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WAS ANYONE ELSE HERE DISAPPOINTED WITH FF 6?
Posts
Liberty
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Closeauthor=Mr_TagoMagoauthor=LibertyDamn dude your elitist all the way. Robert Christgau is a professional music critic but he's an idiot. Most professional critics are just tools. Quit saying your opinion is fact.
Did someone say 'heartstrings'?
I crie erry tiem. Seriously, though, that's the good shit right there. ;^;
Earthbound has some good tracks but pound for pound it doesn't match up. Thing is, we're not denying that it doesn't have good music, what we're saying is that compared to FF6 it's not as good. You, on the other hand, seem to be trolling because you keep maintaining that it's above FF6's OST - which is recognised by professionals to be one of the, if not the, best OSTs to come from that era (I think CT's beats it out). It's a ludicrous claim. Sure, say that you prefer it, that's fine, but don't claim that it's factually better because that is wrong.
For one, Square really pushed the bar with FF6. They experimented the fuck out of what they could get out of the system at the time. They tried to replicate human voice - which couldn't be done - creating a haunting opera song that pulls the heartstrings ... and the story presented in the opera is not even a major plot point. The music fits every scene perfectly and it sticks in the mind years after playing. Not only that, but they had three composers working in conjunction on the game, one of them being the very noteworthy Uematsu, one of the best composers around. Games have been made from having his name attached to them because he is one of the best and FF6 is one of his masterpieces.
There's a reason your dismissal of it caused a backlash - because it (and CT) is the definitive musical sound of jRPGs of that era. Fullstop. No argument.
Earthbound has some good songs, yes, but it does not stand up to FF6. You like it better, fine, but it is not better. Hell, I like a lot of games music more than FF6's but even I know that they don't hit it out of the park as much as FF6 did (and CT but again, that soundtrack is just hnnnng).
(From that era I enjoyed BoFII and Lufia II's music, but even I can admit they don't stand up to FF6/CT in terms of composition and long-lastingness, even if they are charming and ear-catching in their own right.)
Truth is truth. Sorry to see you prefer denial.
The FACT is that FF6 and CT have the best OSTs of their era, bar absolutely none. There are games with good songs, and games with a good series of songs, but none are up to the level of these two games. That you cannot, nay, will not see this is pretty silly. Stubborness is only a virtue when you don't use it on points of fact - i.e. things that will not change no matter how hard you rally against it. Immutable fact.
I am not being elitist, nor am I being a troll, nor am I saying that your opinion doesn't count, nor am I opining myself. The true and simple fact of the matter is that music-wise (and the like - sound effects/atmosphere/etc), FF6 and CT are far and away more superior than Earthbound. And fact doesn't care about opinion.
I'm done posting here. I don't like elitism and people who get personal over disagreements in opinions. Y'all are being rude as hell but think what you want. Sorry that I'm a fucking aspy and can't express my thoughts well but I never intended this.
guys why do you like quote giant posts four times in every page instead of just quoting eachother's name with an @ that's like so much better ;_; (sorry it's been a while already and it's bothering me ;^^^^^^^;)
*spreads hugs and chocolate muffins*
EDIT: Goodbye Mr_TagoMago, your presence was a short, but remarkable one. ;w;
*goodbye hug*
*goodbye fondants*
*goodbye chocolate topping*
*goodbye chocolate cake dressed with mint chocolate chips*
EDIT2: no, i can't be that mean
*spreads hugs and chocolate muffins*
EDIT: Goodbye Mr_TagoMago, your presence was a short, but remarkable one. ;w;
*goodbye hug*
*goodbye fondants*
*goodbye chocolate topping*
*goodbye chocolate cake dressed with mint chocolate chips*
EDIT2: no, i can't be that mean
author=JosephSeraphThis guy is cool in my book.
guys why do you like quote giant posts four times in every page instead of just quoting eachother's name with an @ that's like so much better ;_; (sorry it's been a while already and it's bothering me ;^^^^^^^;)
*spreads hugs and chocolate muffins*
oh also this gets me every time:
it's just like too fucking beautiful and toxicly, bitterly sweet.
to tell the truth this whole album is OH MY GOD
(please disregard the relative cheesiness in the vocals and instrumentals)
it's just like too fucking beautiful and toxicly, bitterly sweet.
to tell the truth this whole album is OH MY GOD
(please disregard the relative cheesiness in the vocals and instrumentals)
author=Mr_TagoMago
I'm done posting here. I don't like elitism and people who get personal over disagreements in opinions. Y'all are being rude as hell but think what you want. Sorry that I'm a fucking aspy and can't express my thoughts well but I never intended this.
