Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
Profile
Locker
Play ListsRYAREISENDER'S PROFILE
RyaReisender
200
CloseSearch
Filter
All
Game Pages
User Statuses
How to add fun to grinding?
Well, it's true but it most RPGs it takes considerable time to level up. Even if you can level up in 5 battles, you can't just level up 10 times easily, because that's not 50 battles but more like 500 battles if you don't move into harder regions.
Even in Disgaea, leveling up isn't really easy until post-game where you start abusing mechanics. I think Disgaea rather has slow leveling because you only get each character level up 1-2 times per battle and those battles can take quite a bit of time (up to an hour).
But yeah slow leveling but make leveling meaningful seems best to me.
Even in Disgaea, leveling up isn't really easy until post-game where you start abusing mechanics. I think Disgaea rather has slow leveling because you only get each character level up 1-2 times per battle and those battles can take quite a bit of time (up to an hour).
But yeah slow leveling but make leveling meaningful seems best to me.
What elements from existing games would you like to see reused?
I liked full HP recovery in FFXIII, but it's true that it signicantly lacks a big variety in encounters (something that many RPGs actually lack! especially those the past 10 years).
I think there are actually quite some RPGs where all character start at level 1. Phantasy Star II comes to mind first (which made quite good use of them because depending on dungeon certain characters are clearly better than others). I could probably find more if I went through all the games.
That's because unlike me you see grinding as something negative.
I think there are actually quite some RPGs where all character start at level 1. Phantasy Star II comes to mind first (which made quite good use of them because depending on dungeon certain characters are clearly better than others). I could probably find more if I went through all the games.
I don't think adding grinding just so you can create a little bit of mystery to the characters when they first join is a good tradeoff. What's the actual point here? I'm missing something.
That's because unlike me you see grinding as something negative.
How to add fun to grinding?
On that note, I like it when level up always has a noticable improvement.
Often RPGs are so that leveling up is quite significant early on (HP 30->45, ATK 8->12, aka 50% increase) but loses significance towards the end (HP 9000->9090, ATK 300->303, aka 1% increase). That makes it often hardly noticable. Because whether you hit that 100 def kraken boss for 200 damage or 203 damage doesn't really matter much.
Better is if a single level higher is always a significant difference. So you actually feel the improvement.
Often RPGs are so that leveling up is quite significant early on (HP 30->45, ATK 8->12, aka 50% increase) but loses significance towards the end (HP 9000->9090, ATK 300->303, aka 1% increase). That makes it often hardly noticable. Because whether you hit that 100 def kraken boss for 200 damage or 203 damage doesn't really matter much.
Better is if a single level higher is always a significant difference. So you actually feel the improvement.
What elements from existing games would you like to see reused?
Talking about that, I like it when a more experienced character joins, he also has a higher level. For example in Phantasy Star IV if you have someone joining who is completely inexperienced in battle he will join at level 1, while that super legendary magician join with level 18 while you are just around level 5.
On the other hand I also like it when all new characters start at level 1, even further into the game. Often character who join later will get stronger at the same level, but it then requires some time investment. But it's fun to see how the characters grow and what their strong points are in the end.
On the other hand I also like it when all new characters start at level 1, even further into the game. Often character who join later will get stronger at the same level, but it then requires some time investment. But it's fun to see how the characters grow and what their strong points are in the end.
What elements from existing games would you like to see reused?
Oh, another feature I LOVE in RPGs is being able to power up your habilities through usage.
I'd put that into Kawazu's "characters should automatically grow the way you play them" concept. :-)
Puzzles
I wouldn't generally say that puzzles are a concept I'd like to see, many games are better off without them, especially if they are just push the boxes on the switches and stuff like that. Well executed and uniquely dungeon-themed puzzles can be fun, though.
Also what I forgot to mention:
SaGaFrontier - LP system - You have HP and LP. If your HP reach 0, you become unconcious and lose 1 LP. If you are hit while being unconcious you lose 1 LP. At the end of the battle you fully recover HP. This is an amazing system that combines "every battle is a challenge" with "resource management".
