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FF7 REMAKE. IT'S A THING.
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zacheatscrackers
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CloseDoesn't FF13-2 improve on its predecessor to a degree? Like, make it less linear and whatnot?
Because that's kinda what's drawing me away from the original 13. A big part of the enjoyment of the FF series, for me, is exploring and doing optional stuff inbetween story quests, and since 13 is apparently lacking in that, I don't have much of a desire to play it. I still might do it since it's apparently important to do so in order to understand 2's story, but eeeggghh.
Because that's kinda what's drawing me away from the original 13. A big part of the enjoyment of the FF series, for me, is exploring and doing optional stuff inbetween story quests, and since 13 is apparently lacking in that, I don't have much of a desire to play it. I still might do it since it's apparently important to do so in order to understand 2's story, but eeeggghh.
author=BizarreMonkey
Though I won't complain if they make the combat like in Crisis Core, fuck that was a good RPG combat system.
So you complain about Final Fantasy XIII's combat but actually liked the slot randomness and clunky combat from Crisis Core?
Final Fantasy XIII's combat was fun for me, far from perfect, but fun.
author=BizarreMonkey
It's directed by Tetsuya Nomura.
Yes, that same guy who was responsible for Final Fantasy VII.
One of the guys responsible for Final Fantasy VII.
Ignoring big names, the game was made by a team of about 100 people and it's been stated on several interviews that everyone added/suggested something to the game.
That's why it's so unique
EDIT: @acheatscrackers
For me, Final Fantasy XIII didn't feel like a Final Fantasy game, but I still enjoyed it a lot as a game, don't be afraid about having to understand the first game's story to dive into the second game, XIII-2 story is bollocks, you play the game for the gameplay only, seriously, they even ignored some key/main characters of the first game since they weren't popular with fans, no artistic vision here.
Also, I'd like to say that the linearity of the first game makes sense from a story perspective, spoilers:
The player starts in a controlled, oppressive world, thus everything is linear to reinforce that notion, then the player enters a free world, and the gameplay and maps open up to give more freedom of choice and sidequests, also to reinforce the notion of a free world.
For me this really helps in contrasting both worlds and shows how bold they were for doing this, even if it was unfortunately misinterpreted.
For me this really helps in contrasting both worlds and shows how bold they were for doing this, even if it was unfortunately misinterpreted.
author=id
The player starts in a controlled, oppressive world, thus everything is linear to reinforce that notion, then the player enters a free world, and the gameplay and maps open up to give more freedom of choice and sidequests, also to reinforce the notion of a free world.
For me this really helps in contrasting both worlds and shows how bold they were for doing this, even if it was unfortunately misinterpreted.
The problem is that there are a ton of games that did this exact same concept without making the player feel robbed of gameplay and time. I think that reasoning falls flat.
author=Feldschlacht IVIt can be done well, though! Just as long as it doesn't drag on.
The problem is that there are a ton of games that did this exact same concept without making the player feel robbed of gameplay and time. I think that reasoning falls flat.
See: Any elder scrolls game, Dishonored, Ratchet and Clank: Gladiator, Deus Ex.
Tl:dr; those games you spoke of were poorly designed, there are plenty of exceptions.
Sorry, but Morrowind is not a good example of this. The other Elderscroll games, sure, but not that game. (Yes, I know people like it but I ask if it is due to nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses because it's a horrible game. Just... horrible. And I played it not long after it came out and came to the same conclusion then as now - the main series' games afterwards? Great. That game? No. :/)
Also, that said, I would never say that an Elderscrolls game had great starts. It's a one-off start that is boring even the first time you play it. That's why there's so many who swear by the Alternate Start mods for them - because the start of those games are just bad. The rest of the games, though? Great! Good shit.
Also, that said, I would never say that an Elderscrolls game had great starts. It's a one-off start that is boring even the first time you play it. That's why there's so many who swear by the Alternate Start mods for them - because the start of those games are just bad. The rest of the games, though? Great! Good shit.
And too much text. Far too much text. Don't get me wrong, I love dialogue but there is such thing as too much and Morrowind hit that limit within the first half-hour of play. ;.;
(Don't get me wrong - I wanted to like the game - the concept was great for it's time and the graphics (while so, so horribad) were at least a brave attempt at realism (key word - attempt) in a fantasy world, but I just couldn't.)
