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Hi, I'm OldPat, an italian indie game developer. I'm trying to improve as much as I can, hoping to reach a professional level one day.
I also like to draw a lot and that's another of the fields I'm trying to improve. My English is still a bit bad, so I hope you'll forgive me if I make any mistakes.^^'
I also like to draw a lot and that's another of the fields I'm trying to improve. My English is still a bit bad, so I hope you'll forgive me if I make any mistakes.^^'
Karma Flow - The Prototy...
A Short 2D Noir Open-Stealth game. "Florien Kealborn is ready to do anything for her own family, even challenge Karma itself."
A Short 2D Noir Open-Stealth game. "Florien Kealborn is ready to do anything for her own family, even challenge Karma itself."
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Not Sure if anyone's noticed...
@pianotm: I HAVE FANS? *_* WHEREEEEEE?
I think everyone can share their thoughts on a game after playing it. You don't need to be a developer, a professional or whatever to realize what works and what doesn't work in a game. In this particular case, though, in this community, the majority of people are developers.
Corfaisus and Piano, you both shared a correct definition of a review. A summarize of the game's various aspects, while highlighting its pros and cons. Criticism will be always found in a review, even for masterpieces!
I consider the Metal Gear Saga a masterpiece, yet you can always found reviews on the Internet which criticizes the saga overabundance of cutscenes, of craziness, of self-referentiality... and yet it's one of the best saga on the market.
When talking about "masterpiece games" though, it's always a bit of a subjective matter. I think Metal Gear Solid 3 is a masterpiece, a lot of people think it's garbage\not that good\good but definitely not a masterpiece. And when they point out the game's flaws, well, they're not making them up. MGS has its flaws, and reviews pointed them out. It's up to the player whether they like the pros so much to not even notice its cons or the other way around.
Bound also is an indie game with stunning visual art, yet boring gameplay. And it's considered art, a masterpiece. Yet, a lot of people will surely dislike it for various reason, like its boring gameplay.
Professional reviews are mostly made to make the players aware of those things. "Good game, but expect lot of cutscenes", "The visual art is stunning, but damn that gameplay is boring as shit". Criticism will always be found on reviews, even for good games.
Reviews on RMN.net differ because while those exist for the same reason as professional ones, those are also meant to help the developer notice stuff he might've missed\got totally wrong. We're not Activision or Ubisoft. We are here, we can communicate directly with the reviewer and viceversa. This is a community of developers helping each other making games.
What's done is done you say Corfaisus. And you're right, yeah. You can't fix certain aspects of that game once it's finished and released. Though, you could take that criticism into consideration in order to avoid that kind of flaws for future games.
When it comes to designing a game, you're bound to fail really often. But sometimes, you can't see it for yourself because it's... it's like drawing, no? You draw your own original character, but you're not developed enough to notice that, I dunno, you made that characters' legs waaaaay too long, or his eyes way too far apart. In this case, it's useful to have feedback from others. You can't fix those things because maybe you've already inked that artwork, but at least you'll be much more careful in the future with your other drawings.
It's up to the developer, though, to analyze reviews\feedbacks in order to see whether they need to fix certain aspects that the reviewer didn't like or if those aspects are fine the way they are. As I said, MGS was criticized for its long cutscenes, yet a lot of people (like me) like those a lot and would never ask Kojima and people to go easy on those.
(I think Jim with that video Red_Nova posted makes a better example of "what can be done when criticism is taken into consideration". That video alone speaks for the whole matter.)
And... damn you guys write so fast. xD Is the discussion over? Did I, ehrm... did my comment served any purpose or am I just talking about things you've already stated?
:S
If so, ehrm. Sorry. *car engine sound effect*
I think everyone can share their thoughts on a game after playing it. You don't need to be a developer, a professional or whatever to realize what works and what doesn't work in a game. In this particular case, though, in this community, the majority of people are developers.
Corfaisus and Piano, you both shared a correct definition of a review. A summarize of the game's various aspects, while highlighting its pros and cons. Criticism will be always found in a review, even for masterpieces!
I consider the Metal Gear Saga a masterpiece, yet you can always found reviews on the Internet which criticizes the saga overabundance of cutscenes, of craziness, of self-referentiality... and yet it's one of the best saga on the market.
When talking about "masterpiece games" though, it's always a bit of a subjective matter. I think Metal Gear Solid 3 is a masterpiece, a lot of people think it's garbage\not that good\good but definitely not a masterpiece. And when they point out the game's flaws, well, they're not making them up. MGS has its flaws, and reviews pointed them out. It's up to the player whether they like the pros so much to not even notice its cons or the other way around.
