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BIN LADEN DEFEATED
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Cosmic_Sea
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Closeauthor=Feldschlacht IVWhen we took out Hitler did that stop genocides?Did it stop the Holocaust? Yep.
we freed the slaves did that mean an end to racial bigotry?
Did that mean an end to slavery? Yep.
When we ousted Saddam did it mean an end to oppressive dictators?
Did it mean an end to that specific oppressive dictator, therefore making someone's lives better for at least a while? Yep.
When we ousted the Taliban in Afghanistan did it restore peace and prosperity?
Did it remove 'getting fucked up by the Taliban' on the list of things to worry about every day for people living there? Yep (more or less)
When we declared "War on drugs" did it end drug abuse?
Is it helping someone, somewhere? Yep.
Sorry Cosmic, your post was pretty dumb!
not really...ya in that specific place but on a whole, in the abstract it didn't change a thing.
Slavery kept going somewhere else, a genocide happened in another country,
communism flourished where Austrian style economic theory once reigned etc etc,
that is like saying the streets of Brooklyn have become safe because you busted one heroin dealer, even though another one just moved in two blocks down the street.
In the long run things have only changed incrementally at best and stayed neutral at it's norm.
I think Doug Stanhope can shed some light on this in a way that i failed to do...
"Doug Stanhope I shot Bigfoot yesterday. I ate him and dumped the remains in the lake before I could prove it. Just take my word for it. Seriously.
5 hours ago"
priceless.
Doug Stanhope(Comedian)
"Doug Stanhope I shot Bigfoot yesterday. I ate him and dumped the remains in the lake before I could prove it. Just take my word for it. Seriously.
5 hours ago"
priceless.
Doug Stanhope(Comedian)
eplipswich
2728
author=Cosmic_Seaauthor=Feldschlacht IVnot really...ya in that specific place but on a whole, in the abstract it didn't change a thing.When we took out Hitler did that stop genocides?Did it stop the Holocaust? Yep.we freed the slaves did that mean an end to racial bigotry?
Did that mean an end to slavery? Yep.When we ousted Saddam did it mean an end to oppressive dictators?
Did it mean an end to that specific oppressive dictator, therefore making someone's lives better for at least a while? Yep.When we ousted the Taliban in Afghanistan did it restore peace and prosperity?
Did it remove 'getting fucked up by the Taliban' on the list of things to worry about every day for people living there? Yep (more or less)When we declared "War on drugs" did it end drug abuse?
Is it helping someone, somewhere? Yep.
Sorry Cosmic, your post was pretty dumb!
Slavery kept going somewhere else, a genocide happened in another country,
communism flourished where Austrian style economic theory once reigned etc etc,
that is like saying the streets of Brooklyn have become safe because you busted one heroin dealer, even though another one just moved in two blocks down the street.
In the long run things have only changed incrementally at best and stayed neutral at it's norm.
Good God indeed. The main point here is that it did end something, better than doing nothing. So you're saying
Eg 1) We shouldn't take out Hitler because it's pointless as it won't stop genocides?
Eg 2) We shouldn't oust Saddam because it's pointless as it won't stop other oppressive dictators?
Eg 3) We shouldn't oust the Taliban because it's pointless as it won't fully restore peace and prosperity?
Of course the public know they won't, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't eliminate Osama, Hitler, Saddam and the Taliban. Eliminating them won't put an end to all bad things, but they still have to be stopped regardless.
author=eplipswichauthor=Cosmic_SeaGood God indeed. The main point here is that it did end something, better than nothing. So you're sayingauthor=Feldschlacht IVnot really...ya in that specific place but on a whole, in the abstract it didn't change a thing.When we took out Hitler did that stop genocides?Did it stop the Holocaust? Yep.we freed the slaves did that mean an end to racial bigotry?
Did that mean an end to slavery? Yep.When we ousted Saddam did it mean an end to oppressive dictators?
Did it mean an end to that specific oppressive dictator, therefore making someone's lives better for at least a while? Yep.When we ousted the Taliban in Afghanistan did it restore peace and prosperity?
Did it remove 'getting fucked up by the Taliban' on the list of things to worry about every day for people living there? Yep (more or less)When we declared "War on drugs" did it end drug abuse?
Is it helping someone, somewhere? Yep.
Sorry Cosmic, your post was pretty dumb!
Slavery kept going somewhere else, a genocide happened in another country,
communism flourished where Austrian style economic theory once reigned etc etc,
that is like saying the streets of Brooklyn have become safe because you busted one heroin dealer, even though another one just moved in two blocks down the street.
In the long run things have only changed incrementally at best and stayed neutral at it's norm.
Eg 1) We shouldn't kill Hitler because it's pointless as it won't stop genocides?
Eg 2) We shouldn't oust Saddam because it's pointless as it won't stop other oppressive dictators?
Eg 3) We shouldn't oust the Taliban because it's pointless as it won't fully restore peace and prosperity?