Generally I prefer "every battle is a challenge", so full recovery after every battle is pretty much one of the best imaginable systems for me.
@LockeZ
I guess we simply have a very different taste in games. :-)
I don't think menu browsing is the core of RPGs. In fact I think immersion is and any kind of menu destroys immersion a little.
(Though that's not the most important aspect for me personally. I'd actually say "good music" if you asked me what is most important to me in an RPG.)
What elements from existing games would you like to see reused?
For me closests to PE is the Fatal Frame series (Project Zero). It is quite a bit less an RPG, but at it had all the you get exp for good attacks and can level up your abilities stuff. Plus every enemy required a certain strategy to defeat, which made it feel much less like the usual shooter horror survival game.
What elements from existing games would you like to see reused?
Equipments that teach you abilities is in my opinion a very very horrible system. It ruined some games for me. The problem with the system is that you feel forced to get every single equip, equip it and then master all its abilities. This causes an extremely high amount of menu browsing, continuously changing your equips and changing your equipped abilities. Argh!
(I hate menu browsing.)
Edit:
Oh and talking about Lufia II, I like one thing about it and also Shining Force: When a character levels up, it will list step-by-step the stats that increase. It's exciting! Worst thing is if it just tells you "Level up" with no other info.
(I hate menu browsing.)
While the idea might be good in theory, in practice Kawazu's games tend to be known for having very poor implementations; Final Fantasy II, where he got his start, was particularly nightmarish. The systems tend to be both hard to balance and vulnerable to exploitation.I'm personally a big Kawazu fan and while it's true that FFII still had a poor implementation of the concept, Kawazu improved with every game he made (except maybe SaGaFrontier 2).
Edit:
Rya, I think half your list is just games you like rather than features you like in those games.I like the games because I like their features!
Oh and talking about Lufia II, I like one thing about it and also Shining Force: When a character levels up, it will list step-by-step the stats that increase. It's exciting! Worst thing is if it just tells you "Level up" with no other info.
What elements from existing games would you like to see reused?
Chrono Trigger - Scripted Battle "Fade-Ins" - Basically each battles tells its own small story just via visuals. Battle will be on-screen but with a separate system (not an action RPG).
SaGaFrontier (or any Kawazu game) - Character growth - Characters get stronger depending on how you use them, impossible to skill wrongly, they will automatically become perfect in the style you play them.
Romancing SaGa (or RSG3) - Open World System - Basically there is an introduction and an ending, but whatever you do between that is completely up to you. You need to hear about a place from NPCs to be able to visit it, once unlocked you can visit it and solve its mystery. Anything you do affects the future (of the region at least). Multiple characters to start with all with their own small story and different starting positions. Extremely big feeling of exploration.
Ar Tonelico II - Rhythm Defense - Enemies attack in a certain rhythm if you press the button at the perfect time, you can reduce the damage by 95% (and it scales down the further you are away from perfect). Generally battle systems that combine strategy with rhythmic input are quite fun.
Shining Force - Game System - There are many things that are great about Shining Force and that make it much better than any other SRPG in existence for me:
a) You can walk around town and the world map - RPG style: talk to NPCs, find hidden passages, find treasures. You can visit shops and the church. Game has soo many secrets. You hardly see secrets in SRPGs otherwise.
b) You can retreat from a battle, revive your characters and try again while keeping the exp. Many SRPGs don't allow grinding at all and that often makes me stuck, I like it when they give me a chance to grind.
c) Very nice and simple controls - characters get automatically chosen by their Agility stat, you can just move them directly, and with one click you open an easy menu and can select the action with just one button press. Other SRPGs often have too much unnecessary menu browsing.
Phantasy Star - Setting / Atmosphere - A sci-fi RPG that actually makes use of sci-fi elements, but still has a traditional battle system (no action RPG or shooter!).
Phantasy Star III - Generation System - You can choose what woman to marry, you get different children (and kingdoms) depending on choice. Then you continue with your first-born male child that can later choose a partner once again.