Bound also is an indie game with stunning visual art, yet boring gameplay. And it's considered art, a masterpiece. Yet, a lot of people will surely dislike it for various reason, like its boring gameplay.
Professional reviews are mostly made to make the players aware of those things. "Good game, but expect lot of cutscenes", "The visual art is stunning, but damn that gameplay is boring as shit". Criticism will always be found on reviews, even for good games.
Reviews on RMN.net differ because while those exist for the same reason as professional ones, those are also meant to help the developer notice stuff he might've missed\got totally wrong. We're not Activision or Ubisoft. We are here, we can communicate directly with the reviewer and viceversa. This is a community of developers helping each other making games.
What's done is done you say Corfaisus. And you're right, yeah. You can't fix certain aspects of that game once it's finished and released. Though, you could take that criticism into consideration in order to avoid that kind of flaws for future games.
When it comes to designing a game, you're bound to fail really often. But sometimes, you can't see it for yourself because it's... it's like drawing, no? You draw your own original character, but you're not developed enough to notice that, I dunno, you made that characters' legs waaaaay too long, or his eyes way too far apart. In this case, it's useful to have feedback from others. You can't fix those things because maybe you've already inked that artwork, but at least you'll be much more careful in the future with your other drawings.
It's up to the developer, though, to analyze reviews\feedbacks in order to see whether they need to fix certain aspects that the reviewer didn't like or if those aspects are fine the way they are. As I said, MGS was criticized for its long cutscenes, yet a lot of people (like me) like those a lot and would never ask Kojima and people to go easy on those.
(I think Jim with that video Red_Nova posted makes a better example of "what can be done when criticism is taken into consideration". That video alone speaks for the whole matter.)
And... damn you guys write so fast. xD Is the discussion over? Did I, ehrm... did my comment served any purpose or am I just talking about things you've already stated?
:S
If so, ehrm. Sorry. *car engine sound effect*
Not Sure if anyone's noticed...
Admitting Defeat - When A Videogame Breaks Your Spirit
The ones I remember from recent times are Risen 1, Risen 3 and Jojo Eyes of Heaven.
It's even worst to see things like this in games like the Risen saga. It's a saga made for a niche audience, but that wanted to appeal to everyone, without really pleasing anyone because it's an hardcore game filled with things like... this tutorial for final bosses, simplistic mechanics and such. It's bad when a game can't shape up it's own identity.
There are more games like that and not only when it comes to giving tutorial at final boss battles. They'll come back to me and I'll be sure to... rant about them a bit when they do. xD No, well, I don't think this is the place to do that.
It's even worst to see things like this in games like the Risen saga. It's a saga made for a niche audience, but that wanted to appeal to everyone, without really pleasing anyone because it's an hardcore game filled with things like... this tutorial for final bosses, simplistic mechanics and such. It's bad when a game can't shape up it's own identity.
There are more games like that and not only when it comes to giving tutorial at final boss battles. They'll come back to me and I'll be sure to... rant about them a bit when they do. xD No, well, I don't think this is the place to do that.
What Videogames Are You Playing Right Now?
Admitting Defeat - When A Videogame Breaks Your Spirit
Well, yeah. It's true that is not a bad thing to have games that are easy to beat.
It all comes down to what kind of games you like and, as you said, the time you can invest on those. I was just saying that Dark Souls' difficulty level is simply "challenging". It's not impossible to beat, it's not hell on Earth, it's just that the player, as you said, needs the time to understand how it works. Nothing new.
I like challenging games, but of course I also play and enjoy a lot of games which are not hard or challenging at all but have other good qualities. There's a lot of variety, every game has its own scope. There are games made for players who are willing to invest a lot of their time on them and games made to be played and finished without too much of an effort, like you said. And that's a good thing.
Although, yeah, I do believe some games are... WAY too easy, but mostly because of some faults in their design. Easy in a bad way.
For example, I remember I played two games lately which had a tutorial for their final boss fight.
Tutorial. On final boss fights.
Needless to say, I defeated those bosses without a sweat... because the game downright told me how to beat them.
Now, when I see things like this I can't help but think that something went horribly wrong during the design process of that game.
It's bad game design for me. I should figure out by myself how to handle situations like these. Whether it turns out to be easy to do or not it's fine.
But even if the boss itself would've turned out to be easy to defeat, at least it would've given me the feeling of having accomplished something on my own. A text telling me what to do doesn't give me satisfaction. And, imho, this is a requirement that can't be missing in a game.
As for the rest, I totally agree with you, Hexatona.
