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Abandoning Features That You Can't Get to Work?
Y'know "ability" is not really a limit as you can alwasy learn new stuff (like scripting).
I hate limitations in RPG Makers which is the main reason I'm making games with pure programming the past years.
I hate limitations in RPG Makers which is the main reason I'm making games with pure programming the past years.
How to add fun to grinding?
I think LockeZ's argument is that if every battle is different you are not actually partaking in a reptitive activity as the activity is not repetitive.
How to add fun to grinding?
Grinding isn't fun in most MMORPGs.
It's exactly how Backwards_Cowboy and me wrote already. There are 3 things that really help grinding:
- skill required in combat
- versatility (high variety of strategies / encounters)
- playing with others
In some MMORPGs all 3 criterias are given and then grinding is fun.
If you are talking about your general MMORPG with endless locally respawning monsters and you just press "Tab" to target it and "1" to initiate attack in endless loop, then it's not fun.
Though every boring task can be made fairly bearable if you chat while doing it.
It's exactly how Backwards_Cowboy and me wrote already. There are 3 things that really help grinding:
- skill required in combat
- versatility (high variety of strategies / encounters)
- playing with others
In some MMORPGs all 3 criterias are given and then grinding is fun.
If you are talking about your general MMORPG with endless locally respawning monsters and you just press "Tab" to target it and "1" to initiate attack in endless loop, then it's not fun.
Though every boring task can be made fairly bearable if you chat while doing it.
How to add fun to grinding?
One reason I like grinding is that it gives me a chance to finish every game by just investing a bit more time.
In games with no or limited grinding, when I die at a boss, I will simply not play the game anymore (unless I think I know a way to increase my odds on the next attempt). That means even if I liked the story I will never see it through the end because the game puts a challenge that's harder than I can overcome.
If the game allows grinding and I die at a boss I know. Hey, let's just leave the dungeon for now and do some other dungeon or side quest or something and come back later and I know when I come back, I will be significantly stronger and can defeat the boss now. It somehow gives me a reason to continue going. I like it particularly much in games that are challenging and offer a rather open world (as in, if you can't beat one boss you always have other stuff to do).
Grinding can be pretty bad in easier games because you might end up overleveled and then the battles are no longer fun because it's too hard to die in them even if you don't even care about tactics anymore.
Grinding for me is a great way to balance difficulty. I like it a lot more than an always-changeable difficulty setting because "I die at the boss, I set difficulty to easy and then defeat the boss easily." feels really dumb, while grinding feels like when I defeat the boss I'm actually getting rewarded for my effort.
And games that try to solve it differently usually end making the game easier for good players and harder for bad players, which is pretty counterproductive. If the reward for a good player is that he has to grind less rather than getting a better item or gold reward, then that keeps the difficulty high for him, while the weaker player will have to invest some effort as penalty but in the end he will continue the game at a higher level, making the difficulty a bit easier.
In games with no or limited grinding, when I die at a boss, I will simply not play the game anymore (unless I think I know a way to increase my odds on the next attempt). That means even if I liked the story I will never see it through the end because the game puts a challenge that's harder than I can overcome.
If the game allows grinding and I die at a boss I know. Hey, let's just leave the dungeon for now and do some other dungeon or side quest or something and come back later and I know when I come back, I will be significantly stronger and can defeat the boss now. It somehow gives me a reason to continue going. I like it particularly much in games that are challenging and offer a rather open world (as in, if you can't beat one boss you always have other stuff to do).
Grinding can be pretty bad in easier games because you might end up overleveled and then the battles are no longer fun because it's too hard to die in them even if you don't even care about tactics anymore.
Grinding for me is a great way to balance difficulty. I like it a lot more than an always-changeable difficulty setting because "I die at the boss, I set difficulty to easy and then defeat the boss easily." feels really dumb, while grinding feels like when I defeat the boss I'm actually getting rewarded for my effort.
And games that try to solve it differently usually end making the game easier for good players and harder for bad players, which is pretty counterproductive. If the reward for a good player is that he has to grind less rather than getting a better item or gold reward, then that keeps the difficulty high for him, while the weaker player will have to invest some effort as penalty but in the end he will continue the game at a higher level, making the difficulty a bit easier.
Is RNG good or bad?
If PVP was 1vs1 that would be a problem but as said it's a team PVP game. So I don't really see it so critical if just one dude from one of many guilds has the item. But that's why RNG is needed here. If it was just "do this quest 10000 times and you get the item" then after a while everybody who wanted it will have it.
In PSO I think that Psycho Wand is simply so rare because it's an actual item from the original offline game series, which according to the lore only exists once. It's probably more a "just for show" item.
In PSO I think that Psycho Wand is simply so rare because it's an actual item from the original offline game series, which according to the lore only exists once. It's probably more a "just for show" item.
Not saving giving a better reward?
How to add fun to grinding?
