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WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW?
Posts
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
Red_Nova
View playlists
CloseIt's almost as if different cultures react differently to the same symbolism. Call me crazy, but I've got a strange feeling that the localization team know a little more about how the Chinese would react to demon worship than you do. Selling the game without any changes might have actually hurt FFXV more than helped. Would you rather they just NOT localized it and leave fans with no way to support the company and games they love?
Relevant because of the accusation of a lack of artistic integrity. May or may not be necessarily relevant to conversation at hand.
Relevant because of the accusation of a lack of artistic integrity. May or may not be necessarily relevant to conversation at hand.
author=kentona
This place is not a place of honor.
No highly esteemed deed is commemorated here.
Nothing valued is here.
This place is a message and part of a system of messages.
Pay attention to it!
Sending this message was important to us.
We considered ourselves to be a powerful culture.
https://www.damninteresting.com/this-place-is-not-a-place-of-honor/
http://www.wipp.energy.gov/picsprog/articles/wipp%20exhibit%20message%20to%2012,000%20a_d.htm
This would be really cool to implement in an RPG, either as a post-apoc setting OR as a place where an ancient evil being is sealed.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
Woah.
That looks like a game over screen.
That looks like a game over screen.
Fans almost always do a better job of localizing.
EDIT: Actually machines do a pretty hilarious job, too.
EDIT: Actually machines do a pretty hilarious job, too.
author=FlyingJester
Fans almost always do a better job of localizing.
EDIT: Actually machines do a pretty hilarious job, too.
I had to stop because I am eating and this is too funny xD Thank you for sharing!
Kevincalanor
519
author=FlyingJester
EDIT: Actually machines do a pretty hilarious job, too.
That's real epic, wish I could download it xD
Wha-a?
How I'm supposed to attend to the ballroom dancing then?
I definately don't want to have an enema judging me.
Especially not about wearing a basketball, which is a pretty rubbish idea to be fair.
Edit:
We must return the Bullshit at once, to all the chests we ransacked along the way! :D
Especially not about wearing a basketball, which is a pretty rubbish idea to be fair.
Edit:
We must return the Bullshit at once, to all the chests we ransacked along the way! :D
Kaliesto
583
I don't believe that, editing always happens when X-group gets upset, and then they follow with the changes, they're no better than people who do censor.
Again, I just don't care anymore. People are such morons these days about video game. Also who gives the right for Localization Teams to do what they want? They shouldn't be allowed to edit someone's game just because they see something they don't like, all for the sake of money just to sell it, pathetic.
Again, I just don't care anymore. People are such morons these days about video game. Also who gives the right for Localization Teams to do what they want? They shouldn't be allowed to edit someone's game just because they see something they don't like, all for the sake of money just to sell it, pathetic.
Kaliesto
583
author=Jeroen_Solauthor=KaliestoYou mean the localizers make decisions to make minor changes to the game to make it more accessible for a wider audience? It's almost like they're doing their job! legasp!
I also hate the fact I'm finding out that Localization Teams are in on it too (such as Treehouse that localizes Nintendo Games), and have this cult bias about them, no one is telling them what to do..it is actually all on their decisions.
They have been accused of showing negative bias towards one game, but not another.
That team is not a angel, how dare I question them!
I'll go a step further, I'm glad Fan-Translators exist as a big "FUCK YOU" to them, and restore other things as well. They're doing something right at least since they give a damn unlike Big Business.
Also I'm getting tired of the wider audience excuse, you know this was not a issue way back when, and now suddenly it is? We have to cater to everyone's taste nowadays? That is just obscene to me.
author=Kaliesto
Also who gives the right for Localization Teams to do what they want?
The people who own the game.
Housekeeping
3571
If you want to discuss censorship because of localization and its impact on artistic intent, I think there's merit to that, but let's not pretend that FF 15 is a bastion of artistic integrity.
Kaliesto
583
The whole advertisement thing? Yes I'm aware of that. I've kind of grown to hate Square Enix for a lot of things as of last night, I cannot defend that company anymore.
In fact I cannot defend most of the Japanese Companies anymore, they're a bunch of scum to me now, I'm glad a lot of the original developers left when they did when they noticed the wind going against them.
I know of couple of you are making light of this, and putting me down, but if we as gamers keep allowing this practice then it is only going to get worse for years to come.
In fact I cannot defend most of the Japanese Companies anymore, they're a bunch of scum to me now, I'm glad a lot of the original developers left when they did when they noticed the wind going against them.
I know of couple of you are making light of this, and putting me down, but if we as gamers keep allowing this practice then it is only going to get worse for years to come.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
author=SgtMettoolauthor=KaliestoThe people who own the game.
Also who gives the right for Localization Teams to do what they want?
^^^
Kaliesto, where are you getting the info that localization teams do whatever they want with the translation without any input from the devs?
