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Generica - [RMVX..?]

I ask your pardon, Eschalt. I'm having a hard time understanding a lot of what you are saying.

I'll let Kentona and anyone else who intends to do system work decide what is and isn't plausible in this. But I don't imagine it to be that difficult to allot points to spend per level up. And you wouldn't necessarily need an NPC character to spend such points. It could be an inventory item or skill that brings up a menu or be an option accessible at save points. Assuming a custom menu isn't bothered with.

Instantly changing party members partially made sense in Chrono Trigger because of the time portals/the epoch, but in this scenario, most contrivances I can think of are not very attractive. Mages summoning people to and fro, perhaps.

Personally, I'd rather have one consistent party that is heavily customizable than having the ability to switch people out. I sort of like the idea that the world military is so crushed that no one can begin to reorganize it for such an effort as a guild system. But that's just my vote. I will see how the group at large feels.

Being able to instantly able to transfer a character to your current location could be exploitable. Of course, one might argue that a player is entitled to this if they bother to level up a whole separate character just to be good in one or two particular skills. But I think it adds a certain replay value to make the player commit to a selection of skills

Another personal note: I loathe blue magic style skill learning. It's never seems like any fun unless you have foreknowledge of the bestiary.


And going back over the topic, I am all for an intricate plot and storyline. While story certainly doesn't make the game typically, to be constantly developing it is a good way to keep people interested (me, for one). Plus, I really love a good story. I would much rather have an atypical story, though.

I think it is perfectly possible to have a compelling storyline without bottlenecking the player into events. It relies more on world building and an assortment of smaller events to set the tone and personality for the game. Quests can be involving so long as the player actually sees an impact from their actions, even if it is entirely optional.

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm a cutscene whore, and I adore games that have momentum generated by story. But I kind of expect that leniar story telling wouldn't fit well for this project.

Instead of directly confronting a villain at the beginning, note that an evil exists elsewhere in the world, and the party, while not directly affected by its presence, will certainly have to confront it eventually. Even better, the great evil is defeated by the third party before the player even gets a shot at it. The third party could in the end be corrupted by an artifact possesed by the evil, forcing the player to battle old friends, too. This is just an example of a way to spice up an old cliche (not that this example hasn't been done before. .) While greater heroes are off fighting a terrible evil, the player's party could be stuck in more rudimentary conflict, like they are fighting against a not-so-evil rival faction that is vying to gain diplomatic control over the immediate region.

Assuming you aren't implying a time limit (time limits suck.) Kind of steals the player's thunder. It could be interesting, but probably doesn't fit this scenario unless this third party is introduced and endeared properly. Which may not work well when the game is this open ended. The player would HAVE to have some emotional investment in this third party or it would just be a more convoluted evil over the original.

I definitely think that the player should be distracted by smaller conflicts and events for much of the game. Taking on any villain probably shouldn't even be on their minds for a great long while considering the odds. Confronting the villain, whoever he might be, is inevitable but I'd like for the defeat in this war to feel like a grim reality.

What I envision is that the world is under the villain's total dominion. Rebellion has been crushed, and there is no real way to organize a new effort to take him down. He WON, and you're living by his rules now. It would be a slow and long process to work up enough to strike back, and right now, survival takes priority. This challenges the player if he should be selfish and better take care of his party or sacrifice in order to help the common man. Either you accumulate power by exploiting and taking advantage of people (Which would drive you into a darker alignment, but naturally offer you more instant gratification) or you would do your best to serve your fellow man at your own expense, (Which would drive you into a more heroic alignment, it would be more difficult, but the people would rally behind you.)

I'm not very worried about the confrontation between your party and the villain being cliche. We can flesh out the villain later. I'm thinking that atmosphere, character building and the involvement of many side events will shape this game more than direct story telling. I think this is an instance where a journey is its own reward.

Generica - [RMVX..?]

Generica - [RMVX..?]

I don't mind having classes so much.

Here's the thing about control: It's good to give the player choices, but TOO MANY choices can be utterly overwhelming. If you are are given a choice between too many statistics, the player won't have any idea what to invest in and would probably become frustrated when the game crushes them as a result.