As a person that actually loves grinding, I have to agree with the people who said it's silly to just generally say that grinding is boring and can never be fun.
To answer the question, I think the main way to make grinding fun is making the combat fun. In Tales of Phantasie I often just started it up to do 5-10 battles without continueing with the story at all. That's because I really liked the battle system. In Ragnarok Online I can grind forever due to the the battles requiring skill and the monsters respawning at a random location each time and being able to randomly walk over the whole map. Also their view range is as high as your. This gives really fun gameplay as you have to walk around the map to find more monster but never now when you will suddenly be surrounded by them which due to the challenge and skill required can get quite troublesome.
For normal RPG Maker games with a turn based battle system I'd usually suggest to make ALOT of different possible encounters. Usually people only put 3-6 different encounters per dungeon. Make it 30 at least with at least 6 different monsters, combat in different ways. Then try to put monsters in those encounters that work well together and can be easily won with the right tactic, but are hard with the wrong tactic. Tactic means skill and thinking required, making the battle system more fun. Add more randomness to monster behavior in combat so that even if the player has the same encounter again, it's different depending on what skills the monsters choose.
However, since the OP said he doesn't have random encounters, I strongly recommend AGAINST grinding. Grinding is not fun if it's always the same. Even if you randomize loot and quest rewards it will NOT be fun. Combat (or you whatever you repeat) itself needs to be different too.
To answer the question, I think the main way to make grinding fun is making the combat fun. In Tales of Phantasie I often just started it up to do 5-10 battles without continueing with the story at all. That's because I really liked the battle system. In Ragnarok Online I can grind forever due to the the battles requiring skill and the monsters respawning at a random location each time and being able to randomly walk over the whole map. Also their view range is as high as your. This gives really fun gameplay as you have to walk around the map to find more monster but never now when you will suddenly be surrounded by them which due to the challenge and skill required can get quite troublesome.
For normal RPG Maker games with a turn based battle system I'd usually suggest to make ALOT of different possible encounters. Usually people only put 3-6 different encounters per dungeon. Make it 30 at least with at least 6 different monsters, combat in different ways. Then try to put monsters in those encounters that work well together and can be easily won with the right tactic, but are hard with the wrong tactic. Tactic means skill and thinking required, making the battle system more fun. Add more randomness to monster behavior in combat so that even if the player has the same encounter again, it's different depending on what skills the monsters choose.
However, since the OP said he doesn't have random encounters, I strongly recommend AGAINST grinding. Grinding is not fun if it's always the same. Even if you randomize loot and quest rewards it will NOT be fun. Combat (or you whatever you repeat) itself needs to be different too.
Is RNG good or bad?
Well in Ragnarok Online for example those really rare items are usually very overpowered. Like one boss 0.01% drop makes you immune to magic. Now PVP in Ragnarok Online if mostly guild vs guild. If only one player of one guild has the item, they have an advantage, but other guilds will know it if they face that guild and can prepare for it and position physical attackers to hunt down the person with the item.
If that item existed more than 2-3 times, magic will become useless and the whole concept would break and make PVP boring.
Not saying it's a good concept, some server even opted to remove that item completely. But in the end it's a concept that sells well.
If that item existed more than 2-3 times, magic will become useless and the whole concept would break and make PVP boring.
Not saying it's a good concept, some server even opted to remove that item completely. But in the end it's a concept that sells well.
Is RNG good or bad?
The problem is that if you do anything that does NOT depend on chance (or only a little), then everybody can get the item.
Also randomness in MMORPGs is nice because it often helps weaker players.
If you made it so that you get that ultimate weapon if you kill 100000 monsters, then the strongest player will get that weapon first and get even stronger. If it's a 1/100000 chance per kill, then even a new player who just killed the first monster might get it.
In MMORPGs RNG helps to keep things interesting. Yes it's not fair, but that's not the main goal in these games. Luck games are more addictive after all.
Also randomness in MMORPGs is nice because it often helps weaker players.
If you made it so that you get that ultimate weapon if you kill 100000 monsters, then the strongest player will get that weapon first and get even stronger. If it's a 1/100000 chance per kill, then even a new player who just killed the first monster might get it.
In MMORPGs RNG helps to keep things interesting. Yes it's not fair, but that's not the main goal in these games. Luck games are more addictive after all.
Is RNG good or bad?
Well if you want an item to only exist on a server once or twice you have to put 1/131072 drop rates.
In Ragnarok Online there are 0.01% boss drops and those bosses only appear every 2 hours. Yet there are plenty of those items on the server now after 10 years.
I tell you if you find such an item in an MMORPG you feel so extremely good, nothing else gives such a feeling.
In Ragnarok Online there are 0.01% boss drops and those bosses only appear every 2 hours. Yet there are plenty of those items on the server now after 10 years.
I tell you if you find such an item in an MMORPG you feel so extremely good, nothing else gives such a feeling.
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