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WAS ANYONE ELSE HERE DISAPPOINTED WITH FF 6?
Posts
TheNecromancer
3160
TheNecromancer
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CloseBut there is a difference between analyzing music and people's opinions(woman are worth less). The fact that they are both classified as opinions doesn't mean they can be equally compared. Saying/thinking/promoting that a piece of music is worthless doesn't affect anybodys daily life. Except maybe a record labels bottom line.
I don't think I'd ever even say anything is the best anything. At the end of the day it's a pointless argument. Oneshot was the best game made this year.
As for the OP, I was mainly disappointed in the ps1 version of FF6 that I played. Fucking load times for random battles and menu access. Why didn't I just play on an emulator?
I don't think I'd ever even say anything is the best anything. At the end of the day it's a pointless argument. Oneshot was the best game made this year.
As for the OP, I was mainly disappointed in the ps1 version of FF6 that I played. Fucking load times for random battles and menu access. Why didn't I just play on an emulator?
Housekeeping
3571
Nobuo Uematsu isn't the best video game composer; he's the John Williams of video game composition. He has good, memorable hooks, but he doesn't break new ground very often. I like the guy, but I think Earthbound's soundtrack is way more interesting than FF6's when you take all of their contemporaries into account.
To answer the topic's question, I wasn't disappointed with FF6 at all. It absolutely blew 5th grade Housekeeping away, and it's still one of my favorite rpgs.
To answer the topic's question, I wasn't disappointed with FF6 at all. It absolutely blew 5th grade Housekeeping away, and it's still one of my favorite rpgs.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Liberty
For one, Square really pushed the bar with FF6. They experimented the fuck out of what they could get out of the system at the time. They tried to replicate human voice - which couldn't be done - creating a haunting opera song that pulls the heartstrings ...
Four whole years before FF6, and on the NES, too. Not to mention the sound bites that play after RAMP mode such as "No way, dude!" The fact that the title screen is perfectly synced (the first thing you see in the game, unlike the opera scene which is semi/mostly(?) synced and x hours into the game) with the music really sets it apart. You can't really tell by the video, but the multiple skate's and die's flash by themselves before returning to normal; that's engineering.
Three whole years before FF6 (even if it cost them a shitload to produce).
They were closer to real than multiple pitches of "burrrrrrrrrrr" ever were.
Shinan
4314
I hate Final Fantasies (well not hate but actively don't care for) but there was a time when I was really into them.
It was during FF7-8 and finding out about emulators. I think FF6 is basically the only game where I've played through the whole thing on an emulator. Oftentimes playing roms meant that I sampled a bit and then got bored because I had hundreds of other games to play!
I had heard a lot of the hype by the time I tried the game out (probably not as much as there is now, but a fair chunk) but I was still blown away very early in the game. Aften slogging through the introductions (this is a "Final Fantasy game alright it has that time bar thingie") I ended up on the overworld and heard the overworld theme (Terra's Theme probably) and I just sat back for a second. I didn't dare to move because I didn't want a random encounter, I was just amazed at "what was this music? Was this possible on the SNES?"
So I was pretty blown away by FF6 at the time and yeah it's probably the best FF I've played (I've played 6-8 and dabbled in 5 and 9). So no it was not a disappointment. I don't know how I would feel did I play it now when I dislike all jRPGs and have experienced so many other awesome games. But you know 15 years ago it was still okay.
It was during FF7-8 and finding out about emulators. I think FF6 is basically the only game where I've played through the whole thing on an emulator. Oftentimes playing roms meant that I sampled a bit and then got bored because I had hundreds of other games to play!
I had heard a lot of the hype by the time I tried the game out (probably not as much as there is now, but a fair chunk) but I was still blown away very early in the game. Aften slogging through the introductions (this is a "Final Fantasy game alright it has that time bar thingie") I ended up on the overworld and heard the overworld theme (Terra's Theme probably) and I just sat back for a second. I didn't dare to move because I didn't want a random encounter, I was just amazed at "what was this music? Was this possible on the SNES?"
