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Liberty's favourite waifu.
Has a market value of approximately 4 Touhou girls and a catgirl.
Has a market value of approximately 4 Touhou girls and a catgirl.
Wolf's Gang
This is a sample game created in "RPG Maker MZ" by Caz. As a monster, build up your army to take revenge on the heroes in this classic Fantasy RPG.
This is a sample game created in "RPG Maker MZ" by Caz. As a monster, build up your army to take revenge on the heroes in this classic Fantasy RPG.
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Battling in games, but.. why?
author=calunio
Caz, you clearly don't like games without battles, so just add battles. If you don't think they fit into your game, just make them more abstract, less objective. Like, instead of your characters actually fighting someone, make them battle "math homework" or something. You can replace ordinary real-world tasks with battles that represent something, but are not really fighting.
Of course you could also add a whole lot of other gameplay elements to replace battles (as just removing them would not be a good idea), but you clearly state you don't like those.
I don't dislike games without battles, I actually really enjoy a lot of the ones I've played. I'm just finding it difficult to find an alternative that would still keep the game playable and interesting, while still giving a sense of action and achievement. I think I have a few good ideas now, though, and a lot of this has really helped. I just wasn't comfortable before with the idea that there'd be little to no action involved, but I see and understand now that that's not all there is to it. I was just been moronic and close-minded, and had obviously lost all touch with how to make games at all or even how to enjoy them properly. I was starting to panic that I could come up with a brief story but there'd be nothing enjoyable to drive it.
But this topic has been super helpful, and despite me being a complete 'tard about all this, I'm still thankful to everyone who's given their insight. ^^
Battling in games, but.. why?
It's always seemed backwards to me.. though it's not like I do well either way I try: story first then gameplay, or gameplay first then story. :P
You guys are right, though. My methods are all wrong, and that probably goes to explain why I can't come up with a single idea. I do also throw all of my terrible thought processes in the same basket and never branch out, but that's why I'm here. I'm really quite awkward and find great difficulty in enjoying things, so I also find it difficult to understand why other people would enjoy that thing.. maybe if I branched out a little bit and actually tried other concepts out in my games, I could get actual opinions and stick with good ideas or move on from bad ones. :/ This will have to steer me to change my way of thinking, I believe..
You guys are right, though. My methods are all wrong, and that probably goes to explain why I can't come up with a single idea. I do also throw all of my terrible thought processes in the same basket and never branch out, but that's why I'm here. I'm really quite awkward and find great difficulty in enjoying things, so I also find it difficult to understand why other people would enjoy that thing.. maybe if I branched out a little bit and actually tried other concepts out in my games, I could get actual opinions and stick with good ideas or move on from bad ones. :/ This will have to steer me to change my way of thinking, I believe..
Battling in games, but.. why?
I've played a little bit of Sequence. It was good, but there just wasn't anything really gripping about it. :/ I enjoyed the concept of it though. Guess I just wasn't really in the mood for DDR games at the time.. might give it another shot.
EDIT: Nevermind, according to Steam I've played a whole 25 minutes of it.. ^^;; Goes to show how broad my horizons are. I guess I really am too harsh on games that don't draw me in immediately. Will definitely give it another crack though.
EDIT: Nevermind, according to Steam I've played a whole 25 minutes of it.. ^^;; Goes to show how broad my horizons are. I guess I really am too harsh on games that don't draw me in immediately. Will definitely give it another crack though.
Battling in games, but.. why?
Mwell I don't really have any solid ideas for a story yet because I like to consider the gameplay first. I'm weird and backwards, and think that gameplay is a lot more important than the story (or I would actually read a book or watch a movie to enjoy that story instead).
I was given Drawn to Life as a birthday present a few years back, which.. surprised me, I guess. I didn't like that you had to draw everything or the platformer aspect of it, but I really, really enjoyed that as you progressed, more of the town was unlocked. I like that idea a lot.
Same with Harvest Moon: Island of Happiness (making as many Harvest Moon references as possible because it's probably the least violent game I can think of here). You wash up on a shore after your ship crashes and you have to rebuild. You farm to get money, naturally, and use that money to rebuild the town and unlock new areas.
These styles of gameplay interest me a lot because I feel like I'm actually accomplishing something as I play, or that my interactions make a great difference. I think that's the type of game I'd like to go for.
