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[MAFIA] PRISONER'S DILEMMA. GAME OVER
Posts
oddRABBIT
View playlists
CloseOkay, let's see. So far, I think we're just waiting to see what happens? Everyone seems to be just guessing based on a few things that don't seem very substantial. So, a typical day 1 in mafia.
Liberty does usually call for a no-lynch on Day 1, but I do think it's unhealthy behavior overall.
While I can't say I have any scumreads or anything, I do think that this choice for a lynch is probably not that great an idea? I probably phrased that wrong. What I mean is, that seems to be PA's normal playstyle, based solely on my experience with how they played as Merlin like two games ago (They like immediately roleclaimed). So, I can't really say that PA's been acting weird at all, but I don't know how PA acts as scum, so....
Anyways, I don't really know what else to say.
Liberty does usually call for a no-lynch on Day 1, but I do think it's unhealthy behavior overall.
author=Liberty
I'm gonna throw down my vote on...
PlatinumAshes
because he's being needlessly confusing with some of the stuff he's throwing around. Sure, first day isn't as serious, but I feel like he's playing scum pretending to be town pretending to be dumb town, if that makes sense (what with the whole "everyone claim~~~~" crap) and also because his avatar is repulsive to me for some weird reason.
While I can't say I have any scumreads or anything, I do think that this choice for a lynch is probably not that great an idea? I probably phrased that wrong. What I mean is, that seems to be PA's normal playstyle, based solely on my experience with how they played as Merlin like two games ago (They like immediately roleclaimed). So, I can't really say that PA's been acting weird at all, but I don't know how PA acts as scum, so....
Anyways, I don't really know what else to say.
ivoryjones
75
author=Liberty
and also because his avatar is repulsive to me for some weird reason.
LOL seeing his avatar everytime reminds on how and why the fuck he's dating Grimes out of all people
author=Liberty
I'm gonna throw down my vote on...
#lynch PlatinumAshes
because he's being needlessly confusing with some of the stuff he's throwing around. Sure, first day isn't as serious, but I feel like he's playing scum pretending to be town pretending to be dumb town, if that makes sense (what with the whole "everyone claim~~~~" crap)
Yeah, like what cave does every single time on D1 except sometimes, sometimes, you'll actually think that he was serious for a second. Now compared to PA's earlier stunt, his however was just poorly executed because he chose the most obvious impossible thing to "bait" people on. I don't believe we'll actually have all NV. I also believe piano's claim on being vanilla because it matches with his character and previous play style. Also there's a load of new players and obviously some of them would think being vanilla would be "easier" to play. Will probably switch on him but wanna hear more from Fomar for now.
PlatinumAshes
I am now certain that you are not scum and are just town trying to play scum as hard as possible.
0
@Liberty My plan was to fake claim hated together with all of the townies among you.
I needed at least one or two of you to join, and them all the other non-hated townies would conclude that it must be a ruse on town's part.
I think this was pretty obvious, but you people don't like that sort of play.
The idea was to
1) Force scum to also claim hated, and catch them out.
2) confuse scum into thinking we're all hated. They have no way of knowing right now.
3) attract people's attention, which I like since it makes them easier to read to me.
4) make day 1 less painfully boring.
I needed at least one or two of you to join, and them all the other non-hated townies would conclude that it must be a ruse on town's part.
I think this was pretty obvious, but you people don't like that sort of play.
The idea was to
1) Force scum to also claim hated, and catch them out.
2) confuse scum into thinking we're all hated. They have no way of knowing right now.
3) attract people's attention, which I like since it makes them easier to read to me.
4) make day 1 less painfully boring.
PlatinumAshes
I am now certain that you are not scum and are just town trying to play scum as hard as possible.
0
author=oddRABBIT
Anyways, I don't really know what else to say.
Who are your top 3 lynch targets?
PlatinumAshes
I am now certain that you are not scum and are just town trying to play scum as hard as possible.
0
author=PlatinumAshes
Who are your top 3 lynch targets?
And I would Shinan to answer this too, if he can find the time.
Or at least give me your top 1.
Uh, I don't really have any? I'm gonna stay as neutral as possible, like usual. Right now I think Liberty is a little suspicious from the lynch vote on you, but she wasn't in the game with Merlin, right? So it could be she isn't used to your playstyle, so I don't think she should get lynched just due to that?
Fomar0153
16396
author=ivoryjones
Will probably switch on him but wanna hear more from Fomar for now.
What would you like to hear about?
I do have one more question when the day phase ends, does the person with the most votes get lynched or is there a minimum needed e.g. being as we're 13, would 7 votes be needed?