So I was pretty blown away by FF6 at the time and yeah it's probably the best FF I've played (I've played 6-8 and dabbled in 5 and 9). So no it was not a disappointment. I don't know how I would feel did I play it now when I dislike all jRPGs and have experienced so many other awesome games. But you know 15 years ago it was still okay.
author=CorfaisusYeah, but they're not SNES. Different systems, mate. The SNES had issues with actual voice bytes and that's why, instead of actually using a human voice, they went with the pseudo voices for the opera and Kefka's laugh.
:Videos that are not from SNES games:
They were closer to real than multiple pitches of "burrrrrrrrrrr" ever were.
It's like comparing the capabilities of 95 to Ace. There are some things that 95 just cannot do. Well, more like XP to Ace. XP is capable of being graphically superior due to the mapping system, but it falls short of every other aspect of the other engine, unless you want to fudge things to try to get them to pseudo work. That's the SNES vs NES/SEGA/etc. Graphically it was capable of a lot, and sure, the sound was very good, but it had issues with human voice bytes. Especially with the engine that Squeenix was using in those days.
(For those who don't know, it's not a case of just slamming a game on a console and saying 'done'. They have to code a system of sorts, and each is different to the other.
Go play Game Dev Tycoon. It'll show you better what I mean. Available on Steam for cheap. Or watch a youtube LP of it. Great game - it's a game creating simulation. You, too, can pretend to be a game developer!
Oh.)
I have to say, 6's music is still better than some of the shit that passes for game music today, even in its midi form.
The original Final Fantasy more or less invented the modern RPG, Final Fantasy II and III would see Square tweaking and playing with the original game's formula a little bit while experimenting with storytelling methods, but it's not until FF4 that you really see them step up their game in a big way.
The first SNES FF entry, FF4 was one of the first RPGs to tell a cohesive, character-driven story from beginning to end, while incorporating all classical elements of the early FF games; its job system, magic, airships, etc. Set across a mind-blowing three worlds and with a fantastic soundtrack, it really set the stage for what Final Fantasy was going to become. Its only real drawbacks, in my opinion, was the way it stuck to some of the older, outdated mechanics of older games, such as the awful inventory management and the fact that despite having nearly a dozen playable characters, you stick with the same 5 for most of the game. Its various remakes would address these issues with varying degrees of success.
FF5 was next and while it didn't really try to break any new ground technologically, its memorable adaptation of the job system created a game experience that was surprisingly deep and complex and a lot of fun. The game also experimented with the multiple worlds idea brought about by FF4 and had these worlds interact in interesting ways, and the game's final act is a menagerie of optional content with little purpose other than to explore, have fun, and get stronger. The game's only drawback is its rather weak and forgettable narrative and characters. If you need to get drawn into the game world and its story to want to play a game, this one might lose some of its appeal.
Final Fantasy 6 combined everything they had learned from 4 & 5, combined with a massive step forward visually to create the game that would change the modern RPG permanently. The character-driven drama of 4 combined with the strategic depth of 5, combined with some outrageously good visuals for its time, memorable characters and one of the best soundtracks, Final Fantasy 6 brought roleplaying games to the mainstream and made the big budget RPG that would be pioneered by 7 possible. Almost every RPG that has come out since has stolen so liberally from FF6 that it's little wonder that people who grew up playing the games that came after it don't see anything special about it. It's the Citizen Kane of the modern RPG.
But if FF6 was Citizen Kane then FF7 was RPG's The Godfather. Everything from FF6 was taken and expanded on into a scope so huge and visually stunning that this game still has a rabid fanbase today. Sure, its graphics look dated but you can see a lot of soul in this game. In my opinion one of the best parts of FF7 is how much of it is more or less a black comedy. FF7 is a very silly game, which almost nobody remembers anymore. Its a game that remembered to be a game and have fun with itself. Its only drawback is its fairly abyssal translation that makes it really hard to enjoy the game as an adult, in my opinion.
FF8 is good in a lot of ways but really bad in others, and you can definitely see here some of the problems that would plague the later FF's come into full bloom here, namely the visuals taking a front seat and everything else being put on the back burner. Compared to the more epic and urgent quests of FF6 & 7, FF8 is a slower, more character-focused drama. Which would be interesting except that it isn't done particularly well. While I feel like FF8 has a really amazing setting and one of best villains (Sorceress Edea pre-Disc 3 is easily the best villain in the Final Fantasy canon, despite your philistine opinion on the matter) a lot of this game doesn't work. While its possible to gain some understanding and appreciation for the characters and story over multiple playthroughs of the game, the story completely falls apart by the third act and its easy to see why people are turned off by this title. One bright spot though, this game has my favorite soundtrack of any of the FF games.