Oblivion, though. That's the shit right there. (Ah, please note that 'the shit' is a highly positive term.)
(Don't get me wrong - I wanted to like the game - the concept was great for it's time and the graphics (while so, so horribad) were at least a brave attempt at realism (key word - attempt) in a fantasy world, but I just couldn't.)
Oblivion, though. That's the shit right there. (Ah, please note that 'the shit' is a highly positive term.)
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=idI saw this quoted and thought you were actually talking about Midgar vs. suddenly arriving at the world map
The player starts in a controlled, oppressive world, thus everything is linear to reinforce that notion, then the player enters a free world, and the gameplay and maps open up to give more freedom of choice and sidequests, also to reinforce the notion of a free world.
For me this really helps in contrasting both worlds and shows how bold they were for doing this, even if it was unfortunately misinterpreted.
However the "irony" is that in FF7 the game gets more linear when you leave the controlled, oppressive world of Midgar and enter the wide open world. The gameplay still pretty much flows directly from one mandatory dungeon to the next, but the zones aren't interconnected any more. You start following a single trail from start to finish.
I put "irony" in quotes because it's not actually irony. Like FF13, it's linked to the story. From the time Sephiroth takes Jenova's body from Shinra Tower in Midgar, Cloud is literally being controlled by Jenova, and his journey across the world chasing Sephiroth is a demonstration of his lack of free will. The world map exists during this phase to trick you, just as Cloud is tricked into thinking he has free will. This section of the game ends when he reaches his destination, joins the Reunion, and then leaves the party - and finally your free will as a player returns, and you start revisiting old zones and the world opens up for real with the airship.
Wutai breaks this whole theory apart, of course. Oh well.
author=Feldschlacht IV
The problem is that there are a ton of games that did this exact same concept without making the player feel robbed of gameplay and time. I think that reasoning falls flat.
Can you give me some examples?
@LockeZ
The gameplay gets less linear after leaving Midgar, it remains mostly the same but with more stuff to play with (materias, equipments, enemies, etc).
Plus you can access sidequests and visit a lot of optional places, which doesn't really make it too linear, rather your typical JRPG fare.
You don't get that much ""freedom"" in Midgar.
JRPGs are pretty much linear with optional stuff along the way, it's all about going from A to B.
I doesn't bother me though, I like linear with a cool story.
Liberty
And too much text. Far too much text. Don't get me wrong, I love dialogue but there is such thing as too much and Morrowind hit that limit within the first half-hour of play. ;.;
I wouldn't say the game is any more text heavy than the other Elder Scrolls titles, at least, not more than you would expect it to be. The fact that it's not voice acted and displayed all scrunched up in those text boxes probably makes it seem worse, but I'd say the story is only a bit thicker, just as the story in Oblivion in a bit thicker than Skyrim. It makes sense going back, considering how the series changed when coming into the modern day.
Besides, more story in an ES game is never a bad thing. The ES universe is one of the straight up best fantasy settings out there.
I still really need to sit down and play Morrowind- I think the biggest thing stopping me is the learning curve on the combat, since it's still using the old school Elder Scrolls system (or something similar to it anyhow). Oblivion will forever be my favourite ES game but I really do feel like I'm missing out on important gaming/series history without playing Morrowind.
LockeZ
I put "irony" in quotes because it's not actually irony. Like FF13, it's linked to the story. From the time Sephiroth takes Jenova's body from Shinra Tower in Midgar, Cloud is literally being controlled by Jenova, and his journey across the world chasing Sephiroth is a demonstration of his lack of free will. The world map exists during this phase to trick you, just as Cloud is tricked into thinking he has free will. This section of the game ends when he reaches his destination, joins the Reunion, and then leaves the party - and finally your free will as a player returns, and you start revisiting old zones and the world opens up for real with the airship.
Wutai breaks this whole theory apart, of course. Oh well.
I never even thought about that, but damn, that makes the game so much cooler in retrospect.
Here's an unpopular opinion: Wutai sucks.
Seriously, I can't stand generic Japanland locations in JRPGs- it always, always fucks up the immersion and seems to be stupidly commonplace (for what it is) just so developers can throw in Ninjas and Hot Springs and other bullshit.