PlatinumAshes
I am now certain that you are not scum and are just town trying to play scum as hard as possible.
0
author=Fomar0153author=ivoryjonesWhat would you like to hear about?
Will probably switch on him but wanna hear more from Fomar for now.
I do have one more question when the day phase ends, does the person with the most votes get lynched or is there a minimum needed e.g. being as we're 13, would 7 votes be needed?
If there is no majority vote (aka hammer vote) by the end of the day, it ends in a no-lynch.
I don't think it says so anywhere in the rules, but it's almost always like that.
demonlord5000
680
So apparently shinan thinks psy is still the turbo death miller, even though he's said otherwise. Got it.
Formar, we get plenty of time in the day phase so you don't need to feel that rushed. We'd like to see more of your thoughts rather than just popping up and agreeing to someone elses ideas. For a start, why do you agree with libby? Why would you prefer a PA vote over others?
As for me, I can go either way right now. As for my thoughts on PA, I work better off logic than schemes but given he's done that in his other games as town I can't really call that a tell. Piano has intuition on psy, and we haven't really heard anything else from psy yet so I think it's wait and see there.
The various new players I'd rather avoid to lynch, although I will admit I am tempted to lynch tale because his posts are so weird and hard to make out when he does post. Ivory is probably town as well. Came off strong against me, but also hasn't played enough to know that I talk mechanics every game. It's my way of starting conversations because I am absolutely terrible on day 1s when there's no information.
I'd be willing to vote shinan just because if he's going to be a mostly non-talker all game, we probably wont get anything useful out of him. Others would know better than me if that's gonna be the case.
Formar, we get plenty of time in the day phase so you don't need to feel that rushed. We'd like to see more of your thoughts rather than just popping up and agreeing to someone elses ideas. For a start, why do you agree with libby? Why would you prefer a PA vote over others?
As for me, I can go either way right now. As for my thoughts on PA, I work better off logic than schemes but given he's done that in his other games as town I can't really call that a tell. Piano has intuition on psy, and we haven't really heard anything else from psy yet so I think it's wait and see there.
The various new players I'd rather avoid to lynch, although I will admit I am tempted to lynch tale because his posts are so weird and hard to make out when he does post. Ivory is probably town as well. Came off strong against me, but also hasn't played enough to know that I talk mechanics every game. It's my way of starting conversations because I am absolutely terrible on day 1s when there's no information.
I'd be willing to vote shinan just because if he's going to be a mostly non-talker all game, we probably wont get anything useful out of him. Others would know better than me if that's gonna be the case.
When it comes to lurking players, I'm all for lynching Shinan, but only due to that.
I'm leaning to believe PA is town, his scheme sounds like something someone would do to fish reactions and get a read on people.
Fomar is on my radar but I can't place why, something just feels off. Might have to reread their posts and see if my feelings are justified or not. I do not like how easily they went with the PA lynch right after Libby voted to lynch PA. I also believe that Fomar is just making up the time pressure thing as an excuse, to play off of their newbieness and in order to justify their vote on PA. Reads scummy to me now that I think about it some more.
Will go with this for now #lynch Fomar
I'm not sure yet on Liberty, will have to see more of her.
Demon initially bothered me somewhat, but his explanation about talking about game mechanics sounds convincing to me, but you really gotta start working on your reading comprehension if you want to talk game rules dude, otherwise you'll always come off as someone who's half-assedly interpreting the rules in order to twist them to your own ends.
Ivory seems to be quite aggressive and I've learned from Cap that that can be a good sign, not betting on it just yet, will also have to re-read some more posts on that end to get a hold of the situation.
I'm leaning to believe PA is town, his scheme sounds like something someone would do to fish reactions and get a read on people.
Fomar is on my radar but I can't place why, something just feels off. Might have to reread their posts and see if my feelings are justified or not. I do not like how easily they went with the PA lynch right after Libby voted to lynch PA. I also believe that Fomar is just making up the time pressure thing as an excuse, to play off of their newbieness and in order to justify their vote on PA. Reads scummy to me now that I think about it some more.
Will go with this for now #lynch Fomar
I'm not sure yet on Liberty, will have to see more of her.
Demon initially bothered me somewhat, but his explanation about talking about game mechanics sounds convincing to me, but you really gotta start working on your reading comprehension if you want to talk game rules dude, otherwise you'll always come off as someone who's half-assedly interpreting the rules in order to twist them to your own ends.