Wonder Boy In Monster World - Minimalistic Story Telling - The game has an epic story, but still there is hardly any dialogue. Even major plot NPCs won't talk more than 6 lines of text. I like it!
Visions & Voices - Mystery Survival RPG - Basically the idea that you investigate a haunted place and you have to figure out the mystery before time runs out (and sleeping which passes time is the only way to recover). The execution isn't perfect here yet, but the idea is awesome.
(Emphemeral Phantasia is also a bit like this, but it's executed even worse.)
Shining in the Darkness - Game System - A dungeon crawler that isn't overcomplicated, has a fixed dungeon design, features "instant escape" spells, the world needs more games like this.
Suikoden - Characters in Battle - There need to be more games that allow 6 characters in combat (3 are too little and 4 is acceptable but toooo common).
I hate how games always try to argue why you can only fight with 3 characters despite having 6 people!
Valkyrie Profile - One-button Battle System - You only need button presses to do the battles, one button per character. Very simple gameplay, but awesome to watch.
GrimGrimoire - Game System - A game like GrimGrimoire (real-time strategy seen sideways) but playable with mouse.
Muramasa The Demon Blade - Graphic Style - VanillaWare's graphic style is amazing. They don't really grasp how to make games that don't repetitive and boring after 10 hours, but their graphic style is perfect.
Parasite Eve - Horror/RPG Hybrid - World needs more games that have an interesting and exciting horror story, but plays more like an RPG than a shooter.
Unlimited SaGa - Board Game Inspired - More games should take inspirations and ideas from board games or should play exactly like them. There are actually quite some very RPGish board games, too bad they rarely get 1:1 video game ports.
(I intentionally only referred to RPGs, otherwise the list would be huge.)
SaGaFrontier (or any Kawazu game) - Character growth - Characters get stronger depending on how you use them, impossible to skill wrongly, they will automatically become perfect in the style you play them.
Romancing SaGa (or RSG3) - Open World System - Basically there is an introduction and an ending, but whatever you do between that is completely up to you. You need to hear about a place from NPCs to be able to visit it, once unlocked you can visit it and solve its mystery. Anything you do affects the future (of the region at least). Multiple characters to start with all with their own small story and different starting positions. Extremely big feeling of exploration.
Ar Tonelico II - Rhythm Defense - Enemies attack in a certain rhythm if you press the button at the perfect time, you can reduce the damage by 95% (and it scales down the further you are away from perfect). Generally battle systems that combine strategy with rhythmic input are quite fun.
Shining Force - Game System - There are many things that are great about Shining Force and that make it much better than any other SRPG in existence for me:
a) You can walk around town and the world map - RPG style: talk to NPCs, find hidden passages, find treasures. You can visit shops and the church. Game has soo many secrets. You hardly see secrets in SRPGs otherwise.
b) You can retreat from a battle, revive your characters and try again while keeping the exp. Many SRPGs don't allow grinding at all and that often makes me stuck, I like it when they give me a chance to grind.
c) Very nice and simple controls - characters get automatically chosen by their Agility stat, you can just move them directly, and with one click you open an easy menu and can select the action with just one button press. Other SRPGs often have too much unnecessary menu browsing.
Phantasy Star - Setting / Atmosphere - A sci-fi RPG that actually makes use of sci-fi elements, but still has a traditional battle system (no action RPG or shooter!).
Phantasy Star III - Generation System - You can choose what woman to marry, you get different children (and kingdoms) depending on choice. Then you continue with your first-born male child that can later choose a partner once again.
Wonder Boy In Monster World - Minimalistic Story Telling - The game has an epic story, but still there is hardly any dialogue. Even major plot NPCs won't talk more than 6 lines of text. I like it!
Visions & Voices - Mystery Survival RPG - Basically the idea that you investigate a haunted place and you have to figure out the mystery before time runs out (and sleeping which passes time is the only way to recover). The execution isn't perfect here yet, but the idea is awesome.