Well, Wutai is an unavoidable aside - it's the strings of the past trying to pull at Cloud and get him away from Sephiroth (Wutai is a decaying town, just like Cloud's psyche is decaying.) Your hand is forced by ShinRa to divert from the main path, and even in Wutai there are things that lead back to Sephiroth - the search for him is still ongoing with the Turks being there. It's definitely a break, though, as your own step-away from the chase is mirrored by the Turks' having a day off.
Or something. I'm being distracted by someone so I'm trying to get ideas down while they're there, but said person won't shut up. :/
No, there's more text. So, so much more. Or at least it feels like it - long, boring text of boring longness. Words. So many words. Tiny words in tiny text in large boxes that are unending. Whyyyyyyyyy?
I actually just tried to find scripts for the games to check but no luck. :/
Or something. I'm being distracted by someone so I'm trying to get ideas down while they're there, but said person won't shut up. :/
No, there's more text. So, so much more. Or at least it feels like it - long, boring text of boring longness. Words. So many words. Tiny words in tiny text in large boxes that are unending. Whyyyyyyyyy?
I actually just tried to find scripts for the games to check but no luck. :/
I'm pretty sure Wutai is a metaphor for how some people felt when Japan remained traditional and other countries were getting "ahead" using new technology.
I like Wutai and the sidequest. Cool (much needed) character development right there.
(copy paste from last post below)
@LockeZ
The gameplay gets less linear after leaving Midgar, it remains mostly the same but with more stuff to play with (materias, equipments, enemies, etc).
Plus you can access sidequests and visit a lot of optional places, which doesn't really make it too linear, rather your typical JRPG fare.
You don't get that much ""freedom"" in Midgar.
JRPGs are pretty much linear with optional stuff along the way, it's all about going from A to B.
I doesn't bother me though, I like linear with a cool story.
I like Wutai and the sidequest. Cool (much needed) character development right there.
(copy paste from last post below)
@LockeZ
The gameplay gets less linear after leaving Midgar, it remains mostly the same but with more stuff to play with (materias, equipments, enemies, etc).
Plus you can access sidequests and visit a lot of optional places, which doesn't really make it too linear, rather your typical JRPG fare.
You don't get that much ""freedom"" in Midgar.
JRPGs are pretty much linear with optional stuff along the way, it's all about going from A to B.
I doesn't bother me though, I like linear with a cool story.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
FF7 game script
Wutai isn't unavoidable, it's a skippable sidequest. I mean Yuffie is a secret optional character, and you can't do anything in Wutai if you don't have her. And there's no reason to go there at all except that she asks you to.
I definitely wouldn't call it a decaying town, either. Lower Midgar is a series of decaying towns. Lower Junon is a decaying town. Gongaga is a decaying town. North Corel is a decaying town. Wutai is a barely-concealed analogy for real-life Japan - a very traditional country that started a war with a global superpower and was conquered, and now is run by that superpower and forced to abandon its traditional way of life, but keeps up false appearances because the only thing it's good for now is tourism. I'm sure that zone's story was conceived and written by some old person at Squaresoft who was bitter about World War II.
It all has pretty much zilch to do with the rest of FF7, both story-wise and tonally. It's like something from a different game that was shoehorned in. Someone on the writing team was smart enough to work the Turks and Don Corneo into the storyline there at least. I won't be upset if Wutai is gone from the remake (and I'll be astonished if it's still there, actually)
Wutai isn't unavoidable, it's a skippable sidequest. I mean Yuffie is a secret optional character, and you can't do anything in Wutai if you don't have her. And there's no reason to go there at all except that she asks you to.
I definitely wouldn't call it a decaying town, either. Lower Midgar is a series of decaying towns. Lower Junon is a decaying town. Gongaga is a decaying town. North Corel is a decaying town. Wutai is a barely-concealed analogy for real-life Japan - a very traditional country that started a war with a global superpower and was conquered, and now is run by that superpower and forced to abandon its traditional way of life, but keeps up false appearances because the only thing it's good for now is tourism. I'm sure that zone's story was conceived and written by some old person at Squaresoft who was bitter about World War II.