We're not being rude. If you see this discussion as rude then you need to have more debates and discussions, because everyone has been pretty polite about this. There has been no name-calling or personal attacks of any kind. Just people disagreeing with you on one point.
A discussion requires people to talk and discourse and part of that is disagreeing and even correcting misinformation. You aren't backing down, fine, so leave the discussion, but leaving a site just because you were corrected over something is silly and juvenile. Frankly, it might be a good idea to take a deep breath and analyse why you feel like people are attacking you when they're not - they're attacking the mis-information you're throwing out, but not you.
You can have your opinion that you really like x or y, but saying it's the best out of all the others of their kind, when they aren't is more than a little silly. You are always free to have your opinion, but don't present them as facts.
There has been no elitism in the conversation - just a general pointing out that you have been acting trollish due to your inability to understand the difference between opinion and fact, and because you don't concede that perhaps, while Earthbound does have some good songs, it isn't up to the standards of an OST that is widely considered by many fans and professionals to be the best (or second best).
Take a chill pill, calm down, then come back. Don't leave over something silly.
author=LibertyI meant I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore not the site. What's bothering me is assuming I'm a troll because I don't agree with the masses.author=Mr_TagoMagoWe're not being rude. If you see this discussion as rude then you need to have more debates and discussions, because everyone has been pretty polite about this. There has been no name-calling or personal attacks of any kind. Just people disagreeing with you on one point.
I'm done posting here. I don't like elitism and people who get personal over disagreements in opinions. Y'all are being rude as hell but think what you want. Sorry that I'm a fucking aspy and can't express my thoughts well but I never intended this.
A discussion requires people to talk and discourse and part of that is disagreeing and even correcting misinformation. You aren't backing down, fine, so leave the discussion, but leaving a site just because you were corrected over something is silly and juvenile. Frankly, it might be a good idea to take a deep breath and analyse why you feel like people are attacking you when they're not - they're attacking the mis-information you're throwing out, but not you.
You can have your opinion that you really like x or y, but saying it's the best out of all the others of their kind, when they aren't is more than a little silly. You are always free to have your opinion, but don't present them as facts.
There has been no elitism in the conversation - just a general pointing out that you have been acting trollish due to your inability to understand the difference between opinion and fact, and because you don't concede that perhaps, while Earthbound does have some good songs, it isn't up to the standards of an OST that is widely considered by many fans and professionals to be the best (or second best).
Take a chill pill, calm down, then come back. Don't leave over something silly.
This is elitism here.
while Earthbound does have some good songs, it isn't up to the standards of an OST that is widely considered by many fans and professionals to be the best (or second best).
Your stating that as a fact and that's what I disapprove of. Again I can name many artist who are considered widely to be the best but any person with decent music knowledge can tell you they aren't. I once had a similar experience like this when I asked if anyone else found Metallica overrated. I didn't expect the same thing to happen again.
Simply put as far as I can tell. Earth bounds soundtrack is more diverse, catchier, and more unique and interesting than Final Fantasies soundtrack which is as far as I can tell just another classical music soundtrack. You seem biased because you prefer FF6 as a game and I'm sure I do too but the music in FF 6 did nothing to standout as I was playing it. Maybe I'd like it better if I layed down and listened to it with my headphones on but as I was playing the game it did nothing to catch my attention.
This is a great tune. Not from a videogame but would work well in one IMO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCPoQBQ54mw
author=Liberty
Actually, from that game I prefer Melodies of Life. Sorry~
Freya is great though. She was an instant fave for me, I just wish they did more for her and Amarant character-wise. The story was more focussed around Garnet/Eiko/Vivi/MonkeybuttZidane instead. Understandable, since their stories are tied up in the actual plot itself. Freya, Quina, and Amarant are just along for the ride and Steiner is somewhere in-between.
Oh, don't even get me started on the plot of FF9. That game had such a good chance to be incredible and completely blew it after the first third. As soon as Cleyra/Lindblum get nuked and the story starts focusing on that fuckface Garnet everything falls down the proverbial stairs of quality head first.
