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HOW TOLERANT ARE YOU TO LEGITIMATELY DIFFICULT BOSSES?
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CociCookie
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Closepost=119968
Some of the best boss fights I have ever encountered have been from Legend of Legaia and the Grandia games. These bosses can really turn things around, and yet are never TOO overbearing. And often times, grinding does not make it any better!
Have to agree with this for the Grandia bit. Not got too far in 1 yet, and can't carry on my restart of 2 (Stupid scratches on my disk) but there are a few fights in both up to now that have required me to be more strategic, especially Valmar's Eye, which took me three tries until I got the right strategy (And a lil' luck. Amazing what stun can do xD) to finish him off.
DDS1 is probably my current fave game at the moment for strategy, I'm up to Cerberus, and have got about 3/4 of the way to death and fell to his next change of tactics. He's probably the toughest boss I've thought in any game so far, and I'm still not in a 'Controller-through-screen' mood over it.
Aten
1570
post=119975
Legend of Legaia oh man, fun times.
Battle with two electric type monster in the monastery's forest (?), Battle against Songi, Battle with a mino-centaur, The swordsman on top of one city/tower thing still give me a shiver just thinking about it.
Basically there is a lot of magic grinding in that game (use it more, it gets stronger!) good idea, but there NO SKIP BUTTON (enjoy 45+ second animations per magic). Also, one time you SHOULD reset a lot just to get one of the best early magic (Kemaro) which can deal 3K damage at level 10 (pretty long guys). Honestly, without that knowledge and resetting, I don't think I would manage to beat the boss in that dungeon.
I think one of the reasons why I think it's such a BOSS game is because I didn't rely too much on the Seru, the only ones I relied on was the first one (Fire Gimard) since it was important, and the Orb/Spoon Seru, for healing, AND the best was Aluru, which pretty much vaporized enemies at Lv10. Aluru Cannon ftw!
post=119968
Some of the best boss fights I have ever encountered have been from Legend of Legaia and the Grandia games. These bosses can really turn things around, and yet are never TOO overbearing. And often times, grinding does not make it any better!
The last Last Sonji (by the G.T). still beats the crap out of me big time...
post=114788
How tolerant are you to legitimately difficult bosses?
This should be the only type of bosses in games.
post=120462post=114788This should be the only type of bosses in games.
How tolerant are you to legitimately difficult bosses?
"I can't beat this boss by pressing 'Attack' over and over again he's too hard I quit"
post=120469post=120462"I can't beat this boss by pressing 'Attack' over and over again he's too hard I quit"post=114788This should be the only type of bosses in games.
How tolerant are you to legitimately difficult bosses?
I only do that with random encounters...that is, until I realize that it doesn't work and I die. I don't do that with bosses on my first playthrough; In fact, I automatically assume a boss is going to give me a challenge when I fight it for the first time.
post=120004post=119968The last Last Sonji (by the G.T). still beats the crap out of me big time...
Some of the best boss fights I have ever encountered have been from Legend of Legaia and the Grandia games. These bosses can really turn things around, and yet are never TOO overbearing. And often times, grinding does not make it any better!
I loved everything about that game. I wish I'd gotten my ps2 early enough to try out the second one, but I haven't heard anything about it, so it was probably crap.
Yeah, another SMT vid. This was going to be TWEWY, but all of the vids suck.
*points camcorder at DS*
This fucker gets eight fucking turns. I like and dislike this fight. It starts out fantastic on the first turn. Negate debuffs! Negate buffs! Magic up * 4! Big nuke! Poison! Exciting stuff. Second round starts promising, too... until it dumps four rounds into Foul Breath. So much for the tension there. After that, the whole thing just peters off in an endless string of Mad Rush. Really, really disappointing.
Multiact has a lot of pros in terms of boss design. Acting multiple times can give a boss the control over the battle it needs to really challenge the player. A boss that casts an elemental nuke each round isn't scary. A boss that casts three elemental nukes a turn is. That same boss can restore some of its HP, nuke someone, and then guard. Or charge up, nuke someone, and debuff the party's attack. See the difference?
*points camcorder at DS*
This fucker gets eight fucking turns. I like and dislike this fight. It starts out fantastic on the first turn. Negate debuffs! Negate buffs! Magic up * 4! Big nuke! Poison! Exciting stuff. Second round starts promising, too... until it dumps four rounds into Foul Breath. So much for the tension there. After that, the whole thing just peters off in an endless string of Mad Rush. Really, really disappointing.