Classes help define a character's role in the party. I would prefer a sort of Fallout style leveling up system, where you get points to spend. Give the player enough options so that they can pick a handful of skills that are gratifying to have, (Being able to open locked chests at the expense of not being able to disable traps, for instance) but at the same time offering value to see what the other skills are like.

You might be able to 'rotate' the leader (Like Final Fantasy 4,) but have it where the one in the lead is the one whose skills are accessible on the map. Is that a bit too much work?

I vote against a CBS. They take way too much time to implement, most of the ones I encounter are way too clunky and a lot of projects are canceled because they get too engross with custom systems. Four party members is enough. We can focus our efforts on our already ambitious on out-side battle skillsets and balancing the skills and quests.

Forking dialogue to react to alignement/charisma is more work, but I think it's perfectly reasonable if our story isn't driven by the Player Characters. I think we should aim more for memorable supporting characters and keep the heroes blank slate avatars for the player. That will give the player freedom in developing their heroes without worrying about their independant motives and backstories. Those would just get in the way for a game this open ended.

Edit:

It would be interesting that maybe the "epic weapons" stemmed from this initial party that gets wiped out.

That would be cool. Maybe we can use the text commands to name the weapons after whatever you name the initial protagonists, even.

As for 'guild master' style, I don't know. It WOULD allow the player to focus a character on any given skill, and be able to switch them out as necessary. But this would also kind of require a 'home base' and this could be massively inconvenient if you're traipsing all over the world. Personally, I prefer small parties, since I hate grinding to keep a half dozen people up to par. Guild format gives the player more versatility, but also moves us away from a sensation of a close knit group in a dog-eat-dog world.

We Did It First screenshot thread

I do!

Disembodied voice doesn't seem like much of a ladies man.

Odin Sphere

Achievements are great and everything, but do you REALLY need to be acknowledged for your virtual accomplishments? They're just little digital trophies. They really shouldn't make normal games any less gratifying to play.

Generica - [RMVX..?]

Hero's Twilight? Egh. That title is IMMENSELY forgettable.

It's relevant to the game content, but if I was reading a game list and saw that, I'd pass it right on by without a second glance.

I'd suggest we not worry too much about the game title just yet.


author=MK634 link=topic=67.msg942#msg942 date=1182490076
1) Not only do I agree with Mewd's suggestion earlier to make the characters suriviors from a previous attempt to take out evil overlord type, but I, if I may, would like to expand on it. For instance the game could start just as the afore mentioned army is getting wiped out. The four (or the final amount) characters along with (if any) surivors are all trying to escape from behind enemy lines and regroup at either their homebase or the nearest safe haven. At this point one could have multiple paths to use to get to the destination like crossing through the montainous high lands filled with long and narrow caverns and treacherous passes, or braving the uncharted sea hopping from island to island while battling vicious sea monsters, or even ducking and dodging through the thick of enemy territory using stealth and guile to elude pursuers while slipping by dangerous ambushes, ect...

This is an interesting idea. It could be a pretty hectic game to start the game off, though.

Having a supposed place to regroup might be a good early goal, though I expect that we will need to sweep the rug out from the player somehow with this. It probably won't be terribly surprising if the regroup location has been discovered and decimated by the enemy forces, but I think I'd rather not give the player the sensation that their side of the army has a snowball's chance in hell right now.

I've considered the idea that we open with the player using a faux-party to confront the villain. Try and give the implication that maybe this is just the start of the game, but then have the villain kill the group with ease. (Which might be even more crushing if you got to name them) Or at least reference another group taking on the villain directly and failing.

People could be bitter and cynical as a result. You might try and rally the common folk to fight again, but the 'prophecy failed them' or some such. They wouldn't have much reason to help you in much, if any, capacity unless you go out and prove yourself. Maybe building a reputation stat by completing quests and whatnot. I'd like the situation to be entirely hopeless, yet having the protagonists struggling forward faithfully.

author=MK634 link=topic=67.msg942#msg942 date=1182490076
Now depending on the route and possibly on the actions taken during the trek back and assuming that the enemy launches a counter-attack against the characters home or destination they could lend a hand during the battle using newfound abilities and information to aid their allies in the defence of the nation (or they could arrive to a pile of burning rubble if they're late) (To avoid forcing players to go down an optimun route one could make the overall outcome of the battle the same. A forced retreat.)