I was given Drawn to Life as a birthday present a few years back, which.. surprised me, I guess. I didn't like that you had to draw everything or the platformer aspect of it, but I really, really enjoyed that as you progressed, more of the town was unlocked. I like that idea a lot.
Same with Harvest Moon: Island of Happiness (making as many Harvest Moon references as possible because it's probably the least violent game I can think of here). You wash up on a shore after your ship crashes and you have to rebuild. You farm to get money, naturally, and use that money to rebuild the town and unlock new areas.
These styles of gameplay interest me a lot because I feel like I'm actually accomplishing something as I play, or that my interactions make a great difference. I think that's the type of game I'd like to go for.
Battling in games, but.. why?
Well, while that dance game does sound awesome, I think I would rather try that with something else. :P But doesn't everyone hate quicktime events? How are those even done well?
I'm not asking people for WHY fighting is bad and really unoriginal, I just want to know what people think good alternatives are.
I'd really like to make a game where a decent minigame (such as a cardgame as previously mentioned), well-planned out quicktime events or in-depth NPC interaction makes up all of the gameplay. I'm just concerned it would be too boring, in particular the NPC interaction because I'd hate to throw a wall of text at someone and call it gameplay.
As for movies, books, etc.. I don't think the ideas I have are detailed enough to merit turning it into something watchable or readable. They're not complex enough to appear in anything other than being made into game gimmicks.
I think I've gotten a lot of good responses from this though. I didn't realise that so many people actually ENJOYED the sorts of point and click adventures for mystery games and things like that. It's inspiring me to make something, at least. ^^
I don't think they're very violent. I was born and raised on Duke Nukem and Doom though, so.. I guess I do have a bit of an affinity for the more violence-based games. That's not to say I don't enjoy NOT being violent when playing videogames.. :P
I'm not asking people for WHY fighting is bad and really unoriginal, I just want to know what people think good alternatives are.
I'd really like to make a game where a decent minigame (such as a cardgame as previously mentioned), well-planned out quicktime events or in-depth NPC interaction makes up all of the gameplay. I'm just concerned it would be too boring, in particular the NPC interaction because I'd hate to throw a wall of text at someone and call it gameplay.
As for movies, books, etc.. I don't think the ideas I have are detailed enough to merit turning it into something watchable or readable. They're not complex enough to appear in anything other than being made into game gimmicks.
I think I've gotten a lot of good responses from this though. I didn't realise that so many people actually ENJOYED the sorts of point and click adventures for mystery games and things like that. It's inspiring me to make something, at least. ^^
author=Shinan
:(
All those "kids only play violent videogames" were true after all.
I don't think they're very violent. I was born and raised on Duke Nukem and Doom though, so.. I guess I do have a bit of an affinity for the more violence-based games. That's not to say I don't enjoy NOT being violent when playing videogames.. :P
Battling in games, but.. why?
I have played a lot of games without fighting, but that's the thing: I just find a lot of them really boring and give up on them after a while.
I loved the Harvest Moon/Rune Factory series and enjoyed the hell out of them regardless of their lack of fighting (well maybe not RF, but I didn't do much fighting in that anyway). But even they get tiresome after a while because there's only so much of "talk to these people and be nice" I can take.
I loved the Harvest Moon/Rune Factory series and enjoyed the hell out of them regardless of their lack of fighting (well maybe not RF, but I didn't do much fighting in that anyway). But even they get tiresome after a while because there's only so much of "talk to these people and be nice" I can take.
Battling in games, but.. why?
@Craze: Wow, sorry, I didn't mean to enrage you or something. :/ I was only asking perfectly friendly questions about how to make a good game.
I'm just asking if people find it better to have a game with fighting or not. I personally find battles to be great at first but they get annoying later on. I was wondering if it would be better to exclude fighting altogether. I mean, I love actually levelling up as if what I've worked for has made a difference. I would hate to play a game at the exact same level at every point in that game as I was at the start. It doesn't have to be experience based, it could be improved equipment and weaponry or even skills. I just find it incredibly difficult to fit that into certain storylines.
And fights are a giant part of gameplay in loads of games because of that. Even games WITHOUT levelling up like Zelda or the Metroid games are pretty much entirely based around fighting, but there's no levelling because they improve your equipment and abilities instead.
But because they're so heavily based around fighting, I get bored of them easily. And also due to the lack of interesting storyline.
I'm not shoehorning myself, I'm just at a loss for what to do. Is it better to have a game with EXP and levelling up through fighting, or a different way? Is it better to get rid of levelling altogether and just improve equipment? Hell, even things like Harvest Moon manage that. I'm just stuck, that's all. I'm sorry if I made you mad with my apparent idiocy or lack of intelligence.