I speak from a somewhat heavy bias of course, but even outside of that the destruction of Cleyra and Lindblum are pretty much entirely her fault. If she hadn't of, you know, drugged the party just so she could completely revolt against all evidence and common sense and walk right into Brahne's lap, Brahne wouldn't have been able to decimate what pretty much amounts to half of the civilization on the planet in like 2 fucking hours.
The best part is that after she pulls all that shit you're supposed to feel bad for her. Why does everybody in the party handwave what a stupid shithead she is? She hands a completely mind boggling amount of power over to a tyrannical ruler and everyone is just like "WOW WHAT A HARD LIFE YOU HAVE GARNET I LOVE YOU".
And then they try and make you feel bad for Brahne. FOR BRAHNE. The woman who almost just wiped out an entire species of people. Wow, I have so much empathy because it was totally Kuja all along, now all is forgiven!
FUCK.
All this so they could "write" some stupid romance between a bland MC and a character so braindead that she'd have a hard time figuring out what direction forward was if she wasn't following somebody.
I'm not sure how I managed to make it to Terra before giving up on the damn thing (yes, I got that far and stopped). My best guess is that it was so I could sit there and drool about Freya while pretending that she still had something to do with the plot of the fucking game.
/rant
Also yeah, I wish there were more Freya/Amarant scenes (as I do with pretty much every character that got shafted out of airtime by the "love story"), probably because I named Amarant after myself cause wow, I totally have friends you guys HONEST
author=Pizzaauthor=LibertyOh, don't even get me started on the plot of FF9. That game had such a good chance to be incredible and completely blew it after the first third. As soon as Cleyra/Lindblum get nuked and the story starts focusing on that fuckface Garnet everything falls down the proverbial stairs of quality head first.
Actually, from that game I prefer Melodies of Life. Sorry~
Freya is great though. She was an instant fave for me, I just wish they did more for her and Amarant character-wise. The story was more focussed around Garnet/Eiko/Vivi/MonkeybuttZidane instead. Understandable, since their stories are tied up in the actual plot itself. Freya, Quina, and Amarant are just along for the ride and Steiner is somewhere in-between.
I speak from a somewhat heavy bias of course, but even outside of that the destruction of Cleyra and Lindblum are pretty much entirely her fault. If she hadn't of, you know, drugged the party just so she could completely revolt against all evidence and common sense and walk right into Brahne's lap, Brahne wouldn't have been able to decimate what pretty much amounts to half of the civilization on the planet in like 2 fucking hours.
The best part is that after she pulls all that shit you're supposed to feel bad for her. Why does everybody in the party handwave what a stupid shithead she is? She hands a completely mind boggling amount of power over to a tyrannical ruler and everyone is just like "WOW WHAT A HARD LIFE YOU HAVE GARNET I LOVE YOU".
And then they try and make you feel bad for Brahne. FOR BRAHNE. The woman who almost just wiped out an entire species of people. Wow, I have so much empathy because it was totally Kuja all along, now all is forgiven!
FUCK.
All this so they could "write" some stupid romance between a bland MC and a character so braindead that she'd have a hard time figuring out what direction forward was if she wasn't following somebody.
I'm not sure how I managed to make it to Terra before giving up on the damn thing (yes, I got that far and stopped). My best guess is that it was so I could sit there and drool about Freya while pretending that she still had something to do with the plot of the fucking game.
/rant
Also yeah, I wish there were more Freya/Amarant scenes (as I do with pretty much every character that got shafted out of airtime by the "love story"), probably because I named Amarant after myself cause wow, I totally have friends you guys HONEST
How's about that FF 8 plot lol?
I haven't actually played 8. I don't know if I could stomach it after putting up with 9, to be honest.
author=PizzaI've never played 9 but I've played 8 and I enjoyed it for what it was but issues it had many. I hear FF 13 is the worst though. Damn makes me glad to be a Dragon Quest fan over Final fantasy.
I haven't actually played 8. I don't know if I could stomach it after putting up with 9, to be honest.
ff8 is totally one of the freshest RPG's, in setting, I have ever played.
Visually stunning, it is simply amazing. The soundtrack is also pretty great. The only thing I honestly didn't like is how easy the game was. Like, so ridiculously broken and easily it's even sad. But with a little more thought that system has a lot of potential.
I'd totally play an FF8-2 with irvine weaking minishorts and dual-wielding his shotguns while backflipping in the air
god I'm now imagining Irvine, Zell and Squall dressed up as YRP.