FF9 went back to its roots and tried to have fun again after the drama of FF8. The setting is delightfully nostalgic and this entry actually has some of the best characters in the series. Vivi and Steiner are both spectacular characters, so far above any of the characters that came before them that its honestly kind of stunning. If you thought you hated FF9 because of its dumb characters, try ignoring Zidane in favor of these two. You might be surprised. The problem with this game is it's sooooo damn slow to actually play.
FF10 is hard for me to talk about. I thought it was an absolutely stellar game in every respect until the last two hours or so when it all fell apart. Visually and mechanically though, I think this game holds up alright. The voice acting can be pretty grating at times, and considering Metal Gear solid pre-dates this game significantly and yet with much better voice acting makes it hard to excuse this problem, but I don't think it's that bad. One of the better FFs in my opinion.
I played FF12 for three hours, put it down, and haven't touched an FF game since.
The first SNES FF entry, FF4 was one of the first RPGs to tell a cohesive, character-driven story from beginning to end, while incorporating all classical elements of the early FF games; its job system, magic, airships, etc. Set across a mind-blowing three worlds and with a fantastic soundtrack, it really set the stage for what Final Fantasy was going to become. Its only real drawbacks, in my opinion, was the way it stuck to some of the older, outdated mechanics of older games, such as the awful inventory management and the fact that despite having nearly a dozen playable characters, you stick with the same 5 for most of the game. Its various remakes would address these issues with varying degrees of success.
FF5 was next and while it didn't really try to break any new ground technologically, its memorable adaptation of the job system created a game experience that was surprisingly deep and complex and a lot of fun. The game also experimented with the multiple worlds idea brought about by FF4 and had these worlds interact in interesting ways, and the game's final act is a menagerie of optional content with little purpose other than to explore, have fun, and get stronger. The game's only drawback is its rather weak and forgettable narrative and characters. If you need to get drawn into the game world and its story to want to play a game, this one might lose some of its appeal.
Final Fantasy 6 combined everything they had learned from 4 & 5, combined with a massive step forward visually to create the game that would change the modern RPG permanently. The character-driven drama of 4 combined with the strategic depth of 5, combined with some outrageously good visuals for its time, memorable characters and one of the best soundtracks, Final Fantasy 6 brought roleplaying games to the mainstream and made the big budget RPG that would be pioneered by 7 possible. Almost every RPG that has come out since has stolen so liberally from FF6 that it's little wonder that people who grew up playing the games that came after it don't see anything special about it. It's the Citizen Kane of the modern RPG.
But if FF6 was Citizen Kane then FF7 was RPG's The Godfather. Everything from FF6 was taken and expanded on into a scope so huge and visually stunning that this game still has a rabid fanbase today. Sure, its graphics look dated but you can see a lot of soul in this game. In my opinion one of the best parts of FF7 is how much of it is more or less a black comedy. FF7 is a very silly game, which almost nobody remembers anymore. Its a game that remembered to be a game and have fun with itself. Its only drawback is its fairly abyssal translation that makes it really hard to enjoy the game as an adult, in my opinion.
FF8 is good in a lot of ways but really bad in others, and you can definitely see here some of the problems that would plague the later FF's come into full bloom here, namely the visuals taking a front seat and everything else being put on the back burner. Compared to the more epic and urgent quests of FF6 & 7, FF8 is a slower, more character-focused drama. Which would be interesting except that it isn't done particularly well. While I feel like FF8 has a really amazing setting and one of best villains (Sorceress Edea pre-Disc 3 is easily the best villain in the Final Fantasy canon, despite your philistine opinion on the matter) a lot of this game doesn't work. While its possible to gain some understanding and appreciation for the characters and story over multiple playthroughs of the game, the story completely falls apart by the third act and its easy to see why people are turned off by this title. One bright spot though, this game has my favorite soundtrack of any of the FF games.