Of course the public know they won't, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't eliminate Osama, Hitler, Saddam and the Taliban. They won't put an end to all bad things, but they still have to be stopped regardless.
where did i say we shouldn't do anything?
all i am saying is in the long run it meant little, until you solve as to why people want to murder mass numbers of a specific group of other people, how they got into power
as well as why this keeps coming up.
Blow-back is a good explanation as to why.
I never said anything about not doing anything >_<
Of course if someones goes sociopath you stop them.
But after so long of other nuts taking his place about as soon as you can knock them down you begin to wonder "Is the best option? Is there something else i can do that can nip them at the bud so i am not stuck in some eternal stalemate with no real end in sight?"
And i do get it. You are saying that it did mean something that he was taken out, and it does, but in the long run it means little.
somebody will replace him.
Maybe not his specific position, but ideologically he more than likely is already obsolete.
The next person who quotes that huge pile of excrement that cosmic_sea produced is going to get a warn.
The loonies have come out of the woodwork, methinks. Maybe y'all can make an IRC channel to...politely "discuss the issues".
Natook
1000
Feld, I officially love you now.
For everyone else trying to cut down the effects of Osama's death, keep this in mind:
When someone flies planes into two of your country's towers to kill thousands, it's not even possible to suggest that there is a completely right solution. A solution to make everything okay didn't exist and never will. It's easy to point out flaws when there isn't a perfect answer. This is especially true, when you are only left with the single option of retaliation (with an 88% approval rating to do so.)
However, it's preposterous for anyone to say this is anything short of a victory. This IS a victory. It may not have been a perfect victory (far from it), but we found the "bad guy." and he was executed. There will always be evil, but when good triumphs, shouldn't we celebrate instead of dreading when the next evil power arises?
For everyone else trying to cut down the effects of Osama's death, keep this in mind:
When someone flies planes into two of your country's towers to kill thousands, it's not even possible to suggest that there is a completely right solution. A solution to make everything okay didn't exist and never will. It's easy to point out flaws when there isn't a perfect answer. This is especially true, when you are only left with the single option of retaliation (with an 88% approval rating to do so.)
However, it's preposterous for anyone to say this is anything short of a victory. This IS a victory. It may not have been a perfect victory (far from it), but we found the "bad guy." and he was executed. There will always be evil, but when good triumphs, shouldn't we celebrate instead of dreading when the next evil power arises?
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Dyhalto
It's not like I'm a jury member at Osama's trial anyway.
Pretty silly to hold a trial for a man who's already been cast into the drink.
author=choauthor=Natooklol
when good triumphs
POV is everything, right? Of course right.
deboo
85
For the record, I don't think people are upset that he's dead, i think people have a problem with those that are celebrating the death. He was a horrible person and doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy, but it leaves a bitter taste celebrating something that should usually be mourned.
author=Cosmic_Sea
"Doug Stanhope I shot Bigfoot yesterday. I ate him and dumped the remains in the lake before I could prove it. Just take my word for it. Seriously.
5 hours ago"
you just compared Osama bin Laden to Bigfoot oh my God RMN oh my God
wellsy50
75
who ever killed him because it would have been an individual would have received a huge payout!!
wish i was that navy seal
wish i was that navy seal
author=Yellow Magic
you just compared Osama bin Laden to Bigfoot oh my God RMN oh my God
Welcome to the internet!
author=boobledeeboo
For the record, I don't think people are upset that he's dead, i think people have a problem with those that are celebrating the death. He was a horrible person and doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy, but it leaves a bitter taste celebrating something that should usually be mourned.
I can totally understand the natural unease that would come from masses of people celebrating a death of all things.
But he was the world's biggest piece of shit. I'm not really sure what you'd expect to happen after such a person would die.
author=boobledeeboo
For the record, I don't think people are upset that he's dead, i think people have a problem with those that are celebrating the death. He was a horrible person and doesn't deserve anyone's sympathy, but it leaves a bitter taste celebrating something that should usually be mourned.
This is pretty spot-on. I'm a, probably naive, idealist at heart and I think it's sad that we live in a world where we need celebrate the death of another human being. The whole thing is messed up pretty bad. Not because the tragedies of 9/11 (and other terrorist attacks) were in any way acceptable or forgettable, they aren't. But because people like Bin Laden make us all less faithful in the decency of human beings and make us all more hateful, intolerant and cold. Whens something as big as that happens it's a natural human response to need to make sense of something completely senseless, tensions rise, everyone's angry and needs reconciliation. It's such a messed up situation because on one hand you can't deny the loss and grief of people's lives and loved ones being taken away from them and on the other hand the more hateful we get, the more uncaring we become about other human beings. Like I said, I'm a naive idealist. I consider Bin Laden's death a victory for western morale, most definitely a lot of people will see it that way and I suppose that is beneficial... But I doubt that people who lost loved ones in terrorist attacks are really feeling any less grief now that he's dead - every day they see the unfolding repercussions of the day they lost them and it ended in just as much ugliness as it started.
Eh, idk.