THIS NEEDS TO BE A THING
Visually stunning, it is simply amazing. The soundtrack is also pretty great. The only thing I honestly didn't like is how easy the game was. Like, so ridiculously broken and easily it's even sad. But with a little more thought that system has a lot of potential.
I'd totally play an FF8-2 with irvine weaking minishorts and dual-wielding his shotguns while backflipping in the air
god I'm now imagining Irvine, Zell and Squall dressed up as YRP.
THIS NEEDS TO BE A THING
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Uh, it would be Squall, Zell, and a new character named Ouche. Irvine would not be playable, as he would be pregnant.
author=JosephSeraph
THEY DON'T HAVE MULTI-PHASED LAST BOSS THEMES THAT ARE 20 MINUTES LONG OR A 22 MINUTE ENDING THAT'S A REENACTMENT OF ALL THE GAME'S ACTS
please don't disrespect the giygas fight because it's the best final boss
author=LockeZ
Uh, it would be Squall, Zell, and a new character named Ouche. Irvine would not be playable, as he would be pregnant.
Considering Paine is
AND THAT TRIBUTE IS TOTES OSOM
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
As the guy who's spent the last 11 years of my life running a Final Fantasy MUD, who is named after an FF6 character, and who can very literally play up through the end of Figaro Castle with the television turned off, you can't really expect me to roll over, but I was not trying to be an asshole. I do think calling people elitist for explaining and justifying their opinions in great detail makes you an asshole though. I mean what could you possibly want out of a debate if not that?
You do not have to like a fact for it to be true. Composition-wise, the OSTs for FF6 and CT are far and away better. That is fact. That's all there is to it.
"Again I can name many artist who are considered widely to be the best but any person with decent music knowledge can tell you they aren't. I once had a similar experience like this when I asked if anyone else found Metallica overrated."
Yeah, that's great and all, but Nubuo is the best. There's no argument to the contrary. His compositions are incredible, his music is amazing - not because he's popular but because he creates masterful works of art. That's it. You cannot say he is not the best jRPG composer out there because it is widely acknowledged, even by his peers and by those in the industry, as the best (or one of).
And in the SNES era he was considered the best because he was, at that time, the best the business had to offer. It's why Square snapped him up - because he is known as best by anyone who knows anything about musical composition.
This isn't a case of Metallica vs Beatles. It's a case of Beethoven vs Lizst. At that time and place, in that genre, Nobuo's compositions beat out others in terms of complexity, technical ability and straight out being a well-crafted piece of music. No ifs, buts or whatevers.
And even if it is elitist to think of someone who is the best as the best, what of it? That's not a bad thing. It's honestly won admiration and applause. He worked hard to get to the top and it's not a bad thing to admit that he is the best in the business. Are there better composers? I'm sure there are. But they are not currently in the gaming business, nor were they back during the SNES era, about which this debate is taking place.
The only time elitism is bad is when you're propping yourself up and/or when you have nothing to back up the claim.
Even the Forbes list of greatest OST of all time has his at 2nd place for Chrono Trigger (He has other entries in the list, with the FF series at 5th). Hell, his compositions have been played by many an orchestra all over the world. That is how bloody good they are. Not an opinion. Just fact.
Now, on to better things:
I wasn't big on 8, tbh. I like some of the characters and the setting was great (though I far prefer 6, 7 and 9s settings) but there was something about it I just couldn't like. Didn't help that I screwed myself out of an ending by getting to level 100 before end game and thus upping the difficulty of Ulty's castle incredibly. (Add in that I had saved over my previous save and thus was stuck inside that fucking castle...) Well... yeah. I can't really play through it again - I stop around the second disc for some reason. Might be that I hate Rinoa. Much prefer Selphie as a love interest for Squall.
"Again I can name many artist who are considered widely to be the best but any person with decent music knowledge can tell you they aren't. I once had a similar experience like this when I asked if anyone else found Metallica overrated."
Yeah, that's great and all, but Nubuo is the best. There's no argument to the contrary. His compositions are incredible, his music is amazing - not because he's popular but because he creates masterful works of art. That's it. You cannot say he is not the best jRPG composer out there because it is widely acknowledged, even by his peers and by those in the industry, as the best (or one of).
And in the SNES era he was considered the best because he was, at that time, the best the business had to offer. It's why Square snapped him up - because he is known as best by anyone who knows anything about musical composition.