FF9 went back to its roots and tried to have fun again after the drama of FF8. The setting is delightfully nostalgic and this entry actually has some of the best characters in the series. Vivi and Steiner are both spectacular characters, so far above any of the characters that came before them that its honestly kind of stunning. If you thought you hated FF9 because of its dumb characters, try ignoring Zidane in favor of these two. You might be surprised. The problem with this game is it's sooooo damn slow to actually play.
FF10 is hard for me to talk about. I thought it was an absolutely stellar game in every respect until the last two hours or so when it all fell apart. Visually and mechanically though, I think this game holds up alright. The voice acting can be pretty grating at times, and considering Metal Gear solid pre-dates this game significantly and yet with much better voice acting makes it hard to excuse this problem, but I don't think it's that bad. One of the better FFs in my opinion.
I played FF12 for three hours, put it down, and haven't touched an FF game since.
author=Solitayre
The original Final Fantasy more or less invented the modern RPG, Final Fantasy II and III would see Square tweaking and playing with the original game's formula a little bit while experimenting with storytelling methods, but it's not until FF4 that you really see them step up their game in a big way.
The first SNES FF entry, FF4 was one of the first RPGs to tell a cohesive, character-driven story from beginning to end, while incorporating all classical elements of the early FF games; its job system, magic, airships, etc. Set across an mindblowing three worlds and with a fantastic soundtrack, it really set the stage for what Final Fantasy was going to become. Its only real drawbacks, in my opinion, was the way it stuck to some of the older, outdated mechanics of older games, such as the awful inventory management and the fact that despite having nearly a dozen playable characters, you stick with the same 5 for most of the game. Its various remakes would address these issues with varying degrees of success.
FF5 was next and while it didn't really try to break any new ground technologically, its memorable adaptation of the job system created a game experience that was surprisingly deep and complex and a lot of fun. The game also experimented with the multiple worlds idea brought about by FF4 and had these worlds interact in interesting ways, and the game's final act is a menagerie of optional content with little purpose other than to explore, have fun, and get stronger. The game's only drawback is its rather weak and forgettable narrative and characters. If you need to get drawn into the game world and its story to want to play a game, this one might lose some of its appeal.
Final Fantasy 6 combined everything they had learned from 4 & 5, combined with a massive step forward visually to create the game that would change the modern RPG permanently. The character-driven drama of 4 combined with the strategic depth of 5, combined with some outrageously good visuals for its time, memorable characters and one of the best soundtracks, Final Fantasy 6 brought roleplaying games to the mainstream and made the big budget RPG that would be pioneered by 7 possible. Almost every RPG that has come out sense has stolen so liberally from FF6 that it's little wonder that people who grew up playing the games that came after it don't see anything special about it. It's the Citizen Kane of the modern RPG.
But if FF6 was Citizen Kane then FF7 was RPG's The Godfather. Everything from FF6 was taken and expanded on into a scope so huge and visually stunning that this game still has a rabid fanbase today. Sure, its graphics look dated but you can see a lot of soul in this game. In my opinion one of the best parts of FF7 is how much of it is more or less a black comedy. FF7 is a very silly game, which almost nobody remembers anymore. Its a game that remembered to be a game and have fun with itself. Its only drawback is its fairly abyssal translation that makes it really hard to enjoy the game as an adult, in my opinion.
FF8 is good in a lot of ways but really bad in others, and you can definitely see here some of the problems that would plague the later FF's come into full bloom here, namely the visuals taking a front seat and everything else being put on the back burner. Compared to them ore epic and urgent quests of FF6 & 7, FF8 is a slower, more character-focused drama. While I feel like FF8 has a really amazing setting and one of best villains (Sorceress Edea pre-Disc 3 is easily the best villain in the Final Fantasy canon, despite your philistine opinion on the matter) a lot of this game doesn't work. While its possible to gain some understanding and appreciation for the characters and story over multiple playthroughs of the game, the story completely falls apart by the third act and its easy to see why people are turned off by this title. One bright spot though, is this game has my favorite soundtrack of any of the FF games.
FF9 went back to its roots and tried to have fun again after the drama of FF8. The setting is delightfully nostalgic and this entry actually has some of the best characters in the series. Vivi and Steiner are both spectacular characters, so far above any of the characters that came before them that its honestly kind of stunning. If you thought you hated FF9 because of its dumb characters, try ignoring Zidane in favor of these two. You might be surprised. The problem with this game is it's sooooo damn slow to actually play.
