugly movement.
Yeah, probably.
author=TehGuy
I'm gonna leave this thread with this: http://techcrunch.com/2014/09/25/gamergate-an-issue-with-2-sides/
People have problems with other people they don't know "telling them what to buy"? Whatever happened to talking to friends or doing your own damn research into the matter?
With all this back and forth about people being "sheep" for succumbing to the feminist "agenda", they sure haven't bothered to "rid the log" from their own eye, so to speak.
no, the point is GamerGate is a hate campaign, thus it is attracting it's own haters.
it needs to die.
Just because those that supporters of GG are getting their own hatemail and threats does not make GG legitimate.
There are no "both sides". There is a hate campaign. And people hating on the hate campaign. There is nothing else there.
THERE ARE NO SIDES. ONLY HATE.
E:
There is also no moral highground to be claimed by playing devil's advocate here. It simply reveals naivety. The false equivalency paradigm is a tricky one.
it needs to die.
Just because those that supporters of GG are getting their own hatemail and threats does not make GG legitimate.
There are no "both sides". There is a hate campaign. And people hating on the hate campaign. There is nothing else there.
THERE ARE NO SIDES. ONLY HATE.
E:
There is also no moral highground to be claimed by playing devil's advocate here. It simply reveals naivety. The false equivalency paradigm is a tricky one.
Yeah, probably.
First, thanks for dissecting my post bit by bit to replying. I'd go through and do the same, but I feel as if it'd drag this someone neither of us want to go with it
Second, thaaaaaanks. While, yes, I may have been slightly socially ostracized in my youth I have since then come to recognize that the people who bullied me, and them only, were assholes with their own set of problems (or just plain assholes). :p
author=kentona
THERE ARE NO SIDES. ONLY HATE.
I'm slightly inclined to disagree, but only on the 'there are no sides' bit as the hate from all directions is undeniably there; however, I'm content on leaving this on "agree-to-disagree" terms if you are so willing
Anyways, seeing as how things seem to be getting a bit.. heated, so to say, perhaps we can move on to speculating as to how one would end it and any possible changes to the industry we may see after it's over? To be frank, I'm largely more interested in that then the bile being passed around in current events.
Let's go both ways with this
Say GG's points are realized (the actual points: the corruption, collusion, etc.) and they 'win', what do you suppose would come of that?
Say GG up and fails in the near future, how about then? Do you suppose another upheaval could occur, hopefully a group with actual focus?
I'm also a bit interested in how much longer anyone thinks it's gonna last. As they, themselves, say "their autism cannot be matched" and their "long grinds in MMOs prepared (them) for this". They seem pretty content in turning this into a war of attrition, assuming it has not done so already with advertisements being pulled and sites supposedly losing large sums of money.
Also, anyone see that call to render sites like archive.today as illegal on the basis that people who use it are pirating a website?
The conclusion one can come to is that indie developers are supposed to just accept that if you have sex with influential game industry media people, you are entitled to the unfair advantage it affords you.
Meanwhile, the indie developer who doesn't use sex as a networking tool but does have big dreams and creativity is supposed to somehow compete against that.
And not accepting this paradigm means they're "just haters." The cure for these haters is to accept and put up with things like:
Threats to career.
Comparisons to terrorists.
Racism.
Cool story. Pardon me while I groom my neckbeard in the mirror I keep in my basement where I live.
Meanwhile, the indie developer who doesn't use sex as a networking tool but does have big dreams and creativity is supposed to somehow compete against that.
And not accepting this paradigm means they're "just haters." The cure for these haters is to accept and put up with things like:
Threats to career.
Comparisons to terrorists.
Racism.
Cool story. Pardon me while I groom my neckbeard in the mirror I keep in my basement where I live.
author=TehGuyYeah, probably.First, thanks for dissecting my post bit by bit to replying. I'd go through and do the same, but I feel as if it'd drag this someone neither of us want to go with it
Second, thaaaaaanks. While, yes, I may have been slightly socially ostracized in my youth I have since then come to recognize that the people who bullied me, and them only, were assholes with their own set of problems (or just plain assholes). :p
author=kentona
THERE ARE NO SIDES. ONLY HATE.
I'm slightly inclined to disagree, but only on the 'there are no sides' bit as the hate from all directions is undeniably there; however, I'm content on leaving this on "agree-to-disagree" terms if you are so willing
Anyways, seeing as how things seem to be getting a bit.. heated, so to say, perhaps we can move on to speculating as to how one would end it and any possible changes to the industry we may see after it's over? To be frank, I'm largely more interested in that then the bile being passed around in current events.
Let's go both ways with this
Say GG's points are realized (the actual points: the corruption, collusion, etc.) and they 'win', what do you suppose would come of that?
Say GG up and fails in the near future, how about then? Do you suppose another upheaval could occur, hopefully a group with actual focus?
I'm also a bit interested in how much longer anyone thinks it's gonna last. As they, themselves, say "their autism cannot be matched" and their "long grinds in MMOs prepared (them) for this". They seem pretty content in turning this into a war of attrition, assuming it has not done so already with advertisements being pulled and sites supposedly losing large sums of money.
Also, anyone see that call to render sites like archive.today as illegal on the basis that people who use it are pirating a website?
The point of GG was to harass a woman. They realized that point. That was the actual point. This is not a debate about game development integrity or game journalism ethics.
What do I suppose came of that? Well, it looks like some people are still convinced it was not about a harassment campaign, so I guess it shows that there are real issues in the gaming industry, but that the GG campaign will go nowhere because it is built on a toxic foundation that allows it's critics to dismiss it wholehog.
If the people really wanted to change the industry, then they will have to drop the GG banner.
author=kentona
snip
The difference being, apparently you are okay with hatred, threats, and bigotry as long as it's directed at GG supporters, while the vast majority of GG supporters are against those things.
Let's be real. I know you aren't okay with any hatred/threats/bigotry, but, to someone who doesn't know you, one has to wonder why all the rotten behavior on the anti-GG side seems to avoid the same scrutiny that the GG side gets for their rotten behavior.
author=harmonic
The difference being, apparently you are okay with hatred, threats, and bigotry as long as it's directed at GG supporters, while the vast majority of GG supporters are against those things.
Let's be real. I know you aren't okay with any hatred/threats/bigotry, but, to someone who doesn't know you, one has to wonder why all the rotten behavior on the anti-GG side seems to avoid the same scrutiny that the GG side gets for their rotten behavior.
There's a pretty big difference between hating a movement soaked in violence and attacking women with threats of violence.
Like I said earlier, any group of even a small size is bound to have assholes, and there's no excuse for people making violent threats against Gamergaters. However, GamerGate both was borne from violent threats with and continues to progress with violent threats. Actions speak louder than words, and the actions of people under the Gamergate flag have been screaming volumes of dripping hatred since its conception. Talking about being against corruption in games is not enough to erase that.
Hating the movement and the terrible things it's associated with isn't bigotry. Gamergate has very clearly shown what it considers important. Threatening individuals is a mistake. But... when someone openly associates themselves with a group known for attacking women, how do you discern which ones have good intent? How do you explain that they are aligning themselves with something cruel?
