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NOMIC: GAME THREAD

Posts

Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
THE PLAYERS

DrOctopus: 25 points, 40 Makerscore (removed from the game due to inactivity)
LockeZ: 60 points, 0 Makerscore
meustrus: 36 points, 70 Makerscore
Shinan: 35 points, 10 Makerscore
TangledLion: 34 points, 0 Makerscore
Trihan: 38 points, 10 Makerscore

THE RULES

Immutable Rules
101. All players (a player being defined as "a forum member who expressed an interest in joining the game prior to the proper game thread being created", and taking effect only at the creation of that thread) must always abide by all the rules then in effect, in the form in which they are then in effect. The rules in the Initial Set are in effect whenever a game begins. The Initial Set consists of Rules 101-116 (immutable) and 201-213 (mutable).

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102. Initially rules in the 100's are immutable and rules in the 200's are mutable. Rules subsequently enacted or transmuted (that is, changed from immutable to mutable or vice versa) may be immutable or mutable regardless of their numbers, and rules in the Initial Set may be transmuted regardless of their numbers.

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103. A rule-change is any of the following: (1) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of a mutable rule; (2) the enactment, repeal, or amendment of an amendment of a mutable rule; or (3) the transmutation of an immutable rule into a mutable rule or vice versa.

(Note: This definition implies that, at least initially, all new rules are mutable; immutable rules, as long as they are immutable, may not be amended or repealed; mutable rules, as long as they are mutable, may be amended or repealed; any rule of any status may be transmuted; no rule is absolutely immune to change.)

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104. All rule-changes proposed in the proper way shall be voted on. They will be adopted if and only if they receive the required number of votes.

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105. Every player is an eligible voter. If a player has not voted 72 hours after a proposal being made, they will be considered to have voted against the proposal.

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106. All proposed rule-changes shall be written down before they are voted on. If they are adopted, they shall guide play in the form in which they were voted on.

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107. No rule-change may take effect earlier than the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it, even if its wording explicitly states otherwise. No rule-change may have retroactive application.

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108. Each proposed rule-change shall be given a number for reference. The numbers shall begin with 301, and each rule-change proposed in the proper way shall receive the next successive integer, whether or not the proposal is adopted.

If a rule is repealed and reenacted, it receives the number of the proposal to reenact it. If a rule is amended or transmuted, it receives the number of the proposal to amend or transmute it. If an amendment is amended or repealed, the entire rule of which it is a part receives the number of the proposal to amend or repeal the amendment.

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109. Rule-changes that transmute immutable rules into mutable rules may be adopted if and only if the vote is unanimous among the eligible voters. Transmutation shall not be implied, but must be stated explicitly in a proposal to take effect.

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110. In a conflict between a mutable and an immutable rule, the immutable rule takes precedence and the mutable rule shall be entirely void. For the purposes of this rule a proposal to transmute an immutable rule does not "conflict" with that immutable rule.

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111. If a rule-change as proposed is unclear, ambiguous, paradoxical, or destructive of play, or if it arguably consists of two or more rule-changes compounded or is an amendment that makes no difference, or if it is otherwise of questionable value, then the other players may suggest amendments or argue against the proposal before the vote. A reasonable time must be allowed for this debate. The proponent decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.

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112. The state of affairs that constitutes winning may not be altered from achieving n points to any other state of affairs. The magnitude of n and the means of earning points may be changed, and rules that establish a winner when play cannot continue may be enacted and (while they are mutable) be amended or repealed.

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113. A player always has the option to forfeit the game rather than continue to play or incur a game penalty. No penalty worse than losing, in the judgment of the player to incur it, may be imposed.

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114. There must always be at least one mutable rule. The adoption of rule-changes must never become completely impermissible.

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115. Rule-changes that affect rules needed to allow or apply rule-changes are as permissible as other rule-changes. Even rule-changes that amend or repeal their own authority are permissible. No rule-change or type of move is impermissible solely on account of the self-reference or self-application of a rule.

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116. Whatever is not prohibited or regulated by a rule is permitted and unregulated, with the sole exception of changing the rules, which is permitted only when a rule or set of rules explicitly or implicitly permits it.

117. If a player is required to post and fails to post for a week, they lose and are permanently removed from the game. If the game cannot continue as a result (for example if they were the judge in a dispute), the game master, in this case Trihan, is appointed to act in that player's stead.

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Mutable Rules
201. Players shall alternate in alphabetical order by username, taking one whole turn apiece. Turns may not be skipped or passed, and parts of turns may not be omitted. All players begin with zero points.

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202. THIS RULE HAS BEEN AMENDED BY PROPOSAL 305.

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203. THIS RULE HAS BEEN AMENDED BY PROPOSAL 302.