Give this a read, please: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/localizing-video-games-for-different-markets-is-a-minefield
So it's up to the original developers how much involvement they want in the localization. If anything, according to this article, it's easy for Japanese management to want TOO MUCH control over localization.
Kaliesto
583
That is just what I was reading form hardcore fans of Nintendo, Treehouse has been put under the accusation box for things they have done to localize a game, apparently Nintendo isn't doing anything because apparently Treehouse is acting on their own what is appropriate or not, the targeted games are usually T-rated games, and this is why I said there needs to be a new T+ rating.
Also looking at that article you posted, I don't know who to believe right now, this is why I'm not choosing to believe anything coming out of Japanese Companies, they have a tendency to lie from what the things I've read about.
Also looking at that article you posted, I don't know who to believe right now, this is why I'm not choosing to believe anything coming out of Japanese Companies, they have a tendency to lie from what the things I've read about.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
I think we've discussed this black-and-white viewpoint of you before. In this very topic, I might add.
I hate to take Ace Attorney as an example of how localization works, as I have the distinct feeling I might have done so before, but I'll do it anyway. I love Ace Attorney, after all.
Ace Attorney has always been a series with some pretty dark and serious murder cases, but in order to not depress the player with heavy material too much, those gritty murders always come with zany characters, witty inner monologues, glorious puns, and various references to pop culture.
Now what did they do in the Western localizations? They realized that just literally translating the gamee would completely kill the entire point of the games. The vast amount of puns and references to Japanese pop culture and culture in general in both the dialogue and cases themselves would not work for a Western audience, because they hold no meaning to them. So what did they do? They changed the game to take place in California rather than Japan. (Or, as fans call it, Japanifornia.) Having the game play in a Western setting, with English puns and references to Western pop culture has made the franchise appeal to literally millions of people. People who now scream 'Objection!' at the top of their lungs and laugh at Maya's obsession with burgers would otherwise have just gone: "Igiari? Ramen? What's that?" and dropped the game amidst hundreds of other references they didn't get.
The developers did not censor the game. They edited it. They edited it to make it more accessible for a worldwide audience and reach a larger amount of people. I cannot stress enough that this is completely acceptable. Game developers and their localization team are completely free to choose what they do and do not edit in a game during any stage of development. That includes the localization phase.
Rather than saying people are being morons about video games and the whole world is wrong and should accept no changes to games whatsoever, I encourage you, please do some self reflection and find out why you so strongly believe in something so flawed.
I hate to take Ace Attorney as an example of how localization works, as I have the distinct feeling I might have done so before, but I'll do it anyway. I love Ace Attorney, after all.
Ace Attorney has always been a series with some pretty dark and serious murder cases, but in order to not depress the player with heavy material too much, those gritty murders always come with zany characters, witty inner monologues, glorious puns, and various references to pop culture.
Now what did they do in the Western localizations? They realized that just literally translating the gamee would completely kill the entire point of the games. The vast amount of puns and references to Japanese pop culture and culture in general in both the dialogue and cases themselves would not work for a Western audience, because they hold no meaning to them. So what did they do? They changed the game to take place in California rather than Japan. (Or, as fans call it, Japanifornia.) Having the game play in a Western setting, with English puns and references to Western pop culture has made the franchise appeal to literally millions of people. People who now scream 'Objection!' at the top of their lungs and laugh at Maya's obsession with burgers would otherwise have just gone: "Igiari? Ramen? What's that?" and dropped the game amidst hundreds of other references they didn't get.
The developers did not censor the game. They edited it. They edited it to make it more accessible for a worldwide audience and reach a larger amount of people. I cannot stress enough that this is completely acceptable. Game developers and their localization team are completely free to choose what they do and do not edit in a game during any stage of development. That includes the localization phase.
Rather than saying people are being morons about video games and the whole world is wrong and should accept no changes to games whatsoever, I encourage you, please do some self reflection and find out why you so strongly believe in something so flawed.
Good localization goes a long way to make comedy remain even in a different country. I always loved the job Atlus' did in that regard. There was also a strong sub-base on their own forums clamoring for wanting more japanese-japanese (and audio).
Still I can see how if you are engrossed in how you want it - in which case the Japanese version or fan translations particularily cater to that. So be kool with that~
We all know stupid examples, but we won't make examples out of appropriate stuff and you'll chose to put emphasis on what strikes you, have at you, I personally disagree tho.
I am kool with letting it rest at that.
Still those screens are priceless : D Damn
Still I can see how if you are engrossed in how you want it - in which case the Japanese version or fan translations particularily cater to that. So be kool with that~
We all know stupid examples, but we won't make examples out of appropriate stuff and you'll chose to put emphasis on what strikes you, have at you, I personally disagree tho.
I am kool with letting it rest at that.