Ivory seems to be quite aggressive and I've learned from Cap that that can be a good sign, not betting on it just yet, will also have to re-read some more posts on that end to get a hold of the situation.
psy_wombats
13315
@tale: I mean I'm willing to buy piano's explanation of why he used the word "mislynch" in that context - he was saying PA had opened himself up to targeting from scum. I don't think it's some unconscious slip and regardless I can't actually remember a time where someone successfully scumhunted off of wording slipups
That said, piano attacking PA after his bait thing is still a scum move. It sounded like piano believed PA was hated, and if PA actually /was/ hated then that'd mean he opted non-vanilla and had a PR. and then piano votes against him while using some "this is just a joke from another game" reasoning.
@odd: your intuition has been decent in the past but you need to at least put down a name and preferably a vote. Since you bring up the Merlin game, remember you were productive there because of this -- caught a nightkill from piano and me because your reads happened to be right. But if you play zero information game, it's impossible to be useful to town.
re: PA bait, I don't think that had any chance of being productive (aside from being not-boring) but I don't think that's a scumplay. The only benefit to scum would be if some newbie town PR actually was like the "hated cop" or something and outed themselves as non-vanilla. It's off behavior but it's not /scum/ behavior.
re: Liberty, I don't remember her playstyle as being anything than "vote nokill D1, get really aggro the moment anyone votes against her." Her reasoning for voting PA is not good. Maybe I could see a Fomar/Liberty scumteam with that massive "how to play town" post and their in-thread interactions being performative.
re: Shinan, I remember him having some correct opinions in the past but he should never be allowed to live to endgame.
Other people to murder: where on earth did Ozzy go?
That said, piano attacking PA after his bait thing is still a scum move. It sounded like piano believed PA was hated, and if PA actually /was/ hated then that'd mean he opted non-vanilla and had a PR. and then piano votes against him while using some "this is just a joke from another game" reasoning.
@odd: your intuition has been decent in the past but you need to at least put down a name and preferably a vote. Since you bring up the Merlin game, remember you were productive there because of this -- caught a nightkill from piano and me because your reads happened to be right. But if you play zero information game, it's impossible to be useful to town.
re: PA bait, I don't think that had any chance of being productive (aside from being not-boring) but I don't think that's a scumplay. The only benefit to scum would be if some newbie town PR actually was like the "hated cop" or something and outed themselves as non-vanilla. It's off behavior but it's not /scum/ behavior.
re: Liberty, I don't remember her playstyle as being anything than "vote nokill D1, get really aggro the moment anyone votes against her." Her reasoning for voting PA is not good. Maybe I could see a Fomar/Liberty scumteam with that massive "how to play town" post and their in-thread interactions being performative.
re: Shinan, I remember him having some correct opinions in the past but he should never be allowed to live to endgame.
Other people to murder: where on earth did Ozzy go?
AlaskanEmily
561
I kind of have a hard time believing PA about his 'plan'. That seems like SUCH a stretch, to expect multiple people to figure that, trust he isn't scum baiting them, and then know to play along.
I also don't feel like this would be the time to even come clean, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me except if he is trolling for more information.
#lynch PlatinumAshes
Maybe we just have extremely different playstyles, but that has a serious smell to me.
I also don't feel great about Fomar, posting very rarely and then coming back after being accused to talk about rules feels off to me.
I also don't feel like this would be the time to even come clean, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me except if he is trolling for more information.
#lynch PlatinumAshes
Maybe we just have extremely different playstyles, but that has a serious smell to me.
I also don't feel great about Fomar, posting very rarely and then coming back after being accused to talk about rules feels off to me.
psy_wombats
13315
ninja'd by Ozzy. I don't see excuse to chase him unfortunately.
I sort of agree that Fomar's newbishness comes off as more performative than I'd expect but still shouldn't kill new players d1.
I sort of agree that Fomar's newbishness comes off as more performative than I'd expect but still shouldn't kill new players d1.
AlaskanEmily
561
author=psy_wombats
re: Liberty, I don't remember her playstyle as being anything than "vote nokill D1, get really aggro the moment anyone votes against her." Her reasoning for voting PA is not good. Maybe I could see a Fomar/Liberty scumteam with that massive "how to play town" post and their in-thread interactions being performative.
You believe he is telling the truth? I just find that such a strange play. It feels so much more plausible to me that he is scum, he claimed a role known to exist in this game hoping to fish for more roles and banking on at least some negative roles existing, and then it didn't work.
How could he expect that false claiming wouldn't be suspicious? That seems like it could only be confusing for town, and I have such a hard time imagining it ever even working.
demonlord5000
680
I think it's a case of vastly different playstyles with PA, because he played extremely risky in that merlin game too while being merlin.