This isn't a case of Metallica vs Beatles. It's a case of Beethoven vs Lizst. At that time and place, in that genre, Nobuo's compositions beat out others in terms of complexity, technical ability and straight out being a well-crafted piece of music. No ifs, buts or whatevers.
And even if it is elitist to think of someone who is the best as the best, what of it? That's not a bad thing. It's honestly won admiration and applause. He worked hard to get to the top and it's not a bad thing to admit that he is the best in the business. Are there better composers? I'm sure there are. But they are not currently in the gaming business, nor were they back during the SNES era, about which this debate is taking place.
The only time elitism is bad is when you're propping yourself up and/or when you have nothing to back up the claim.
Even the Forbes list of greatest OST of all time has his at 2nd place for Chrono Trigger (He has other entries in the list, with the FF series at 5th). Hell, his compositions have been played by many an orchestra all over the world. That is how bloody good they are. Not an opinion. Just fact.
Now, on to better things:
I wasn't big on 8, tbh. I like some of the characters and the setting was great (though I far prefer 6, 7 and 9s settings) but there was something about it I just couldn't like. Didn't help that I screwed myself out of an ending by getting to level 100 before end game and thus upping the difficulty of Ulty's castle incredibly. (Add in that I had saved over my previous save and thus was stuck inside that fucking castle...) Well... yeah. I can't really play through it again - I stop around the second disc for some reason. Might be that I hate Rinoa. Much prefer Selphie as a love interest for Squall.
Avee
5794
author=LockeZ
...I'm sure there are other things I only like because of nostalgia. Most of the time, people aren't really capable of analyzing their own likes and dislikes enough to recognize when that's true though. It's easier to see in someone else than in yourself.
I don't know how you could be curious about something because of nostalgia. That's like an oxymoron. Nostalgia means you're already familiar with it.
I also think "taste" is a skill that you can be better or worse at. Not necessarily that some criteria for quality are better than others, but more that you can be better at the ability to truly see whether a given thing matches your own criteria, without being blinded by things like proximity or prejudgement...
I can relate to how sometimes we don't give much thought about why we like a specific thing or prefer this over that. Sometimes it's also a matter of not having/knowing of a better alternative, or that the qualities ultimately outweigh the flaws, the latter becoming tolerable/forgivable.
For anyone to enjoy or give value to a game solely because of nostalgia, I think that's impossible. Fallacy of the single cause.
There has to be at least one fairly objective quality to this game in order for you to like it, one thing that should logically appeal to several players even if they have widely different tastes.
For instance, DQ1 is pretty awful by today's standards. Yet it features an open world. You can complete the tasks in almost any order. There's a sense of freedom and discovery, at least the first time you play through.
Oh, hi there Skyrim!
FF4 has a bunch of distinct classes with unique strengths and different optimal roles to fill during battle. That allows for one kind of strategy-based gameplay, which is widely agreed as being better than having all characters be identical and play the same.
I'd bet that you like Bubble Tape because it also tastes good on your buds (for 5 seconds). That's more than nostalgia.
That's how I see it anyway.
Blame my poor choice of words when I mentioned curiosity, or rather my lack of developing my thoughts:
I was curious about DuckTales Remastered because of nostalgia. I was curious about Shovel Knight as well because of the art style and gameplay.
Then, when I played those games, I found out that I wasn't having as much fun as I expected to.
Nostalgia got me interested in playing. Playing let me assess those games' qualities and flaws and decide whether I liked them or not.
On the last point quoted, I get what you're talking about. Reasoning, emotional detachment, self criticism... those can be put to good use to better one's tastes. Tastes are still mostly subjective though; one person's "good" might be another's "great" or "bad".
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
While I do believe FF6's soundtrack is absolutely fantastic, (the opera and final battle that completely retells Kefka's story through its music being prime examples) I do not agree that the opinion of the many and the opinions of experts can be considered fact and above scrutiny. They are still opinions and will remain opinions. I'm pretty glad the fact 'women are worth less than men' wasn't above scrutiny.
However, calling everyone elitist but then saying 'I'm an avid music fan I know what I'm talking about' and that professional music critics are tools seems extremely hypocritical.
However, calling everyone elitist but then saying 'I'm an avid music fan I know what I'm talking about' and that professional music critics are tools seems extremely hypocritical.