And, I will never stop saying this but please, forgive my bad English if you can (I'm sure I made some mistakes here and there)^^'. It's always difficult for me to properly explain myself.
It all comes down to what kind of games you like and, as you said, the time you can invest on those. I was just saying that Dark Souls' difficulty level is simply "challenging". It's not impossible to beat, it's not hell on Earth, it's just that the player, as you said, needs the time to understand how it works. Nothing new.
I like challenging games, but of course I also play and enjoy a lot of games which are not hard or challenging at all but have other good qualities. There's a lot of variety, every game has its own scope. There are games made for players who are willing to invest a lot of their time on them and games made to be played and finished without too much of an effort, like you said. And that's a good thing.
Although, yeah, I do believe some games are... WAY too easy, but mostly because of some faults in their design. Easy in a bad way.
For example, I remember I played two games lately which had a tutorial for their final boss fight.
Tutorial. On final boss fights.
Needless to say, I defeated those bosses without a sweat... because the game downright told me how to beat them.
Now, when I see things like this I can't help but think that something went horribly wrong during the design process of that game.
It's bad game design for me. I should figure out by myself how to handle situations like these. Whether it turns out to be easy to do or not it's fine.
But even if the boss itself would've turned out to be easy to defeat, at least it would've given me the feeling of having accomplished something on my own. A text telling me what to do doesn't give me satisfaction. And, imho, this is a requirement that can't be missing in a game.
As for the rest, I totally agree with you, Hexatona.
And, I will never stop saying this but please, forgive my bad English if you can (I'm sure I made some mistakes here and there)^^'. It's always difficult for me to properly explain myself.
Not Sure if anyone's noticed...
(Sorry for my probably bad English from here on out, ehrm).
I can understand that criticisms may be hard to accept. Making a game is no easy task. It is one of the hardest and most time consuming hobby, and most of us make games on our own so... game making requires a lot of work in a lot of fields. It takes time and effort for even the smallest map. I think we game makers are like, mythological beasts or something. How the heck can we go on with this hobby and say "yeah, it's normal, I can do that and still have a life". We're not normal at all, we are a crazy bunch, aaaaah.
... Ehrm, the point being:
Bulma, it's hard to accept criticism, but they are crucial in a developer's own personal quest to become the greatest mythological game making beast of all time. I think games that are made with a certain passion and that required a lot of work are the one that should be analyzed better for criticism. Because you can see that the developer loves what he's doing and wants to be better at it and lending criticism, suggestions or whatever to him it's like helping him in trying to become a kick-ass game maker. And it's beautiful when this happens, because you can see that there's someone that knows you can do better than that, wants to invest his time giving you his impressions, and wants to help you see what can be improved, what you exactly did wrong.
Like Pianotm said, it's like the most respectful thing you can do for that developer. Instead of just passing by, saying "Yeah, yeah, you did good. Here, have a cookie".
Let's face it, though. RPG Maker is one of the most simple engine out there, even a monkey could make a game out of it. So it's only natural that you get a lot of garbage together with very good games. Yeah, I know, that's not the only engine the community takes into consideration (and I know TTL was made with Unity3D, I'm generalizing (Is it correct to say "generalizing" in this sentence? Yeah? Yeah.)), but it's the main focus. Now, I don't think that garbage games deserve to be criticized more than good ones do. Because when something is utter garbage, it's difficult to say something more elaborate then "Ehrm, you may... want to try... like, better luck next time, okay? Byeeee *Car engine sound effect*"
No, the point is: I don't see why good games should not be criticized and garbage one should.
When a game is good, and YOU KNOW the author can do better than that... why not just tell him? Why not just help him realize what he did wrong?
Let's say you're having dinner with your friend at a restaurant. He smiles for a second and you can see a piece of salad stuck between his teeth. Now, you can tell him that right away. You know he may feel embarassed by that, but at least he'll take it off. If you decide not to tell him, he will exit the restaurant, see two hot chicks passing by and then he will smile at them revealing the horror of having a piece of salad stuck between his teeth. And the chicks would be like "EW!" and just go on ignoring him. And maybe, if you just told him about that piece of salad, he might have been able to score that night. You prevented your friend from scoring two hot chicks. Like... can you live with that?
... moving on.
Reviews are time consuming tasks too. Playing a game, analyzing it and then writing a grammatically correct review are things that take away a lot of your time. And we're a community that mostly consists of developers that could go on with their own projects instead of making a review for you.
I don't understand why someone should hate on a reviewer that simply did his job, providing a full analysis of what he played. I'm not saying that criticisms should be accepted by default. Reviewers tend to stay objective, but it is possible that a review may involve a lot of subjectivity. It's good to analyze the review itself and see what can be taken into consideration and what not when trying to improve as a game maker or as an artist in general.
