Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
Profile
Locker
Play ListsRYAREISENDER'S PROFILE
RyaReisender
200
CloseSearch
Filter
All
Game Pages
User Statuses
Are achievements a poor way to increase game length?
I really prefer to play games because they are fun and not because I want achievements. But that's a personal opinion. If you hang around gamefaqs for example you will see those massive amounts of players that want all the PS3 Trophies. It is quite popular. Up to the point where people ask for games where it's easy to get the Platinum Trophy. They don't even care for the genre! Whaaat.
Anyway, for me, hmmm, I guess it really depends on the genre for me. In RPGs I NEVER cared for achievements. Sure, I DO get them while playing. Because if you play an RPG you're bound to eventually having fought 1000 battles. And I also might do exactly 777 damage in one hit. But it's not like I'm aiming for stuff like that at all.
It's different for arcade games, though. Those are usually 30 minutes or shorter and the whole fun lies within trying to achieve something. If the game doesn't have achievements then it's usually just increasing your score or trying to 1cc the game (beating it with 1 credit). With achievements you have a variety of other challenges that can indeed be quite fun.
I guess I can imagine achievements in RPGs for minigames.
Also sometimes achievements are helpful because they tell you what you have missed in the game. This makes it very conformtable to look up the content you've missed and play it. For example there are 10 optional dungeons in the game and if you beat the boss of an optional dungeon you get an achievement. When I'm done with the game I see I have 6 achievements of 10. I check which 4 achievements I'm missing and then I can check on the internet how to get them and will easily find out where the dungeons are I missed.
Usually just finishing an RPG doesn't give you much pointers on what you've missed in it, so you'd need to read through a whole walkthrough just to find it.
Anyway, for me, hmmm, I guess it really depends on the genre for me. In RPGs I NEVER cared for achievements. Sure, I DO get them while playing. Because if you play an RPG you're bound to eventually having fought 1000 battles. And I also might do exactly 777 damage in one hit. But it's not like I'm aiming for stuff like that at all.
It's different for arcade games, though. Those are usually 30 minutes or shorter and the whole fun lies within trying to achieve something. If the game doesn't have achievements then it's usually just increasing your score or trying to 1cc the game (beating it with 1 credit). With achievements you have a variety of other challenges that can indeed be quite fun.
I guess I can imagine achievements in RPGs for minigames.
Also sometimes achievements are helpful because they tell you what you have missed in the game. This makes it very conformtable to look up the content you've missed and play it. For example there are 10 optional dungeons in the game and if you beat the boss of an optional dungeon you get an achievement. When I'm done with the game I see I have 6 achievements of 10. I check which 4 achievements I'm missing and then I can check on the internet how to get them and will easily find out where the dungeons are I missed.
Usually just finishing an RPG doesn't give you much pointers on what you've missed in it, so you'd need to read through a whole walkthrough just to find it.
Are achievements a poor way to increase game length?
Better than repetitive grinding.
In fact achievements work really well for many people. I know many who just play games for the achievements.
In fact achievements work really well for many people. I know many who just play games for the achievements.
Abandoning Features That You Can't Get to Work?
How to add fun to grinding?
And then... they are like "We have considered your feedback on how grinding is boring and stuff and found a solution: Pay $30 to start with a max level character right away!"
How to add fun to grinding?
Only slightly related but it's funny how even Blizzard indirectly implies that grinding in WoW is boring: http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/01/world-of-warcraft-survey-asks-how-much-would-you-pay/
Abandoning Features That You Can't Get to Work?
I'd think it would depend on how promising your project is.
Well it's not like I'd script for others, but stuff I really enjoy like game design or battle balance, I'd probably do for someone else if he asks me and can show me he's good in other aspects (like graphics). I mean I'm already helping out for free simply by replying to game design threads or posting suggestions, bug lists and reviews on the game pages. The step to help out by writing a script doesn't seem that big. Then again coding a (graphic-less) battle system in C++ is probably easier than doing one with with RPG Maker scripting, so maybe I just have a wrong impression on the effort required.
But I agree that first having something "done" and then later get help to improve it is the best way unless you want to pay someone for it.
It's just hard with battle system because all the hero growth and monster stats should really depend on the battle system.
Well it's not like I'd script for others, but stuff I really enjoy like game design or battle balance, I'd probably do for someone else if he asks me and can show me he's good in other aspects (like graphics). I mean I'm already helping out for free simply by replying to game design threads or posting suggestions, bug lists and reviews on the game pages. The step to help out by writing a script doesn't seem that big. Then again coding a (graphic-less) battle system in C++ is probably easier than doing one with with RPG Maker scripting, so maybe I just have a wrong impression on the effort required.