FF10 is hard for me to talk about. I thought it was an absolutely stellar game in every respect until the last two hours or so when it all fell apart. Visually and mechanically though, I think this game holds up alright. The voice acting can be pretty grating at times, and considering Metal Gear solid pre-dates this game significantly and yet with much better voice acting makes it hard to excuse this problem, but I don't think it's that bad. One of the better FFs in my opinion.
I played FF12 for three hours, put it down, and haven't touched an FF game since.
Just wanna say that Dragon Quest was the father of the modern RPG. If you judge based on the first 5 titles Final fantasy couldn't hold a candle to DQ. DQ 1 didnt have much story but DQ 2 had one though a simple one. You actually have to find your partners and it was an important step in the developement of rpgs. I'd say DQ 4 which came before FF 3 was the first RPG to hold a cohesive story line. Obviously the characters were less developed as it was an NES RPG but all the characters had their own motives for joining you and even the villain had his own back story and motive that wasn't just arrgh I wanna take over the world! Also I feel that FF 4 and FF 5 while great games weren't up to par with DQ 5 and its more mature and unique storyline that revolved around family. DQ 6 was good based on what I've played but its considered a black sheep while FF 6 was considered its series magnum opus. As I recall though DQ 6 was certainly prettier than FF 6.
Sorry had to say that lol.
author=Jeroen_Sol
While I do believe FF6's soundtrack is absolutely fantastic, (the opera and final battle that completely retells Kefka's story through its music being prime examples) I do not agree that the opinion of the many and the opinions of experts can be considered fact and above scrutiny. They are still opinions and will remain opinions. I'm pretty glad the fact 'women are worth less than men' wasn't above scrutiny.
However, calling everyone elitist but then saying 'I'm an avid music fan I know what I'm talking about' and that professional music critics are tools seems extremely hypocritical.
I didn't mean to say I'm an avid music fan to say my opinion was fact or more worthwhile but to say I know what I'm talking about and I'm not some musically ignorant dope. Generally music critics are bad have you ever heard of Robert Christgau?
Yeah, I agree with TagoMago, to say that DQ 4 was a pretty cohesive character driven story, and pretty much the first one where the villain actually has a motive beyond "nihilistic want to destroy existence just because".
(I was trying to think of the first villain from FF that wasn't just some nihilistic godlike entity bent on destroying reality, but came up short. Kefka is kinda sorta the first, but he turns into one in the end. FFXII maybe?)
(I was trying to think of the first villain from FF that wasn't just some nihilistic godlike entity bent on destroying reality, but came up short. Kefka is kinda sorta the first, but he turns into one in the end. FFXII maybe?)
Well, there's X-2... and Mystic Quest, I think?
I wouldn't say DQ6 was prettier than FF6, per se. It was brighter, yes, and the setting was a lot more light-hearted, but FF6 had a lot of very pretty visuals. The opera for one. Some of the towns and cave dungeons were very intricate and pretty to look at.
DQ6 was a great game but it was a very different game to FF6 in both tone and tale. It gets to show off bright chirpy images because of this, while the story for FF6 demands a certain levity, even in times of whimsy.
(Personally, I think Terranigma has them both beat by a long shot. Some of the imagery in that game is just stunning, especially for a SNES title. Pity it came so late into the life of the SNES - it would have been a lot more well-known if it had been released a bit earlier.)
I wouldn't say DQ6 was prettier than FF6, per se. It was brighter, yes, and the setting was a lot more light-hearted, but FF6 had a lot of very pretty visuals. The opera for one. Some of the towns and cave dungeons were very intricate and pretty to look at.
DQ6 was a great game but it was a very different game to FF6 in both tone and tale. It gets to show off bright chirpy images because of this, while the story for FF6 demands a certain levity, even in times of whimsy.
(Personally, I think Terranigma has them both beat by a long shot. Some of the imagery in that game is just stunning, especially for a SNES title. Pity it came so late into the life of the SNES - it would have been a lot more well-known if it had been released a bit earlier.)
author=Liberty
Well, there's X-2... and Mystic Quest, I think?