This could be a drastic difference of scenario. Although maybe worth considering if it is a really early event in the game. (People are more likely to replay an early and appreciate an early part of a game than others) Ultimately, though, I kind of think we'll need this base to be destroyed.


author=MK634 link=topic=67.msg942#msg942 date=1182490076
One option for an after that scenario could be to have the characters go out to a netural country to look for arms and armours (or infomation pretaining to) for use to turn the tide with. (the country could be on the oppisite side of the enemy territory allowing more than one use of the multiple routes) Another is to find a weapon or weapons that can defeat the evil overlord type. (Albeit cliche but then again so are Evil OverLord Types) or even a combination of the two. (Like after getting the recipe to make weapons and armours to fight the enemy the characters are warned that unless the evil overlord type is defeated the world will know no true peace.)

Having epic weapons to find can be good long term quests, but I don't think the game should be bottle-necked by objectives. The nice thing about clean-slate characters is that their motivations are the player's motivations. You can tell them about something they can do, but they don't have to DO it unless the player wants to. The only real thing keeping them from going some place should probably be their skills, equipment, stats, and perhaps side-story elements. I think it would probably be good to even make the villain's final dungeon perfectly accessible from the start of the game, but far, FAR too much for your party to handle.

author=MK634 link=topic=67.msg942#msg942 date=1182490076
2) I was thinking that rather than having all the character's develop in the same way they could develop in different ways like one with a skill tree, another from weapons, the third through combat, and the final from good old shops and items. However, it seems that the blank slate idea is more popular than having preset characters. So I'll suggest that instead of characters developing differently lets make the classes develop differently. That way one class could grow from weapons and armour, another by absorbing enemy abilities and stat bonuses, a third through a skill tree, a fourth one from useage of the abilities, and so on.

That sounds WAY too complicated. It's usually difficult to make an alternate stat building system fun, but having to juggle four seems overwhelming.

Or I'm biased because I REALLY hated Final Fantasy Legends for making every single race develop drastically differently.

author=MK634 link=topic=67.msg942#msg942 date=1182490076
Also if the whole magically inept army gets wiped out by a pyshical powerhouse then perhaps giving characters classes they would naturally start with. Then in a move similar to Chrono Triggers magic training montage the characters could also learn the basic magic classes. And once you have those you could have them develop combination classes like in Dragon Quest's 6 & 7.

I imagined the army as being a world-wide effort to stop the villain. I can't see them as being magic focused specifically.

My vote is that we don't restrain the player from their range of class options at the start of the game. There could be second tier classes that they can develop into, hybrids, and whatnot, but I generally don't like it when games restrain my ability to develop and level up job skills just because I haven't reached a particular point of the game. (Final Fantasy Tactics was awesome in giving me freedom to develop however I wanted)

This is more Kentona's realm than mine, though.

RPGS... you've beaten

Sweet jujubees. I love Quest for Glory.

Generica - [RMVX..?]

Is it challenging to use DW4's graphics to make a dungeon as complex as the stuff standard to you?

Generica - [RMVX..?]

It would be good for the remaining participants to list their strengths and weaknesses as previously suggested. This way we can see what skills are available and how we can best utilize them. The participants are liable to shape what direction the game takes, so the game's potential mainly depends on what tools are available.

The project does not neccesarily have to be so old school that it can't raise above the faults of an old school style game. Assuming I'm allowed, I'm sure I can add more story depth to this than empty fetch quests. The game aims to be open ended, and open ended games have been perfectly capable of having interesting plot lines.

As for graphics, I don't know. I tend to feel rips are pretty lame. Low resolution graphics may have an appeal here, though. It depends on how well they're utilized.

Having a Pixel Artist wouldn't hurt either.

Last Legend [Demo]

Three hours and eleven minutes.