Still those screens are priceless : D Damn
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
Also, fan translations make changes even if it's just the text. Thanks to differences in sentence structures across languages, translators have to rewrite most text in order to make sense to people who don't speak that language.
For example: Say you want to translate a line of dialogue from Japanese to English. Japanese sentence structure is subject-object-verb, while English is subject-verb-object. If you want to translate a sentence from Japanese to English, you're gonna have to change the sentence itself in order to make sense to English speakers. And that's not to say if overall tone the sentence wants to convey will probably be lost with such a restructuring.
So to properly translate the sentence to a different language while staying within the original character's personality, you're gonna have to put in some creative effort yourself. That's editing. Which is no better than censorship according to you. And yet somehow fan translations are a big middle finger to localization companies? Hm...
The only way to truly view the original work is to learn the language and get the original work. It doesn't matter if you're a fan translator or in a "big business." Localization involves editing, plain and simple. If you're dead set on calling editing censorship, then stop buying localized games.
For example: Say you want to translate a line of dialogue from Japanese to English. Japanese sentence structure is subject-object-verb, while English is subject-verb-object. If you want to translate a sentence from Japanese to English, you're gonna have to change the sentence itself in order to make sense to English speakers. And that's not to say if overall tone the sentence wants to convey will probably be lost with such a restructuring.
So to properly translate the sentence to a different language while staying within the original character's personality, you're gonna have to put in some creative effort yourself. That's editing. Which is no better than censorship according to you. And yet somehow fan translations are a big middle finger to localization companies? Hm...
The only way to truly view the original work is to learn the language and get the original work. It doesn't matter if you're a fan translator or in a "big business." Localization involves editing, plain and simple. If you're dead set on calling editing censorship, then stop buying localized games.
Kaliesto, I don't know why you're so aggravated by the idea that developers and localizers want to reach as wide of an audience as possible "for the sake of money". That is exactly what a business is designed to do.
Game cost money to make. Developers need to be paid. There has to be a return on the investment. Because the simple fact of the matter is that if a game bombs because it didn't sell, then that company isn't going to able to make any more games (or they'll just stop localizing games in foreign markets. i.e. Dragon Quest for the longest time.) There is absolutely no conceivable business reason why a company would decide "Let's make it so that this multi-million dollar game is only understood by 10,000 hardcore fans instead of the 500,000 who would potentially buy this."
Economics go into games, whether you want them to or not. And unless you're a self-made hobbyist making games on the weekends, there's not going to be any other way.
Game cost money to make. Developers need to be paid. There has to be a return on the investment. Because the simple fact of the matter is that if a game bombs because it didn't sell, then that company isn't going to able to make any more games (or they'll just stop localizing games in foreign markets. i.e. Dragon Quest for the longest time.) There is absolutely no conceivable business reason why a company would decide "Let's make it so that this multi-million dollar game is only understood by 10,000 hardcore fans instead of the 500,000 who would potentially buy this."
Economics go into games, whether you want them to or not. And unless you're a self-made hobbyist making games on the weekends, there's not going to be any other way.
Gotta give points, though - there are legit bad localisations out there. Jelly donuts anyone? 4kids ruining One Piece, anyone?
That said, there are some amazing ones out there too, and some that fall in the middle. Quite frankly, it's hard work localising something to a whole other culture and making it -work-. Call out the crap, yeah, but don't do that unless you know for certain it's crap that needs calling out. Your example of demons in Chinese localisations being changed is silly as there's a necessity for it when it comes to the sensibilities of Chinese standards.
It's like complaining about Ace's tattoo being changed in OP - sure, his new one looks silly in comparison, but most people would have seen the original as a German Nazi symbol instead of the swastika as it was supposed to be (pro tip - if it's flat on the bottom it's Nazi. If it's resting on a point, it's a symbol of peace). Oda was the one who gave the go-ahead to change that symbol because he understood it wouldn't translate well to other parts of the world. Sometimes there are very good reasons for changes between versions of games, especially if it's something incredibly insulting (Jinx being black originally in Pokemon, or this clown dude)
That said, there are some amazing ones out there too, and some that fall in the middle. Quite frankly, it's hard work localising something to a whole other culture and making it -work-. Call out the crap, yeah, but don't do that unless you know for certain it's crap that needs calling out. Your example of demons in Chinese localisations being changed is silly as there's a necessity for it when it comes to the sensibilities of Chinese standards.
It's like complaining about Ace's tattoo being changed in OP - sure, his new one looks silly in comparison, but most people would have seen the original as a German Nazi symbol instead of the swastika as it was supposed to be (pro tip - if it's flat on the bottom it's Nazi. If it's resting on a point, it's a symbol of peace). Oda was the one who gave the go-ahead to change that symbol because he understood it wouldn't translate well to other parts of the world. Sometimes there are very good reasons for changes between versions of games, especially if it's something incredibly insulting (Jinx being black originally in Pokemon, or this clown dude)