I wouldn't say DQ6 was prettier than FF6, per se. It was brighter, yes, and the setting was a lot more light-hearted, but FF6 had a lot of very pretty visuals. The opera for one. Some of the towns and cave dungeons were very intricate and pretty to look at.
DQ6 was a great game but it was a very different game to FF6 in both tone and tale. It gets to show off bright chirpy images because of this, while the story for FF6 demands a certain levity, even in times of whimsy.
(Personally, I think Terranigma has them both beat by a long shot. Some of the imagery in that game is just stunning, especially for a SNES title. Pity it came so late into the life of the SNES - it would have been a lot more well-known if it had been released a bit earlier.)
Its been a while and I never finished the game because I got pissed at some of the text not being translated but I just recalled the towns and envirements being more detailed and lush.
author=kentona
Yeah, I agree with TagoMago, to say that DQ 4 was a pretty cohesive character driven story, and pretty much the first one where the villain actually has a motive beyond "nihilistic want to destroy existence just because".
(I was trying to think of the first villain from FF that wasn't just some nihilistic godlike entity bent on destroying reality, but came up short. Kefka is kinda sorta the first, but he turns into one in the end. FFXII maybe?)
Kefka deserves credit in that he participated a lot in the game and you really got to know him while Psaro though having a great back story and motive other than just wanting to destroy the world was only seen for a small amount. I still consider him one of my favorite villains ever though and I like how his final form was a result of a minions betrayal.
This is why it pisses me off every time someone says DQ was never story oriented like FF. DQ 4 had a solid story before FF and IMO DQ 5 had a better story than any FF.
I... wouldn't go that far, but the story of DQ5 was very good. Definitely a high-point of the series. (I like 7 a bit better, but that's just me.)
And you are right- some of the towns were quite pretty in DQ6. I remember drooling a little the first time you stepped outside of your house and that sunbeam light affect occured. I even reset the game just so I could see it again, it was very pretty. It's a pity they didn't do more things like that, though. After a while there was a lot of graphical overlap. Some areas were quite pretty but they tended to reuse tiles a lot in the game and towns ended up looking very similar, unfortunately.
FF6 didn't do that often and in the case that they did reuse graphical assets, they used them differently and set out the towns in varied ways, houses being varied in their builds and even the streets looking different. (That said, I'm talking outside. Inners were a bit bland and repetitive at times, especially the cave inners - though to be fair, the cave tiles were intricate enough that they didn't get boring.)
And you are right- some of the towns were quite pretty in DQ6. I remember drooling a little the first time you stepped outside of your house and that sunbeam light affect occured. I even reset the game just so I could see it again, it was very pretty. It's a pity they didn't do more things like that, though. After a while there was a lot of graphical overlap. Some areas were quite pretty but they tended to reuse tiles a lot in the game and towns ended up looking very similar, unfortunately.
FF6 didn't do that often and in the case that they did reuse graphical assets, they used them differently and set out the towns in varied ways, houses being varied in their builds and even the streets looking different. (That said, I'm talking outside. Inners were a bit bland and repetitive at times, especially the cave inners - though to be fair, the cave tiles were intricate enough that they didn't get boring.)
author=Liberty
I... wouldn't go that far, but the story of DQ5 was very good. Definitely a high-point of the series. (I like 7 a bit better, but that's just me.)
And you are right- some of the towns were quite pretty in DQ6. I remember drooling a little the first time you stepped outside of your house and that sunbeam light affect occured. I even reset the game just so I could see it again, it was very pretty. It's a pity they didn't do more things like that, though. After a while there was a lot of graphical overlap. Some areas were quite pretty but they tended to reuse tiles a lot in the game and towns ended up looking very similar, unfortunately.
FF6 didn't do that often and in the case that they did reuse graphical assets, they used them differently and set out the towns in varied ways, houses being varied in their builds and even the streets looking different. (That said, I'm talking outside. Inners were a bit bland and repetitive at times, especially the cave inners - though to be fair, the cave tiles were intricate enough that they didn't get boring.)