But you should never,
never,
ever,
be a jerk to a reviewer or whoever gives their impressions to you about your game, because they dedicate THEIR time for YOUR project in a community with a lot, A LOT of other games. And you can bet your ass that there may be games among them that can eat yours for breakfast.
I mean, being a jerk to a reviewer for his review it's not so different from being a jerk to someone who spent his time making a game.
Not that someone is being a jerk to someone else here, in this particular case. I'm just... exaggerating to make a point.
When releasing a game, you should always be ready for criticism. Because they will come, even if you put a lot of effort into your game, even if it's good... they will come. And there will be any sort of criticism. Harsh one, constructive one, "Destructive" one. And I can assure you that they should be all taken into consideration.
I knew a guy that was kind of a jerk to me. He always criticized my games in order to "drive me crazy". xD I think there was some good things in my old games, but he always found faults and emphasized them.
But... he didn't made them up, they existed. He simply emphasized them. So in my next game, that I made after the one he criticized with a lot of passion, I worked in order to deliver something without those faults. Without even realizing it... I've improved. And he couldn't say a thing because those faults weren't there anymore. I mean, he eventually found other things to complain about but...
as hard as it was to accept, I improved because of that bastard.
So you know, harsh criticism, destructive ones... they can be much more useful than you can think.
Of course, I don't think everyone should be like that jerk that criticized me. I prefer constructive feedback over "I want to be a jerk gne" feedback.
One should respect the developer as much as the developer should respect his audience.
I couldn't read the review NTC3 wrote for The Tenth Line. But yeah, saying that a game feel disjointed for me it's vastly different from saying "That game is utter crap".
And I realize that... this last paragraph is the only thing in my entire post to be somehow "in-topic". S-sorry for this sort of "random thoughts".^^'
I can understand that criticisms may be hard to accept. Making a game is no easy task. It is one of the hardest and most time consuming hobby, and most of us make games on our own so... game making requires a lot of work in a lot of fields. It takes time and effort for even the smallest map. I think we game makers are like, mythological beasts or something. How the heck can we go on with this hobby and say "yeah, it's normal, I can do that and still have a life". We're not normal at all, we are a crazy bunch, aaaaah.
... Ehrm, the point being:
Bulma, it's hard to accept criticism, but they are crucial in a developer's own personal quest to become the greatest mythological game making beast of all time. I think games that are made with a certain passion and that required a lot of work are the one that should be analyzed better for criticism. Because you can see that the developer loves what he's doing and wants to be better at it and lending criticism, suggestions or whatever to him it's like helping him in trying to become a kick-ass game maker. And it's beautiful when this happens, because you can see that there's someone that knows you can do better than that, wants to invest his time giving you his impressions, and wants to help you see what can be improved, what you exactly did wrong.
Like Pianotm said, it's like the most respectful thing you can do for that developer. Instead of just passing by, saying "Yeah, yeah, you did good. Here, have a cookie".
Let's face it, though. RPG Maker is one of the most simple engine out there, even a monkey could make a game out of it. So it's only natural that you get a lot of garbage together with very good games. Yeah, I know, that's not the only engine the community takes into consideration (and I know TTL was made with Unity3D, I'm generalizing (Is it correct to say "generalizing" in this sentence? Yeah? Yeah.)), but it's the main focus. Now, I don't think that garbage games deserve to be criticized more than good ones do. Because when something is utter garbage, it's difficult to say something more elaborate then "Ehrm, you may... want to try... like, better luck next time, okay? Byeeee *Car engine sound effect*"
No, the point is: I don't see why good games should not be criticized and garbage one should.
When a game is good, and YOU KNOW the author can do better than that... why not just tell him? Why not just help him realize what he did wrong?
Let's say you're having dinner with your friend at a restaurant. He smiles for a second and you can see a piece of salad stuck between his teeth. Now, you can tell him that right away. You know he may feel embarassed by that, but at least he'll take it off. If you decide not to tell him, he will exit the restaurant, see two hot chicks passing by and then he will smile at them revealing the horror of having a piece of salad stuck between his teeth. And the chicks would be like "EW!" and just go on ignoring him. And maybe, if you just told him about that piece of salad, he might have been able to score that night. You prevented your friend from scoring two hot chicks. Like... can you live with that?
... moving on.
Reviews are time consuming tasks too. Playing a game, analyzing it and then writing a grammatically correct review are things that take away a lot of your time. And we're a community that mostly consists of developers that could go on with their own projects instead of making a review for you.