It all has pretty much zilch to do with the rest of FF7, both story-wise and tonally. It's like something from a different game that was shoehorned in. Someone on the writing team was smart enough to work the Turks and Don Corneo into the storyline there at least. I won't be upset if Wutai is gone from the remake (and I'll be astonished if it's still there, actually)
It's called a decaying town by Yuffie (or near to) because of the war destroying the hearts and pride of its people, and it becoming a tourist trap instead of the proud country it used to be. That's what Yuffie stealing the materia is all about - she wants to make her country what it used to be by making it strong again, unbreaking it. To her, it is decaying from what it used to be.
(Also, I never went through a game of FF7 without going there after getting Tiny Bronco. I completely forgot that it was optional. XD )
Thinking about it, the towns in the game really bring to light the plight of the planet with ShinRa as the main power - ShinRa is causing the planet, and thus the countries under its control - to decay and die. The details of the game are really quite poignant and mirrors itself over and over in various ways. It's a pity the translation wasn't better from the offset because there's a lot of incredible thought put into the story and setting.
(Also, I was talking about Morrowind and Oblivion's game scripts. ;p All I could find were script editors. >.<; )
(Also, I never went through a game of FF7 without going there after getting Tiny Bronco. I completely forgot that it was optional. XD )
Thinking about it, the towns in the game really bring to light the plight of the planet with ShinRa as the main power - ShinRa is causing the planet, and thus the countries under its control - to decay and die. The details of the game are really quite poignant and mirrors itself over and over in various ways. It's a pity the translation wasn't better from the offset because there's a lot of incredible thought put into the story and setting.
(Also, I was talking about Morrowind and Oblivion's game scripts. ;p All I could find were script editors. >.<; )
LockeZ
It all has pretty much zilch to do with the rest of FF7, both story-wise and tonally. It's like something from a different game that was shoehorned in. Someone on the writing team was smart enough to work the Turks and Don Corneo into the storyline there at least. I won't be upset if Wutai is gone from the remake (and I'll be astonished if it's still there, actually)
Yeah, pretty much. It's the only part of FF7 that doesn't feel at all like FF7, so I wouldn't be sad to see it heavily changed in the remake.
:<
I liked it. It has cat house. And Leviathan.
And is Yuffie-centric.
They could probably rework it in to fit better, though. Perhaps as a place to check for rare materia (Leviathan) - it's not too far a stretch for ShinRa to think that Wutai was holding out on them by trying to keep a huge materia secret from them, after all, and it could be interesting to see a less laid-back section of the plot take place there, with the Turks thinking Yuffie has stolen the materia and a chase to get to her first.
Hell, put it after you get the black materia but before Sephiroth steals it, then have Yuffie steal all your materia and have to race against the Turks to get it back and you have a better and more story-centric reason to head there. Have a scene at the top of the mountain where Sephiroth swoops in and forces Cloud to hand over the materia while both the Turks and your party watch in horror... could work~
I liked it. It has cat house. And Leviathan.
And is Yuffie-centric.
They could probably rework it in to fit better, though. Perhaps as a place to check for rare materia (Leviathan) - it's not too far a stretch for ShinRa to think that Wutai was holding out on them by trying to keep a huge materia secret from them, after all, and it could be interesting to see a less laid-back section of the plot take place there, with the Turks thinking Yuffie has stolen the materia and a chase to get to her first.
Hell, put it after you get the black materia but before Sephiroth steals it, then have Yuffie steal all your materia and have to race against the Turks to get it back and you have a better and more story-centric reason to head there. Have a scene at the top of the mountain where Sephiroth swoops in and forces Cloud to hand over the materia while both the Turks and your party watch in horror... could work~
Wutai is awesome!
The pagoda, the Da-chao, the cool looking interiors with secret passages!
Plus I loved that so much content was optionl.
It's a great contrast to show what life without reactors would look like.
Japan, man!
The pagoda, the Da-chao, the cool looking interiors with secret passages!
Plus I loved that so much content was optionl.
It's a great contrast to show what life without reactors would look like.
Japan, man!
author=LibertyLol i didn't like morrowind either, though mostly because it has the cardinal sin of having a chance to miss even when your hit is 100% accurate on screen.
Sorry, but Morrowind is not a good example of this. The other Elderscroll games, sure, but not that game.
author=LibertyIt's definitely my favourite of the three i played, Skyrim is good but just a bit too refined, I liked the amount you could build your character in Oblivion.