Multiact has a lot of pros in terms of boss design. Acting multiple times can give a boss the control over the battle it needs to really challenge the player. A boss that casts an elemental nuke each round isn't scary. A boss that casts three elemental nukes a turn is. That same boss can restore some of its HP, nuke someone, and then guard. Or charge up, nuke someone, and debuff the party's attack. See the difference?
post=120002
I think one of the reasons why I think it's such a BOSS game is because I didn't rely too much on the Seru, the only ones I relied on was the first one (Fire Gimard) since it was important, and the Orb/Spoon Seru, for healing, AND the best was Aluru, which pretty much vaporized enemies at Lv10. Aluru Cannon ftw!
How about getting your ass handed to you by the Berserker (that plant thing) over and over again? Good times.
One thing I like about Legaia is that boss battles make you genuinely afraid. Boss battles in that game are less about "Oh gee willikers I wonder what strategy will allow me to have a great round of fisticuffs with this adversary" and more "oh jesus no"
Aten
1570
Yes. AFRAID. That is the feeling Legaia bosses brought with them. Remember Jette? Or perhaps Ratayu? (The dude who consumed women). Yeah. And man, the most awesome yet terrifying at the same time, The 3 separate fights you do with the 3 siblings.
It wasn't. You're missing out. I really disliked the battle music (so different from the first), but the BATTLE SYSTEM was spot-on Legaia goodness. (Esp when you unlock the coliseum hehe)
I wish I'd gotten my ps2 early enough to try out the second one, but I haven't heard anything about it, so it was probably crap.
It wasn't. You're missing out. I really disliked the battle music (so different from the first), but the BATTLE SYSTEM was spot-on Legaia goodness. (Esp when you unlock the coliseum hehe)
Legitimate boss fights, eh? Just let me grab my Phoenix Feather and I'll be ready to rumble!
Seriously though, I like hard bosses okay, as long as they don't take forever to destroy. About five or six times at the most. Unless it's like the last boss. Also, depends on the game itself. Some games I'll be happy to spend a lot of time messing around with (Suikoden II - beat Luca Blight with all three teams and watched him run like a scaredy little chicken ^.^) whilst others just piss me off - <insert annoying fight that I've yet to find/remember here>.
LoL was pretty good boss-wise because, yeah, they we pretty scary. That's a good boss fight - if you're scared to lose the fight then there's something being done right.
Take Okami, for example. The spider-critter-lady boss always creeps me out, the damned owls freaked me out, the stupid fox made me want to cry and Orochi... well, let's just say he was a bit of a pain until you realised what you need to do. Helps that your battle gain is 'graded' depending on how much damage/how fast you were at killing the monsters, too. Plus, with the fox you had to beat him/it/her to the painting, as it were. Nail-biting fun.
Seriously though, I like hard bosses okay, as long as they don't take forever to destroy. About five or six times at the most. Unless it's like the last boss. Also, depends on the game itself. Some games I'll be happy to spend a lot of time messing around with (Suikoden II - beat Luca Blight with all three teams and watched him run like a scaredy little chicken ^.^) whilst others just piss me off - <insert annoying fight that I've yet to find/remember here>.
LoL was pretty good boss-wise because, yeah, they we pretty scary. That's a good boss fight - if you're scared to lose the fight then there's something being done right.
Take Okami, for example. The spider-critter-lady boss always creeps me out, the damned owls freaked me out, the stupid fox made me want to cry and Orochi... well, let's just say he was a bit of a pain until you realised what you need to do. Helps that your battle gain is 'graded' depending on how much damage/how fast you were at killing the monsters, too. Plus, with the fox you had to beat him/it/her to the painting, as it were. Nail-biting fun.
Most games with job systems tend to have difficult bosses this is what i find cool about games like that the fact is bosses can be harder or easier depending on your job key and also what party the programmers used they could have used a Monk,Knight,White Mage,Black Mage and you might be using a Blue Mage,Thief,Chemist,Red Mage a good example is a boss that casts protect on himself and youve been using a party of physical attackers for the whole game and when fighting said boss will only do half damage you could change your jobs but chances are the game your playing will make you alot weaker if you do so when i fought Neo-Exdeath i had a party of 4 Mimes which i just got they did about 1/2 damage of my normal party but i needed to use them for there ability to mime spells at no MP cost I found the fight overly hard because i hadnt been using the 'right' job key from the point where i had all the jobs i used a Summoner, Knight,Thief and Samurai and therefore had abilities for said party but if i had chosen Dragoon,Dancer,Summoner And Red Mage i would have had the Dragoons jump ability the Dancers ability to equip ribbons Bahamut(Which plain kicks ass) and Healing spells,Damaging spells along with dualcast which wouldve probably gave me a better chance of winning.
post=120481
Multiact has a lot of pros in terms of boss design. Acting multiple times can give a boss the control over the battle it needs to really challenge the player. A boss that casts an elemental nuke each round isn't scary. A boss that casts three elemental nukes a turn is. That same boss can restore some of its HP, nuke someone, and then guard. Or charge up, nuke someone, and debuff the party's attack. See the difference?