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204. If and when rule-changes can be adopted without unanimity, the players who vote against winning proposals shall receive 10 points each.

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205. An adopted rule-change takes full effect at the moment of the completion of the vote that adopted it.

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206. When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 10 points.

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207. Each player always has exactly one vote.

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208. The winner is the first player to achieve 200 (positive) points.

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209. At no time may there be more than 25 mutable rules.

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210. If two or more mutable rules conflict with one another, or if two or more immutable rules conflict with one another, then the rule with the lowest ordinal number takes precedence.

If at least one of the rules in conflict explicitly says of itself that it defers to another rule (or type of rule) or takes precedence over another rule (or type of rule), then such provisions shall supersede the numerical method for determining precedence.

If two or more rules claim to take precedence over one another or to defer to one another, then the numerical method again governs.

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211. If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.

When Judgment has been invoked, the next player may not begin his or her turn without the consent of a majority of the other players.

The Judge's Judgment may be overruled only by a unanimous vote of the other players taken before the next turn is begun. If a Judge's Judgment is overruled, then the player preceding the Judge in the playing order becomes the new Judge for the question, and so on, except that no player is to be Judge during his or her own turn or during the turn of a team-mate.

Unless a Judge is overruled, one Judge settles all questions arising from the game until the next turn is begun, including questions as to his or her own legitimacy and jurisdiction as Judge.

New Judges are not bound by the decisions of old Judges. New Judges may, however, settle only those questions on which the players currently disagree and that affect the completion of the turn in which Judgment was invoked. All decisions by Judges shall be in accordance with all the rules then in effect; but when the rules are silent, inconsistent, or unclear on the point at issue, then the Judge shall consider game-custom and the spirit of the game before applying other standards.

If a Judge cannot be determined, the Game Master (Trihan) will have final say in the resoution of the dispute.

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212. If the rules are changed so that further play is impossible, or if the legality of a move cannot be determined with finality, or if by the Judge's best reasoning, not overruled, a move appears equally legal and illegal, then the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner.

This rule takes precedence over every other rule determining the winner.

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302. Amendment to rule 203. A rule-change is adopted if at least three eligible voters vote in favor of it during the voting period. The voting period for a rule-change ends when all eligible voters have made their final vote.

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303. Should a rule-change result in the proposing player winning the game, either by points (assuming the maximum points able to be gained), the game being unable to continue, or any other method, the proposing player must include the word "Nomic" in the post putting the rule-change up to a vote. Should the proposing player fail to do so, or if the post has been edited from its original state, his or her turn will end immediately and the rule-change will not be adopted. The game shall not be declared won until it is confirmed that this rule has been followed.

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305. Amendment to rule 202. One turn consists of two parts in this order: (1) proposing one rule-change and having it voted on, and (2) subtracting 291 from the ordinal number of the proposal and multiplying the result by the fraction of favourable votes it received, rounded to the nearest integer. In the event the proposal is passed, this number is awarded to all advocates of the proposal in question, and double of this number is awarded to the play who suggested this proposal.

The scoring effects of this rule take effect on the exact turn of its passing.

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306
Players have a non-negative integer value called Makerscore. Makerscore may not be used, gained or lost by any means other than those explicitly permitted by the rules, and may not be sold or traded to other players. From this point on, Makerscore with a capital M will refer to the strictly Nomic-based construct called Makerscore, whereas makerscore with a small m will refer to the makerscore value on RMN.

Should this proposal pass, at the end of the turn in which it passes, the initial pool of Makerscore values will be determined by taking each player's RMN makerscore, dividing it by 100, and rounding it up to the nearest 10. Once each player has calculated their Makerscore allotment, they must nominate one OTHER player to receive their Makerscore. Should multiple players name the same other player, that player will receive the combined total of the Makerscore pools. The allotment of Makerscore must be completed before the next player can take their turn. EXAMPLE: LockeZ has an allotment of 40 Makerscore (3143 / 100 = 31 rounded up) and meustrus has 10 (30 / 100 = 0.3 rounded up). LockeZ must nominate one player other than himself to receive 40 Makerscore, and meustrus must nominate one player other than himself to receive 10. If both LockeZ and meustrus choose the same person, that person will receive 50 Makerscore.

Points and Makerscore are transferable at a rate of 5:1 (5 points -> 1 Makerscore, 5 Makerscore -> 1 point). A player wishing to transfer points to Makerscore or vice versa may only do so during their own turn in the discussion phase before voting begins for their proposal, by clearly posting their intention to transfer resources and stating the amount being lost/gained. The Game Master (Trihan) will confirm transfers at the end of each player's turn, after voting has ended.