I haven't gotten to DQ 7 yet but I know its long, detailed, and most people are split on whether its a masterpiece or a blon. I myself would still say though that I easily prefer DQ 5 story over any FF I mean IMO obviously none of the first 5 ffs had nearly as good a story. FF 6 would come close if it wasnt for the issues I have that have already been mentioned. Not gonna lie haven't played FF 7 but I've heard bad things. FF 8 of course though a very fun story had too many stupid moments and bad characters. FF 9 also haven't played but Pizza mentioned a lot of big issues FF 10 was great from what I recall though its been too long to recall most of it plus I was young and naive. I don't think we need to mention 12 and 13.
Again just my opinion.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=Jeroen_SolWell if you think this then that means you also think "women are equal to men" isn't above scrutiny and is just an opinion.
I do not agree that the opinion of the many and the opinions of experts can be considered fact and above scrutiny. They are still opinions and will remain opinions. I'm pretty glad the fact 'women are worth less than men' wasn't above scrutiny.
Which isn't wrong either. Scrutinize everthing. But argue your points with logic and data, don't just be like "well that's just, like, your opinion, man."
I do think that we can probably pretty safely state as fact that FF7 and Chrono Trigger, at least, did a ton of things which resonated with players and with the game industry to a degree that almost no other games had done since the early 8-bit era, or have done since, and that these things massively shaped the way RPGs and stories in games were made from then on because of how much everyone liked them. FF6 didn't honestly do nearly as much as either of those games to shape the future of games, though I would say it was the first video game to ever succeed at trying to tell a meaningful and gripping story through cut scenes, and that's definitely not nothing.
Liking something because it was the first to do something is almost certainly just a form of nostalgia though. Objectively, it's hard to argue that there aren't dozens of later games which surpassed FF6 in almost every aspect except music. They had to do a lot less work than FF6 did to get there, and showed a lot less genius. But if the end result is what matters, and not how good it was "at the time," then it's easy to argue that any number of derivative, generic PSX and PS2 RPGs are about as good as FF6.
author=LockeZauthor=Jeroen_SolWell if you think this then that means you also think "women are equal to men" isn't above scrutiny and is just an opinion.
I do not agree that the opinion of the many and the opinions of experts can be considered fact and above scrutiny. They are still opinions and will remain opinions. I'm pretty glad the fact 'women are worth less than men' wasn't above scrutiny.
Which isn't wrong either. Scrutinize everthing. But argue your points with logic and data, don't just be like "well that's just, like, your opinion, man."
I do think that we can probably pretty safely state as fact that FF7 and Chrono Trigger, at least, did a ton of things which resonated with players and with the game industry to a degree that almost no other games had done since the early 8-bit era, or have done since, and that these things massively shaped the way RPGs and stories in games were made from then on because of how much everyone liked them. FF6 didn't honestly do nearly as much as either of those games to shape the future of games, though I would say it was the first video game to ever succeed at trying to tell a meaningful and gripping story through cut scenes, and that's definitely not nothing.
Liking something because it was the first to do something is almost certainly just a form of nostalgia though. Objectively, it's hard to argue that there aren't dozens of later games which surpassed FF6 in almost every aspect except music. They had to do a lot less work than FF6 did to get there, and showed a lot less genius. But if the end result is what matters, and not how good it was "at the time," then it's easy to argue that any number of derivative, generic PSX and PS2 RPGs are about as good as FF6.
How was it the first to try and tell a meaningful story through cut scenes when DQ 5 did that?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
You don't need to full quote the entire post that's directly above you, man. I just quote the relevant sentence or two, so that it's clear what I'm responding to.
And yeah, what Kentona said. I would say that no games before FF6 (and very few games after FF6) have really succeeded at telling a good story through cut scenes. None of the games in the Dragon Quest series have succeeded, though I would actually say it's pretty obvious to me that none of them have actually tried. They create objectives, events and characters as needed to push the player through the gameplay, and build enough of a setting to create something to explore, but it is all there mostly just to facilitate the gameplay (especially if you consider exploration of a world to be gameplay).
