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Devlog 68: Demo Feedback Incoming
Devlog 68: Demo Feedback Incoming
Wow, you are indeed doing different characters after all! Ones with wholly different animations and stuff, too! Out of curiosity, are the upgrades and stuff still limited to Pan, or not? Not that many people would fault you if they were limited, since it's a whole lot of content already. All the other stuff in programming sounds cool, too!
[Poll] Why You No Nominate For 2015 Misaos Yet, RMN?
@nhubi: Thanks! I'll probably focus more on the unreviewed games for now (unless it's one of the games I promised to review to someone sometime), but this is helpful nevertheless.
@Liberty: Sure, I will. I have been a lot busier these past two months than I expected, but things ought to be getting better now. I'll also focus more on demos (which make up a great proportion of unreviewed games anyway) to be able to release them faster, without budging on the standards. I do need to fix up my laptop first, though: it's began crashing really frequently now, and I don't want to take any chances when playing through stuff.
@Sated: Yeah, I don't know what the deal was with those typo-ridden reviews on games like Aria's Story slipping past Soli, but it certainly wasn't a good sign. Then, again, at least we are not TVT with its 400 word maximum, which only about 15-25% of writers manage to use effectively.
@Liberty: Sure, I will. I have been a lot busier these past two months than I expected, but things ought to be getting better now. I'll also focus more on demos (which make up a great proportion of unreviewed games anyway) to be able to release them faster, without budging on the standards. I do need to fix up my laptop first, though: it's began crashing really frequently now, and I don't want to take any chances when playing through stuff.
@Sated: Yeah, I don't know what the deal was with those typo-ridden reviews on games like Aria's Story slipping past Soli, but it certainly wasn't a good sign. Then, again, at least we are not TVT with its 400 word maximum, which only about 15-25% of writers manage to use effectively.
RMN v4.6 a.k.a. "Backlog"
@Toaster_Team: This was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek post, but basically, the page I linked to was simply a list of all reviews there on RP, ordered by date. You weren't supposed to understand the words, since they're not important there, but simply look at the numbers. The system itself is technically just a percentage one from 1% to 100%: what makes it different are how much lower these numbers are compared to what you get from most critics. Just go there again and scroll down the list until you reach, say, the middle of 2014. You'll probably come away more than a little shocked, but its loyal users appreciate just that aspect of it. Simply put, you wouldn't be able to maintain such requirements in a 2-3 gradation system like Eurogamer's.
And as for that Makerscore argument... honestly, why is it still going? Not much is going to change, and it's just not cool. Your game, by contrast, is quite cool, so why not spend more time working on it instead? If you're stuck somewhere, say so, and I or someone else ought to help. :)
And as for that Makerscore argument... honestly, why is it still going? Not much is going to change, and it's just not cool. Your game, by contrast, is quite cool, so why not spend more time working on it instead? If you're stuck somewhere, say so, and I or someone else ought to help. :)
RMN v4.6 a.k.a. "Backlog"
@ToasterTeam: Well, I have looked a bit on Eurogamer. Their system does work for what it aims to do, but only because of the detail about the game, literally describing every aspect at length. I aim for that as well, and so do some other reviewers, but simply put, not everyone on here can do that. We would have to increase minimum review size to 2000+ and literally deny all reviews that don't express enough about plot, music, battle system, etc. to make that work, and it's going to drastically reduce amount of reviews in general. Even then, I still prefer this review system.; often not for the faint-hearted, yet always interesting.
Now, here are some ideas I expressed/saw expressed before about the technical state, now posted on their proper forum:
* Move the "non-game" things like plotless contest entries, map contests, etc. into their own category, one that'll not have reviews available for it and not count for the "Unreviewed" stat.
* Create a clear register of games on here whose downloads are available in theory but are all broken in practice. Then a) ask RMN members around for any copies, b) openly mark such games until the download is so that readers wouldn't waste time on them,
* Add a "Submit bug report" function to games with downloads. Sure, people try to point them out in reviews and comments, but I'm sure having a dedicated function like that is going to speed things up quite a bit for many people.