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309
If a player officially submits a review for a game on rpgmaker.net that was created by another player (or players), and rpgmaker.net accepts the review, the player who submitted the review receives 50 Makerscore. If the review includes an official score of the game, the player(s) who made the game receive(s) 10 points.


DrOctopus is first to make a proposal. I'm not imposing a strict time limit on anything yet because there isn't one in the rules, but I think 72 hours is a fair loose limit for now. If he hasn't posted by then I'll try to move things along a bit somehow.

Happy rulemaking!
Sorry for my slow response; I've been going bonkers on a tight schedule recently. But it looks like I'm in time.

Also, Trihan, if you don't mind, does a proposition go to vote immediately, or are we allowed to air it, tidy it, and then submit it for a vote? My guess is that we have to vote on that.

At any rate, and in that mode, I propose and submit for a vote the following

301 : Judge Determination
If a Judge is needed for settling a dispute, the person to be selected as the Judge will be the player who is previous in the player order to the one currently proposing a new rule. If this Judge fails to appear and engage within a 72 hour period, then the person previous to them shall become the Judge. If they fail to act as Judge within 24 hours, the Game Master will be allowed to either act as Judge or appoint one.
I don't understand what 301 would accomplish. Are you simply trying to account for absent judges? Further, I believe that rule 111 accounts for any airing or tidying required.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
According to rule 111, we are allowed to debate the merits of a rule before it goes to vote based simply on it having "questionable value," which is another way of saying we can debate proposed rules for almost any reason.

Am I correct in my analysis that the only thing your proposed rule changes is that the title of judge goes to the next-previous person before it goes to Trihan, instead of going to Trihan immediately? But that you also shortened it from 7 days to 3?

I think 7 days is a better amount of time. More importantly, if you make this change, rule 117 will never take effect, because the 72 hour limits will activate first for both voting and judging. As a result no one will be able to ever be kicked from the game due to not showing up. I'm not a fan. If someone doesn't post for a week we need a way to get rid of them, because they count as a "no" on every vote.
Yeah, you're both right. Sorry, I did a bad job digesting the rules because I read it in a quick spurt.

How to proceed?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
The proponent [of the proposed rule] decides the final form in which the proposal is to be voted on and, unless the Judge has been asked to do so, also decides the time to end debate and vote.
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
To answer your question Doc, you can amend your proposal based on discussion before submitting it in its final form for voting.

As it's written right now, I'm with LockeZ in thinking 301 would actually be detrimental to the game, so I'm not a fan.
Thanks guys,

I gave a better read to everything since I'm not at work right now. Not only do those two address this, but so does rule 211. So effectively this was only the time constraint here, and, I agree, pitifully poor.

If I can change focus, and stop me if need be, I'll look at elaborating rule 201. Specifically, I'm looking at the concept of our points. Currently we all have zero points, and our scores can increase or decrease. This implies room for negative scores, but doesn't require it. Hence, this new (unrelated) proposition

301: Negative Scores
Should a player have points deducted from their score, and the amount of the deduction is greater than the current score, said player's score will become negative in value.

The Version of rule 301 on negative scores seems like a irritating nuisance... I would not vote for such a rule should it be put upon the table, since anyone who gets a proposal defeated loses 10 points, if a player's first proposal is defeated then he will practically start with negative score.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
To be clear, currently there's nothing in the rules saying we can't get negative points. So we already can. If the vote for this rule fails, you will get negative points as a result. What the rule does is simply a clarification; in other words, it prevents future rules from disallowing negative points until this rule is revoked or revised.

I have no objections. Feel free to move on to the voting stage whenever you desire.
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
LockeZ has a point in that this is already something that's stipulated by the rules but it's nice to have a cast-iron indication that needs to be amended or repealed before we can actively change how it works. I'm okay with this.
For my own clarification, how does Rule 203 apply here. I mentioned this in light of rule 201, but did not seek to amend or change it. Will this vote require unanimity or a simple majority?
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
203 doesn't count because you're not amending an existing rule; you're proposing a new rule that happens to clarify one of the other ones. You only need majority.
Then, to stop dragging my feet, I'm submitting this to a vote:

301: Negative Scores
Should a player have points deducted from their score, and the amount of the deduction is greater than the current score, said player's score will become negative in value.
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
Trihan votes yea!
I vote Nay, I hold to my convictions even if I can't change your minds.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Trihan
"It's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly...timey wimey...stuff."
3359
Huh, didn't see that one coming.
I saw it coming, but I figured I would gamble. I was laughing a little bit earlier because of this. I could see myself hitting the negatives with this failing, then LockeZ getting a rule limiting the bottom out to zero points to pass, leaving me as the only person to achieve negative points in the game.

Any rate, I guess it goes without being said since I proposed it, but I vote Yae!