(As for Persona 4, I personally found it to fit in well. *shrug* Maybe that's just my idea of a good game mechanic mixed with a story, I'm not saying it's for everyone. It was difficult, yes, but I'm fed up of games which are far too easy. Putting the difficult curve aside, because that's not my concern, I found that the whole idea of it and the way in which battles were fought were good.)
EDIT:
@Everyone else: Myeah, I guess I'm mainly stuck in this mindset because I like battling in games so much, and think that it pretty much makes the game for me. I play hardly any games that don't involve fighting of some kind. I would like to make a game where there are no battles, though. I think it would be a much needed break for me.. but definitely a challenge. I just can't get my head out of the idea that a game without fighting isn't any fun. I find it incredibly difficult to imagine a scenario where the player can enjoy themselves while doing something else.
I'm just asking if people find it better to have a game with fighting or not. I personally find battles to be great at first but they get annoying later on. I was wondering if it would be better to exclude fighting altogether. I mean, I love actually levelling up as if what I've worked for has made a difference. I would hate to play a game at the exact same level at every point in that game as I was at the start. It doesn't have to be experience based, it could be improved equipment and weaponry or even skills. I just find it incredibly difficult to fit that into certain storylines.
And fights are a giant part of gameplay in loads of games because of that. Even games WITHOUT levelling up like Zelda or the Metroid games are pretty much entirely based around fighting, but there's no levelling because they improve your equipment and abilities instead.
But because they're so heavily based around fighting, I get bored of them easily. And also due to the lack of interesting storyline.
I'm not shoehorning myself, I'm just at a loss for what to do. Is it better to have a game with EXP and levelling up through fighting, or a different way? Is it better to get rid of levelling altogether and just improve equipment? Hell, even things like Harvest Moon manage that. I'm just stuck, that's all. I'm sorry if I made you mad with my apparent idiocy or lack of intelligence.
(As for Persona 4, I personally found it to fit in well. *shrug* Maybe that's just my idea of a good game mechanic mixed with a story, I'm not saying it's for everyone. It was difficult, yes, but I'm fed up of games which are far too easy. Putting the difficult curve aside, because that's not my concern, I found that the whole idea of it and the way in which battles were fought were good.)
EDIT:
@Everyone else: Myeah, I guess I'm mainly stuck in this mindset because I like battling in games so much, and think that it pretty much makes the game for me. I play hardly any games that don't involve fighting of some kind. I would like to make a game where there are no battles, though. I think it would be a much needed break for me.. but definitely a challenge. I just can't get my head out of the idea that a game without fighting isn't any fun. I find it incredibly difficult to imagine a scenario where the player can enjoy themselves while doing something else.
Battling in games, but.. why?
I guess I'm mainly curious as to whether other people consider the reasons for fighting in their games, and what their reasons (if any) are.
I have a few ideas in my head, but they're mainly gimmicks, not actual stories. But as soon as I think about the gimmick my head explodes into tiny pieces because I try to think, "Okay, where can fighting come into that?" and then headdesk several times.
Gimmick 1 is something along the lines of town restoration. You do something to royally eff up a town through maybe a flood or a fire or something, and then you feel responsible for tidying it up. You then have to urr.. I dunno, save money or something to restore parts of the town which would unlock them and also new shops/awesome stuff. Obviously, it'd take a lot of money so there'd be good choices and bad choices for earning it (eg. charity events vs. robbing a bank). This idea is, of course, full of many holes and I'm not too fond of it anymore due to the whole money-earning aspect of it being so.. well, lame. Probably because of the lack of fighting! :P
Gimmick 2 is stolen from that cheeeeeesy TV show called 'Early Edition' where the guy gets a newspaper every day which tells the news of tomorrow and he has to stop bad things from happening. I figure I'd make it so that the characters receive a weekly paper instead, and you get to choose what to do each week (eg. save neighbour's cat vs. take advantage of broken ATM vs. stop a FIVE CAR PILE-UP vs. sit on your arse and do relatively nothing). But then every now and then there'd be a major "kidnapping" where someone goes missing, and it's up to the party to stop it before it happens. Again, heavily Persona 4 influenced (damn it's a good game).