Psy makes some interesting points. I'm not sure I agree on piano though. It did feel like they were just going after each other cause of that other game, but I should reread and see if I still have that same impression now.
As for my earlier arguments, tt's hard to interpret that power roles will be balanced on the number of power roles in any other way than they would be similarly balanced, but no point going down that road again. I don't really misunderstand rules in other games, so I don't know if its just a case of me overthinking them because of the nature of mafia or what. It's very possible I'm just overthinking every game and that's what I need to fix in my mafia play.
Psy makes some interesting points. I'm not sure I agree on piano though. It did feel like they were just going after each other cause of that other game, but I should reread and see if I still have that same impression now.
As for my earlier arguments, tt's hard to interpret that power roles will be balanced on the number of power roles in any other way than they would be similarly balanced, but no point going down that road again. I don't really misunderstand rules in other games, so I don't know if its just a case of me overthinking them because of the nature of mafia or what. It's very possible I'm just overthinking every game and that's what I need to fix in my mafia play.
demonlord5000
680
Looking back, it did have that feel, but worth noting that piano kept his vote on PA even after admitting it made sense, more posts happened, then eventually just cancelled while saying he should if hes going to genuinely stick up for it.
I do think it's a bit strange to keep the vote there when admitting the first time that not voting for him made sense, so it's a matter of do we believe it was just a heated debate based on a different game or not.
I do think it's a bit strange to keep the vote there when admitting the first time that not voting for him made sense, so it's a matter of do we believe it was just a heated debate based on a different game or not.
psy_wombats
13315
@AE: I agree it had no chance of working as stated but I don't think it had much chance of outing town PRs for scum either, and exposes scum-PA to a lot of risk based on just a lynch-all-liars basis. The guy pulled off a big D1 play the last game he was in as well. I'm sort of considering now that PA would assume he'd be protected from suspicion on d1 because of that reputation, but that would apply to both town-PA and scum-PA.
@DL: my complaint is that after PA pulls a stunt that would imply he's non-vanilla, piano found an excuse to vote for him without mentioning that and instead passed it off as a feudvote or something like PA did to him. The cancellation I assume is because he realized the vote was bad.
@DL: my complaint is that after PA pulls a stunt that would imply he's non-vanilla, piano found an excuse to vote for him without mentioning that and instead passed it off as a feudvote or something like PA did to him. The cancellation I assume is because he realized the vote was bad.
Fomar0153
16396
author=OzzyTheOne
Fomar is on my radar but I can't place why, something just feels off. Might have to reread their posts and see if my feelings are justified or not. I do not like how easily they went with the PA lynch right after Libby voted to lynch PA. I also believe that Fomar is just making up the time pressure thing as an excuse, to play off of their newbieness and in order to justify their vote on PA. Reads scummy to me now that I think about it some more.
Will go with this for now #lynch Fomar
PlatinumAshes is the player who has been the most suspect, practically everyone called him out on this, I can re-list the reasons everyone else stated if you would like, but surfice to say I don't follow his reasoning and no one else has really done anything that seems really suspicious to me. It really seems like there is basically nothing but paranoia and guessing on this first day phase.
Fomar0153
16396
Decided to do some maths and wrote a quick mafia simulator.
My results were:
Lynching on day 1
town:20861
scum:79139
days:5.1697
Not Lynching on day 1
town:34668
scum:65332
days:6.27515
So while I think PlatinumAshes is very dodgy the maths says we have a better chance of winning with no lynch. So:
#Cancel
If anyone wants to check my code:
My results were:
Lynching on day 1
town:20861
scum:79139
days:5.1697
Not Lynching on day 1
town:34668
scum:65332
days:6.27515
So while I think PlatinumAshes is very dodgy the maths says we have a better chance of winning with no lynch. So:
#Cancel
If anyone wants to check my code:
town = 10 scum = 3 town_wins = 0 scum_wins = 0 day1_scum = 0 no_lynch = true days = [] 100000.times do tmp_town = town tmp_scum = scum day = 1 while (true) unless day == 1 && no_lynch if rand(tmp_scum + tmp_town) < tmp_scum tmp_scum -= 1 else tmp_town -= 1 end end if tmp_scum == 0 town_wins += 1 days.push(day) break end if tmp_scum > 0 tmp_town -= 1 end if tmp_scum > tmp_town scum_wins += 1 days.push(day) break end day += 1 end end no_lynch ? (print "Not Lynching on day 1\n") : (print "Lynching on day 1\n") print "town:" + town_wins.to_s + "\n" print "scum:" + scum_wins.to_s + "\n" print "days:" + (days.inject{ |sum, a| sum + a }.to_f / days.size).to_s