* As a way of combating the lack of reviews, we could create an opt-in group on here, whose members would receive a PM with a couple of suggested games/demos to play and review every two weeks or so. Entirely voluntary, opt-out at any time, and a good way to introduce newer users into contributing more often.
Now, here are some ideas I expressed/saw expressed before about the technical state, now posted on their proper forum:
* Move the "non-game" things like plotless contest entries, map contests, etc. into their own category, one that'll not have reviews available for it and not count for the "Unreviewed" stat.
* Create a clear register of games on here whose downloads are available in theory but are all broken in practice. Then a) ask RMN members around for any copies, b) openly mark such games until the download is so that readers wouldn't waste time on them,
* Add a "Submit bug report" function to games with downloads. Sure, people try to point them out in reviews and comments, but I'm sure having a dedicated function like that is going to speed things up quite a bit for many people.
* As a way of combating the lack of reviews, we could create an opt-in group on here, whose members would receive a PM with a couple of suggested games/demos to play and review every two weeks or so. Entirely voluntary, opt-out at any time, and a good way to introduce newer users into contributing more often.
[Poll] Why You No Nominate For 2015 Misaos Yet, RMN?
author=Sooz
HOME is popular on tumblr because it's a fixfic for OFF, which has a (deserved) huuuuuuge fandom. It isn't popular among RMN regulars because it honestly isn't very good or notable when decoupled from the fandom.
Yeah, I'm aware of that backstory. Still, I do think it's a little strange that the community's unconscious response has essentially been to ignore it completely and let Tumblr/other fans set the entire narrative on it.
@ nhubi: Thanks for the detailed reply. In fact, I think it might well be best to just move the engines, contest maps and such into their separate, "non-game download" category, so that they wouldn't distract from the real games that need reviewing.
As for defunct downloads, it's certainly a thing that needs to happen as well. I've already stumbled upon an example with U.S.G. ~A New Beginning~: a featured game, where not a single download appears to work. If there are hundreds of such examples, it certainly needs to get sorted out sooner rather than later.
In fact, can we make it an unofficial goal to clean these up and get the reviewed percentage to, say, 80%, by the website's 10th anniversary? That would be a nice round number to form an official Community Awards in a permanent, agreed-upon capacity, one that would also decide on both the "inside" categories we have for fun,and the "professional" categories like interface, while Misaos would be more about the categories everyone can have a reasonably informed opinion about.
[Poll] Why You No Nominate For 2015 Misaos Yet, RMN?
Honestly, I quite like the Misaos (although choosing to permanently drop anchor here right as last year's one concluded probably had something to do with it.) It certainly provides an insight into the psyche of RMN's visitors that year, if nothing else.
Then, fact that "Tumblr" nominees often win is in many ways a good thing, as it keeps us from becoming too insular. In a way, the question might well be not "why the masses of Tumblr et. al. ignore our games?", but "Why we ignore them?". I mean, HOME had been the frontrunner in several categories last year (before ultimately ceding ground to Oneshot like everything else), and it continues to get attention nowadays. Yet, not a single one of its reviews was written by an established user on here, as far as I remember, and I found that quite strange (I suppose I should get on it myself...some day.)
Lastly, the idea of replacing Misaos with something like a top reviewer committee sound nice in theory, but would be too early for now. Not only is actually organising for people to play that many games too difficult at the moment, but I just don't think it'll look good for us to be replacing a popular vote like that when there's still almost a thousand unreviewed games on here, including plenty of complete ones that were added throughout this year, only to be promptly forgotten about afterwards.
I might sound idealistic here, but I think that the right day for a Misao Committee would be the day when the number of "(Completed?) games with a download without a review" reaches zero, and not a moment sooner. Even then, we might wish to keep the original Misao with its silly name for those needing it, and have the Committee as a parallel, "Critic's Choice" event.