So I suppose with the latter, the setting would be very much everyday.. save for the whole magical newspaper thing. It's the story of pretty much every anime with "regular kid turns AWESOME with specially granted MAGICAL ABILITIES! Woo!"
And minigames. The word minigames makes me.. ugh. Minigames are rarely done well. :P Although, I did consider a sort of.. FF8-y card game or something, or perhaps more like Yu-Gi-Oh!, really. But I wouldn't have that as the main way of fighting people or standing up for what the characters believe in. It just seems a bit.. childish. As if the hero and villain played chess to settle their differences, and that made everything better. ^^
I have a few ideas in my head, but they're mainly gimmicks, not actual stories. But as soon as I think about the gimmick my head explodes into tiny pieces because I try to think, "Okay, where can fighting come into that?" and then headdesk several times.
Gimmick 1 is something along the lines of town restoration. You do something to royally eff up a town through maybe a flood or a fire or something, and then you feel responsible for tidying it up. You then have to urr.. I dunno, save money or something to restore parts of the town which would unlock them and also new shops/awesome stuff. Obviously, it'd take a lot of money so there'd be good choices and bad choices for earning it (eg. charity events vs. robbing a bank). This idea is, of course, full of many holes and I'm not too fond of it anymore due to the whole money-earning aspect of it being so.. well, lame. Probably because of the lack of fighting! :P
Gimmick 2 is stolen from that cheeeeeesy TV show called 'Early Edition' where the guy gets a newspaper every day which tells the news of tomorrow and he has to stop bad things from happening. I figure I'd make it so that the characters receive a weekly paper instead, and you get to choose what to do each week (eg. save neighbour's cat vs. take advantage of broken ATM vs. stop a FIVE CAR PILE-UP vs. sit on your arse and do relatively nothing). But then every now and then there'd be a major "kidnapping" where someone goes missing, and it's up to the party to stop it before it happens. Again, heavily Persona 4 influenced (damn it's a good game).
So I suppose with the latter, the setting would be very much everyday.. save for the whole magical newspaper thing. It's the story of pretty much every anime with "regular kid turns AWESOME with specially granted MAGICAL ABILITIES! Woo!"
And minigames. The word minigames makes me.. ugh. Minigames are rarely done well. :P Although, I did consider a sort of.. FF8-y card game or something, or perhaps more like Yu-Gi-Oh!, really. But I wouldn't have that as the main way of fighting people or standing up for what the characters believe in. It just seems a bit.. childish. As if the hero and villain played chess to settle their differences, and that made everything better. ^^
Battling in games, but.. why?
I am having a huge amount of trouble lately: I wanna make a game, and I think of this fantastic idea for its storyline and what's gonna happen but then.. where does fighting come into it? SHOULD fighting come into it?
I mean, most successful games include lots of fighting. In particular I wanted a very Persona-esque game where you'd live life through school and do fun stuff, but in your free time go through a dungeon and fight a big boss every now and then. It's pulled off so wonderfully in Persona 4 that it fits into the story seamlessly.
When it comes to my own ideas after that, I struggle to think of a reason why the party would be fighting at all, particularly in such a modern setting as with the Persona games.
But should there even be fighting in the game? Especially as it IS set in a modern world, where much fighting doesn't really happen anymore. Would that be less fun or awesome if there was no fighting at all? What would your party do instead to level up/have fun/save the world?
Would Persona have been less fun if you didn't fight? Or even the Final Fantasy games? Are their reasons for going out and KILLING things good enough? Are their reasons for monsters even appearing in the world good enough? What other games are there with no fighting, where the character still does something in order to gain experience?
Give me your delicious thoughts.
I mean, most successful games include lots of fighting. In particular I wanted a very Persona-esque game where you'd live life through school and do fun stuff, but in your free time go through a dungeon and fight a big boss every now and then. It's pulled off so wonderfully in Persona 4 that it fits into the story seamlessly.
When it comes to my own ideas after that, I struggle to think of a reason why the party would be fighting at all, particularly in such a modern setting as with the Persona games.
But should there even be fighting in the game? Especially as it IS set in a modern world, where much fighting doesn't really happen anymore. Would that be less fun or awesome if there was no fighting at all? What would your party do instead to level up/have fun/save the world?
Would Persona have been less fun if you didn't fight? Or even the Final Fantasy games? Are their reasons for going out and KILLING things good enough? Are their reasons for monsters even appearing in the world good enough? What other games are there with no fighting, where the character still does something in order to gain experience?
Give me your delicious thoughts.
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