MERLANDESE'S PROFILE

author=Red_Nova
Merlandese, that solution is an interesting one, but it seems to me that it forces the main character to have some elements of their personality already defined. In your example, is the the food being too salty objective fact? Or is that just the main character's personal preference?

Yeah, in that example, the solution works specifically regarding characters that already exist as characters (think someone like Tidus in FFX). Not blank slates or mutes, but characters that already exist and yet you still want to control their dialogue options.

I do this in Placebo Love. The character has real inner truths (although those truths actually vary from player to player based on their choices, but that's a layer too complicated). You control the character and make their decisions, but there are things that are true no matter what about that character. If that character is from Sao Paulo, and a person asks "where are you from?", you then get to choose whether he tells the truth ("I am from Sao Paulo"), a half truth ("I'm not from around here.") or a full lie ("I was born here.").

You don't choose their reality, you choose how much of their reality they will reveal. And that is what branches the paths or affects others.

author=Red_Nova
If each row in the assertive column is considered the "default" choices that could lead to different branches down the dialogue tree, coloring them with passive or aggressive tones would not change the ultimate outcome, but with more immediate feedback from whoever you are talking to.

This reminds me a little of what Christina Love does in her games. Check out Ladkiller in a Bind. Options are usually categorized into things like FLIRTY or DRAMATIC or RUTHLESS. They each have different tweaks and, more importantly, not every dialogue option utilzes every single possible style. They are catered per scene. I think this gives the dialogue a nice robustness without feeling overwhelming.

author=Red_Nova
I've been playing Etrian Odyssey Nexus, and I can point to the Arcanist class and say "Do this. This is cool!"

This is something I thought of while reading all these posts: it kinda feels like the Healer/White Mage HAS been solved into a more dynamic and interesting class many times over, like this Arcanist. The issue is more that games can't help but also include this dedicated White Mage, which lessens the viability of the more interesting versions simply through its inevitability.

author=Red_Nova
To make the transition easier, maybe most healing spells could be replaced with a regen spell instead? That could free up the healer to do other things while healing is already being taken care of?

Yeah, in my never-going-to-happen spreadsheet-based dream RPG, I've basically done this, and for all the same reasons. All healing is either regen-based or happens with a delay. (All magic happens at the beginning of your next turn, instead of immediately like regular attacks do.) So the idea is that you are trying to set up periods of continued health regeneration which then frees you up to either do other stuff, or layer on more regen.

I think for a system like this, as long as you resist the urge to have a way to do a massive heal shot, it'll work in the balance. Even one immediate heal spell would create a dynamic where you optimize ways to only use that spell instead of any of the regen stuff.



But really, let's just kill two birds with one stone, eh?

MAKE YOUR THIEF CLASS THE HEALER CLASS!

I woke in a cold sweat at 4:58AM, also known as the Crazy Cat Hour. And it struck me. I know why we can't fix the thief.

THE THIEF SHOULDN'T BE IN BATTLE TO BEGIN WITH!

We're trying to train a fish to fly here. It's futile! The thief has no business in a battle queue!

The best solution is to keep the thief doing things external to battles, like pickpocketing NPCs and unlocking doors. And if you MUST put the thief in battle, they should have their own parallel asymmetric plain of activity, similar to analyzer roles in Persona 3/4/5. Lining a squirrely little thief alongside R'othgar the Berserker and expecting them to have some sort of balanced routine is nonsense.

We're all fools, and should be pitied!

I think a big part of Steal sucking is because of the relationship between battle systems and items systems in general.

Using items in most JRPGs is like a literal pocket that reaches outside the confines of the battle itself and borrows aid. The thief is a person who takes the item from in a battle an puts it outside, but for what? So you can bring it back in again. It's always going to be adding an extra step to a system of item/equipment juggling you might not love to begin with.

My fave "steal" variant ever is a really niche thing in Romancing SaGa 3 where if you counter an armed enemy, you have a chance to steal their weapon—handicapping them—immediately equip it for future use in the battle, and counter-attack with that weapon as soon as you trigger the steal. This bypasses the entire inventory loop where stolen items usually go, and that feels good.