Diablocide, go. I agree with this full-heartedly.
Yeah. And man, the most awesome yet terrifying at the same time, The 3 separate fights you do with the 3 siblings.
"We're going to separate your party members, make you fight 3 bosses one on one, (and one after another), and figure out how not to die from their most powerful attack every three turns!"
Man, the best thing about that game is that it never runs out of ways to be difficult. Every other boss fight is balls to the walls hard for a different reason every time.
I love difficult boss battles. Hell, sometimes I even love boss battles where I was doing great and then ran out of MP and got overwhelmed, and the only solution is a little grinding or more clever strategy. This is in more standard RPGs like Dragon Warrior III, or even Golden Sun.
It's been a while since I've played a really good console RPG, but I specifically remember Final Fantasy X having some pretty rough fights with some tricky strategy, like the one against the flying dragon where you're controlling the ship and attacking, or... Yunalesca. ROAR. It's great because you can switch characters on the fly and you HAVE to for certain fights.
It's been a while since I've played a really good console RPG, but I specifically remember Final Fantasy X having some pretty rough fights with some tricky strategy, like the one against the flying dragon where you're controlling the ship and attacking, or... Yunalesca. ROAR. It's great because you can switch characters on the fly and you HAVE to for certain fights.
post=120488
...One thing I like about Legaia is that boss battles make you genuinely afraid. Boss battles in that game are less about "Oh gee willikers I wonder what strategy will allow me to have a great round of fisticuffs with this adversary" and more "oh jesus no"
Facing Gaza at Sol basement:
Gaza please, think about that for a second... no please don't do it! Not Neo Star Slash! No please no! NO! AAAAAAAH!
^^ Bosses are ment to e hard, they would not be bosses if they were easy XD
Skie Fortress
2394
post=120488
One thing I like about Legaia is that boss battles make you genuinely afraid. Boss battles in that game are less about "Oh gee willikers I wonder what strategy will allow me to have a great round of fisticuffs with this adversary" and more "oh jesus no"
I never played Legaia 1, but I played 2. But that's not the point.
This type of feeling is what I enjoy and want to replicate in my own work. I don't mind getting my ass kicked by a boss. I'll just run back and try again.
Nothing to me feels better than beating a boss with only one character left alive with critical HP, no items left, no MP left, and you finished the boss off with hyper ultra combo #87234 which just became available right before the boss could have taken his next turn and wiped you out with Ultima
But it's turning out to be a challenge to balance between making bosses somewhat fair and giving off the feeling of 'Oh please spare me!'. At least for me. I'll need to work at it some more to find the right formula.
Aten
1570
post=121590
I never played Legaia 1, but I played 2.
That's too bad because Legaia 2 is NOTHING like Legaia 1. There is no sense of fear or dread at boss battles. Legaia 2 falls into more of what mog said, ala
"Oh gee willikers I wonder what strategy will allow me to have a great round of fisticuffs with this adversary"
Then you do 1 variable arts and *boom*, battle over :\
Stress
50
This is why the Baldur's Gate series was so special. Grinding was an impossibility...oh, well it was replaced with reloading ten times, but still, there were fights that really tested your knowledge of the game.
Icewind Dale even more so, until you found yourself with a -12 AC, -2 THAC0 Fighter that steam rolled everything.
Legitimately tough bosses should be the rule not the exception. The entire system of random battles allowing grinding should have been an exception, yet it caught on and people seemed to embrace this wholly terrible device. The entire concept of random battles only arrived with JRPGs. You play ANY WRPG and it features all battles and enemies taking place on the map. I digress.
Icewind Dale even more so, until you found yourself with a -12 AC, -2 THAC0 Fighter that steam rolled everything.
Legitimately tough bosses should be the rule not the exception. The entire system of random battles allowing grinding should have been an exception, yet it caught on and people seemed to embrace this wholly terrible device. The entire concept of random battles only arrived with JRPGs. You play ANY WRPG and it features all battles and enemies taking place on the map. I digress.