Oblivion, though. That's the shit right there. (Ah, please note that 'the shit' is a highly positive term.)
I made a heavy weaponzerker, light armor, athletics, and had a big fuck off two hander.
So much fun, just watched things come at me and fall to my mighty axe. Was an orc too because racial boons.
Dark Elf spellthief was also a fun though risque build.
Sorry, getting off-topic. Wutai I personally liked, because i just have a fancy for Oriental Architecture, what i didn't like was she jumbled up my materia after she stole it, rotten hearted witch.
She redeemed herself though. I really liked her design in Advent Children, too.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Liberty
Hell, put it after you get the black materia but before Sephiroth steals it
But these two things happen literally in the same breath. Cait Sith makes the sacrifice that this game so loves to shove in your face whenever it can (seriously, Cid, if you want to die, that's fine, but don't make it about you and the "greater good" or some shit like half of the cast has done before this**) in order to compact the Temple of the Ancients into the diamond-shaped Black Materia. The party stands outside near the crater mourning the loss when Cloud jumps down to get said Black Materia (this is also where Cait Sith 2.0 makes an appearance so that you don't actually lose more than one lead character in the entire game *cop-out*) but is immediately possessed by Sephiroth to throw it to him before he flies off as he usually does.
And Yuffie - being an optional character that only appears during random forest overworld battles after Mt. Nibel - would have to become a main character in order for them to explain who this new person is and why/how she runs away with the Black Materia all the way back to Wutai, which is practically on the other side of the world and across a vast ocean. I feel having her and Vincent as optional characters really adds value to the game because it gives you cool rewards for doing stuff that you'd only do if you wanted to in the first place.
What they need to do (though they never will because it'll destroy everything "good" about FF7) is rewrite the game's story to iron out all the stupid instances of "I was here all along, bwa ha ha ha ha!!!11one" so that it's not an embarrassing mess.
** I dare you to go back through the game and count how many "it's hopeless, we'll never survive" *cue deus ex machina* moments there are. It's staggering.
That's the thing - it would both introduce Yuffie to the plot as a proper main character, allow the team to have held on to the black materia for more than a second (I always felt that scene was cheap - the whole 'oh, Cait Sith is instantly replaced while Cloud just happens to lose his mind straight away), give time for a Cait Sith to 'come back to life' (and travel to their location), give Wutai a reason to exist, exclude Corneo from returning (fuck that guy) and yet still give the Turks a reason to hang around Wutai aside from having a holiday.
It would actually work well. The crew gets the black materia. They're not sure what to do with it. Suddenly, sneak thief (who could be alluded to have been following them since around Gongaga) steals the materia (A special materia with great destructive capabilities would, to her mind, perhaps give her country a chance to fire back against the ShinRa and become the power it used to be in the past). This forces them to chase her to Wutai, where the Turks (ears ever to the ground and amped up over Tseng's injuries) are also after the materia (both to get a big ol' weapon of doom and stop Wutai from getting it) and get caught up in chasing Yuffie. She runs up the mountain, you race against the Turks to get to her first, and when you catch her Sephiroth swoops down and takes the prize (with Cloud - who has been acting more and more erratic after the whole Temple ordeal - handing it over).
Cue Yuffie joining to make up for the trouble she caused (and nab your materia when the game is done, of course~), Cait Sith catching up and Aeris leaving.
It would actually work well. The crew gets the black materia. They're not sure what to do with it. Suddenly, sneak thief (who could be alluded to have been following them since around Gongaga) steals the materia (A special materia with great destructive capabilities would, to her mind, perhaps give her country a chance to fire back against the ShinRa and become the power it used to be in the past). This forces them to chase her to Wutai, where the Turks (ears ever to the ground and amped up over Tseng's injuries) are also after the materia (both to get a big ol' weapon of doom and stop Wutai from getting it) and get caught up in chasing Yuffie. She runs up the mountain, you race against the Turks to get to her first, and when you catch her Sephiroth swoops down and takes the prize (with Cloud - who has been acting more and more erratic after the whole Temple ordeal - handing it over).
Cue Yuffie joining to make up for the trouble she caused (and nab your materia when the game is done, of course~), Cait Sith catching up and Aeris leaving.