I don't understand why someone should hate on a reviewer that simply did his job, providing a full analysis of what he played. I'm not saying that criticisms should be accepted by default. Reviewers tend to stay objective, but it is possible that a review may involve a lot of subjectivity. It's good to analyze the review itself and see what can be taken into consideration and what not when trying to improve as a game maker or as an artist in general.
But you should never,
never,
ever,
be a jerk to a reviewer or whoever gives their impressions to you about your game, because they dedicate THEIR time for YOUR project in a community with a lot, A LOT of other games. And you can bet your ass that there may be games among them that can eat yours for breakfast.
I mean, being a jerk to a reviewer for his review it's not so different from being a jerk to someone who spent his time making a game.
Not that someone is being a jerk to someone else here, in this particular case. I'm just... exaggerating to make a point.
When releasing a game, you should always be ready for criticism. Because they will come, even if you put a lot of effort into your game, even if it's good... they will come. And there will be any sort of criticism. Harsh one, constructive one, "Destructive" one. And I can assure you that they should be all taken into consideration.
I knew a guy that was kind of a jerk to me. He always criticized my games in order to "drive me crazy". xD I think there was some good things in my old games, but he always found faults and emphasized them.
But... he didn't made them up, they existed. He simply emphasized them. So in my next game, that I made after the one he criticized with a lot of passion, I worked in order to deliver something without those faults. Without even realizing it... I've improved. And he couldn't say a thing because those faults weren't there anymore. I mean, he eventually found other things to complain about but...
as hard as it was to accept, I improved because of that bastard.
So you know, harsh criticism, destructive ones... they can be much more useful than you can think.
Of course, I don't think everyone should be like that jerk that criticized me. I prefer constructive feedback over "I want to be a jerk gne" feedback.
One should respect the developer as much as the developer should respect his audience.
I couldn't read the review NTC3 wrote for The Tenth Line. But yeah, saying that a game feel disjointed for me it's vastly different from saying "That game is utter crap".
And I realize that... this last paragraph is the only thing in my entire post to be somehow "in-topic". S-sorry for this sort of "random thoughts".^^'
Hello (and one question)
Welcome, Travel!
As the others have already said, MV is the only RPG Maker tool which officially supports multi-platform distribution, so you may find some games made with that tool that can be played on your android tablet. You can also find interpreters like EasyRPG which will make 2k/2k3 games playable on other platforms. But bear in mind that 2k/2k3 games are designed to work on PC only, so interpreters like this one are not guaranteed to work with every single game. Like, I don't think they can fully support heavy-customized ones (for example, 2k3 games which heavily relies on DynRPG and its external plugins).
(Although I still have to try out the latest version of EasyRPG to see for myself how much it has been improved. Last version I tried was from soooooo long ago.)
As the others have already said, MV is the only RPG Maker tool which officially supports multi-platform distribution, so you may find some games made with that tool that can be played on your android tablet. You can also find interpreters like EasyRPG which will make 2k/2k3 games playable on other platforms. But bear in mind that 2k/2k3 games are designed to work on PC only, so interpreters like this one are not guaranteed to work with every single game. Like, I don't think they can fully support heavy-customized ones (for example, 2k3 games which heavily relies on DynRPG and its external plugins).
(Although I still have to try out the latest version of EasyRPG to see for myself how much it has been improved. Last version I tried was from soooooo long ago.)
(strikes a pose) HIYA
Pocket Quest! Review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU
xD
Really nice review, Addit! It basically covers up every facet of the game and your impressions are mostly similiar to mine.
Although I don't think some kind of coop\multiplayer could find its way in a game like this.
Yeah, sure, it's a board game, but it's certainly shaped up to be a single player experience all the way to its core. I wouldn't know how a coop play could work on a game like this, considering it's also a jRPG game. I wouldn't see that as one of the "cons", as it's not a missing feature that should've been there, but something that would've been a "plus". Not that this affected the game's overall score in any way, I suppose. So it's fine.
It would've been nice to make the combat a little more complex by having us control Uzu and having her and Nono complement each other in a more... "tactical" sort-of way? But the game clearly wants us to experience everything through the eyes of Nono and that's okay. I enjoyed the combat system and its progression system a lot.
Anyway, for me Pocket Quest! is a "beast" of a game. Complex, entertaining and original. A good example of what can be done with RPG Maker 2k3 if you know what you're doing.
I'm happy to see the game bein' well received. This guy spent seven years of his life in order to make this, let's appreciate his hard work! :D
Good work, Testament! And congrats Addit for your detailed review!
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