P.S.
Hm, that's the first time I'm hearing about it, and I'm still managing to look away so.... skills, I guess?
Then, fact that "Tumblr" nominees often win is in many ways a good thing, as it keeps us from becoming too insular. In a way, the question might well be not "why the masses of Tumblr et. al. ignore our games?", but "Why we ignore them?". I mean, HOME had been the frontrunner in several categories last year (before ultimately ceding ground to Oneshot like everything else), and it continues to get attention nowadays. Yet, not a single one of its reviews was written by an established user on here, as far as I remember, and I found that quite strange (I suppose I should get on it myself...some day.)
Lastly, the idea of replacing Misaos with something like a top reviewer committee sound nice in theory, but would be too early for now. Not only is actually organising for people to play that many games too difficult at the moment, but I just don't think it'll look good for us to be replacing a popular vote like that when there's still almost a thousand unreviewed games on here, including plenty of complete ones that were added throughout this year, only to be promptly forgotten about afterwards.
I might sound idealistic here, but I think that the right day for a Misao Committee would be the day when the number of "(Completed?) games with a download without a review" reaches zero, and not a moment sooner. Even then, we might wish to keep the original Misao with its silly name for those needing it, and have the Committee as a parallel, "Critic's Choice" event.
P.S.
author=Addit
"Gender and Race Topic (It’s hard not to get involved or look away.)"
Hm, that's the first time I'm hearing about it, and I'm still managing to look away so.... skills, I guess?
RMN v4.6 a.k.a. "Backlog"
author=Toaster_Team
Steam has that kind of system and it works well. People recommend or don't recommend something and explain why in their reviews.
Ahahahaha, very funny. By your logic, Steam could go a step further and remove all gradations, making it all about the words written. It doesn't, because there'll always be lots of people who are just looking to download a game quickly and have no time to read, regardless of the scoring method. Two-gradation system only benefits mediocrity by making it appear as good on the surface as the actual good games, or even the year's GOTY.
That's exactly the reason Steam uses it, of course, as it makes selling games easier, essentially lumping in the people who thought the game was GOTY-level great together with all the people who thought it was just mediocre, but didn't want to give it poor score, and all the shades in between. It basically stacks the deck against negative reviews, and so the most common score you'll find is "mostly positive", even when taking all the EA garbage, etc. into account.
In the long run, this simply devalues positive feedback and actually hurts the talented creators on the whole. People end up sticking to the genres they know they'll like and not experimenting with others because there's no way to tell average apart from great, or wait for the professional reviewers they trust to get around to the game (which is often never, given the volume of Steam release output.)
author=Toaster_Team
Also, 0.5 stars is a lot worse than not recommending a game. This explains why there's such an emotional response to such a score. Same thing with giving a 5 star rating. A lot of people such a high "score" isn't deserved and react accordingly.
Well, if it deserved it, it deserved it. As simple as that. No need to muzzle the range of reviewer expression. Oh, and what will you do with the hundreds of scored reviews that are already on here? Somehow, I doubt you'll see many people whose games' 2.5 scores will necessarily turn into "not recommended" (exactly akin to 1/0.5 star games) happy about it, just to give a straightforward example
I think the biggest problem is the variety of review philosophies (Does 5 mean "well made" or "outstanding" or even "perfect"? Is 3 a passing grade or a failure?) and there's not a lot one can do about that without becoming some kind of reviews dictator, which strikes me as less fun than what the powers that be here do already.
author=Toaster_Team
Actually, I'd also get rid of the MS, I don't understand the purpose of it.
Well, there are plenty of things whose purpose is not immediately apparent. People used to not understand why massless particles like neutrinos could exist, but now they turn out to be crucial for some of the most intricate particle physics calculations. Closer to home, some might question why "rpgmaker.net" needs to spend its bandwidth on Ruby visual novels and GameMaker platformers, but both contribute quite handsomely to it in the end, don't they?