I don't have evidence of this, but I suspect FF6 was the first video game to ever have the story written first, and the dungeons, towns, battles and world built to accomodate it. At the time this was, if not unprecedented, then at least practically unheard of. The story was always one of the last things a designer created after the rest of the game was nearly finished. You looked at what you had made, and figured out what kind of story would successfully explain why the player had to go to all these places. For the first 90% of the development process in FF4 for example, they didn't have much idea of the story beyond "Start as a dark knight, fight in wars, become a paladin, go underground, go to the moon." Major plot points like Rosa being kidnapped or Edward having run off with Tellah's granddaughter, were not decided until much later, after the game was nearing completion and they needed to give the player a reason to go to each dungeon, and come up with explanations for why the characters joined and left your team when they did. When you look at modern story-driven games you can tell that this is not the case - they start with a complete story they want to tell, and while they might change parts of it as they go based on the needs of the game, they craft every element of the game around it. Squaresoft pioneered and perfected this style of game design in the mid 90s, starting with FF6 and continuing with CT and FF7, and over time it became the gold standard for games that took their stories seriously.
And yeah, what Kentona said. I would say that no games before FF6 (and very few games after FF6) have really succeeded at telling a good story through cut scenes. None of the games in the Dragon Quest series have succeeded, though I would actually say it's pretty obvious to me that none of them have actually tried. They create objectives, events and characters as needed to push the player through the gameplay, and build enough of a setting to create something to explore, but it is all there mostly just to facilitate the gameplay (especially if you consider exploration of a world to be gameplay).
I don't have evidence of this, but I suspect FF6 was the first video game to ever have the story written first, and the dungeons, towns, battles and world built to accomodate it. At the time this was, if not unprecedented, then at least practically unheard of. The story was always one of the last things a designer created after the rest of the game was nearly finished. You looked at what you had made, and figured out what kind of story would successfully explain why the player had to go to all these places. For the first 90% of the development process in FF4 for example, they didn't have much idea of the story beyond "Start as a dark knight, fight in wars, become a paladin, go underground, go to the moon." Major plot points like Rosa being kidnapped or Edward having run off with Tellah's granddaughter, were not decided until much later, after the game was nearing completion and they needed to give the player a reason to go to each dungeon, and come up with explanations for why the characters joined and left your team when they did. When you look at modern story-driven games you can tell that this is not the case - they start with a complete story they want to tell, and while they might change parts of it as they go based on the needs of the game, they craft every element of the game around it. Squaresoft pioneered and perfected this style of game design in the mid 90s, starting with FF6 and continuing with CT and FF7, and over time it became the gold standard for games that took their stories seriously.
author=Liberty
Yeah, but they're not SNES. Different systems, mate. The SNES had issues with actual voice bytes and that's why, instead of actually using a human voice, they went with the pseudo voices for the opera and Kefka's laugh.
It's like comparing the capabilities of 95 to Ace. There are some things that 95 just cannot do. Well, more like XP to Ace. XP is capable of being graphically superior due to the mapping system, but it falls short of every other aspect of the other engine, unless you want to fudge things to try to get them to pseudo work. That's the SNES vs NES/SEGA/etc. Graphically it was capable of a lot, and sure, the sound was very good, but it had issues with human voice bytes. Especially with the engine that Squeenix was using in those days.
All three systems can play back a digitized waveform, that's how voices (and other sounds that aren't a transformation of an instrument sample) are handled. It isn't a hardware limitation of the SPC-700. The SNES can even handle streaming near CD quality music. There's other real limitations (production cost, desire, storage issues, driving Woolsey to suicide if he had to localize that too, sound engine, etc.) but the SPC-700 is a champ.
Also sorry Isieri for not getting back to you sooner but I couldn't remember the name of what I consider to be the most proficient use of the SPC-700: Tori. Aquatic Ambiance just sounds so fucking good. Demon's Crest itself is a hit or miss soundtrack. I like the instruments that give it a distinctive gothic(?) sound but some tracks don't sound good with it at all. Hell of Civil War is alright, my favorite from that game is Palace of Decadence.
While this topic now has some pretty decent discussion, almost the entire first four pages of this topic were a new guy getting the brakes beat off of him because he doesn't like a popular game.
I expected better from you guys, seriously.
I expected better from you guys, seriously.
author=kentona
He said it was the first one to really succeed at it.
DQ 5 did it much better IMO. I actually cried during DQ 5 while that suicide in FF 6 did nothing for me.
author=Feldschlacht IV
While this topic now has some pretty decent discussion, almost the entire first four pages of this topic were a new guy getting the brakes beat off of him because he doesn't like a popular game.
I expected better from you guys, seriously.
Sorry man, but I legitimately thought he was trolling.