But I agree that first having something "done" and then later get help to improve it is the best way unless you want to pay someone for it.
It's just hard with battle system because all the hero growth and monster stats should really depend on the battle system.
Abandoning Features That You Can't Get to Work?
That would be the case for lack of ability, but what if the developer only likes certain aspects of a game? Shouldn't he stick with the things he enjoys?
Abandoning Features That You Can't Get to Work?
What about getting a friend who enjoys scripting and can code a battle system for you? Is that rare in this community?
Abandoning Features That You Can't Get to Work?
I don't believe in this whole "Some people just can't do X".
For more than 10 years I believed I'm really bad at graphics. I maybe tried a few scribbles in paint and they looked horrible. I couldn't draw on paper or do anything really.
But then I talked with a guy good at art and he told me that he works on a single 20x20 pixel tile more than 1 hour. That's when I realized, that those good artists aren't just so good because they have talent, it's because they invest so much effort into it.
So I went and read several pixel artist tutorial and in the end I could do my own graphics which weren't actually so bad.
Ever since then I believe everyone can learn everything and be good at it.
The only problem that remains is the motivation. Because it's really hard to do something you don't enjoy doing, even if you are good at it.
For more than 10 years I believed I'm really bad at graphics. I maybe tried a few scribbles in paint and they looked horrible. I couldn't draw on paper or do anything really.
But then I talked with a guy good at art and he told me that he works on a single 20x20 pixel tile more than 1 hour. That's when I realized, that those good artists aren't just so good because they have talent, it's because they invest so much effort into it.
So I went and read several pixel artist tutorial and in the end I could do my own graphics which weren't actually so bad.
Ever since then I believe everyone can learn everything and be good at it.
The only problem that remains is the motivation. Because it's really hard to do something you don't enjoy doing, even if you are good at it.
How to add fun to grinding?
I agree with most said. It's not like many people go grinding in MMORPGs because they think it's fun. People grind for example because they want a good armor or a high level so they can dominate other players in PVP. Because what is really fun for most is making others suffer by killing them over and over. Some even pay hundreds or thousands of $ just to be the strongest and able to dominate others.
In Aion for example, players are doing mass suiciding all day to lose exp, so they can stay in low level PVP regions while gaining better and better gear. And then they go around and kill 100+ players without dieing. And then they say this is the best aspect of the game.
There are a few MMORPGs where grinding is actually fun, let's say 10 out of 200 (for reasons, see above), but it's still not the main reason why people play these games.
And MMORPGs certainly shouldn't taken as example when you are designing an RPG Maker game. At least not when you want to make your game fun (which is implied by the thread title).
@LockeZ
It makes sense to remove things that are not fun and force the player to NOT do them. The problem is with things that are fun for some and not fun for others. Like difficulty. You might think yourself that a game that is really challenging but not impossible is most fun and you might right about that. But different people have different skill. You can perfectly balance the game for yourself, but if someone better or worse than you plays it, his fun will be limited because he's not you.
Even more simple example: You like trance music most, so you put trance music in your game. People who also like trance music will of course enjoy it. But people who don't like it won't. If the music style was optional everybody could listen to the music he likes most.
The question is not if you are a better game designer than the player, the question is how to make a game so that it's fun for different kinds of people. Of course you can also draw the "niche" card...
In Aion for example, players are doing mass suiciding all day to lose exp, so they can stay in low level PVP regions while gaining better and better gear. And then they go around and kill 100+ players without dieing. And then they say this is the best aspect of the game.
There are a few MMORPGs where grinding is actually fun, let's say 10 out of 200 (for reasons, see above), but it's still not the main reason why people play these games.
And MMORPGs certainly shouldn't taken as example when you are designing an RPG Maker game. At least not when you want to make your game fun (which is implied by the thread title).
@LockeZ
It makes sense to remove things that are not fun and force the player to NOT do them. The problem is with things that are fun for some and not fun for others. Like difficulty. You might think yourself that a game that is really challenging but not impossible is most fun and you might right about that. But different people have different skill. You can perfectly balance the game for yourself, but if someone better or worse than you plays it, his fun will be limited because he's not you.
Even more simple example: You like trance music most, so you put trance music in your game. People who also like trance music will of course enjoy it. But people who don't like it won't. If the music style was optional everybody could listen to the music he likes most.
The question is not if you are a better game designer than the player, the question is how to make a game so that it's fun for different kinds of people. Of course you can also draw the "niche" card...
Games - Tester
Games - Other