(Emphemeral Phantasia is also a bit like this, but it's executed even worse.)
Shining in the Darkness - Game System - A dungeon crawler that isn't overcomplicated, has a fixed dungeon design, features "instant escape" spells, the world needs more games like this.
Suikoden - Characters in Battle - There need to be more games that allow 6 characters in combat (3 are too little and 4 is acceptable but toooo common).
I hate how games always try to argue why you can only fight with 3 characters despite having 6 people!
Valkyrie Profile - One-button Battle System - You only need button presses to do the battles, one button per character. Very simple gameplay, but awesome to watch.
GrimGrimoire - Game System - A game like GrimGrimoire (real-time strategy seen sideways) but playable with mouse.
Muramasa The Demon Blade - Graphic Style - VanillaWare's graphic style is amazing. They don't really grasp how to make games that don't repetitive and boring after 10 hours, but their graphic style is perfect.
Parasite Eve - Horror/RPG Hybrid - World needs more games that have an interesting and exciting horror story, but plays more like an RPG than a shooter.
Unlimited SaGa - Board Game Inspired - More games should take inspirations and ideas from board games or should play exactly like them. There are actually quite some very RPGish board games, too bad they rarely get 1:1 video game ports.
(I intentionally only referred to RPGs, otherwise the list would be huge.)
Are achievements a poor way to increase game length?
Well occcasionally popups on achievements for beating bosses even on easy are good if you have a global achievement system like with XBox and PS3, because player actually do care about the reward.
Maybe I should explain the systems a bit more in-detail:
XBox Achievements - There are points called "Gamer Score". Any big title is allowed to give out up to 1000 points while any smaller (XBox Live Arcade) title is allowed to give out up to 200 points in achievements. Indie titles aren't allowed to use the function unless you get the XBLA license. Score from different games are added together so for example you have a say 3800 gamer score. This gamer score is visible to everyone else if you play online and to your friends. So having a high gamer score allows you to show off.
PS3 Achievements - There are no points but instead Trophies separated in Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum. Every big title can only give out one Platinum trophy (and I think smaller titles not at all?). Generally here the platinum trophies are what count to "show off". Must people only care about getting those. Unfortunately in most RPGs it's almost impossible to get them because they involve stuff like "Finding every single item, fighting every single monster and seen every ending". In other games with no optional content it's often just "Beat game on highest difficulty", though I guess it's debatable which one is easier to get (assuming you don't use cheats).
Point is - it's fine that these occasionally reward the player because players actually want the reward. If someone has played through half of the game he wants at least 20% of the points or trophies. Trophies too far off the main game would just distract the players to do something "grindy" and that could actually ruining the gameplay experience. Though I guess there's nothing wrong with giving much more rewards on higher difficulties.
Maybe I should explain the systems a bit more in-detail:
XBox Achievements - There are points called "Gamer Score". Any big title is allowed to give out up to 1000 points while any smaller (XBox Live Arcade) title is allowed to give out up to 200 points in achievements. Indie titles aren't allowed to use the function unless you get the XBLA license. Score from different games are added together so for example you have a say 3800 gamer score. This gamer score is visible to everyone else if you play online and to your friends. So having a high gamer score allows you to show off.
PS3 Achievements - There are no points but instead Trophies separated in Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum. Every big title can only give out one Platinum trophy (and I think smaller titles not at all?). Generally here the platinum trophies are what count to "show off". Must people only care about getting those. Unfortunately in most RPGs it's almost impossible to get them because they involve stuff like "Finding every single item, fighting every single monster and seen every ending". In other games with no optional content it's often just "Beat game on highest difficulty", though I guess it's debatable which one is easier to get (assuming you don't use cheats).
Point is - it's fine that these occasionally reward the player because players actually want the reward. If someone has played through half of the game he wants at least 20% of the points or trophies. Trophies too far off the main game would just distract the players to do something "grindy" and that could actually ruining the gameplay experience. Though I guess there's nothing wrong with giving much more rewards on higher difficulties.
Games - Tester
Games - Other
