TOASTER_TEAM'S PROFILE

Only Pan will be getting upgrades. Things would get too out of hand if secondary characters would also get upgrades.

@Liberty:

author=Toaster Team
I might be. I just wanted to put it out there so to speak. Just thanks for reading. Personally I don't care about it and other people seem very attached about it so you might as well keep it. I'm just glad that you're open to new ideas.

author=Toaster Team
Again, what I want is secondary, it's what the majority wants which is important.

Did you read that?

@Link_2112:

You are assuming an awful lot my friend :).

As for the majority who wants MS. I don't think majority is even an accurate word. I've never heard anybody actually make such a case against having MS or want to have it removed.(1) Everybody likes MS and it's become part of the site culture . It's something different from other sites. We don't need every site working the same way (2).

Assumption number one:
What I don't see doesn't exist. If link_2112 has never read anything about being against MS score therefore no one is against it. I disagree with this reasoning and see it as flawed. Correct me if I'm wrong but the vast majority of users at RMN aren't actually the vocal ones. Besides, I don't so I guess that takes everybody out of the picture.

Assumption number two:
Removing MS would mean that the site would work the same way as other websites. In my opinion, levels, post counts etc... is pretty common around website. In fact, having none of those levels, post counts, ms etc... would actually be unique (again, correct me if I'm wrong but that would be very unique). The very opposite of what you're saying.

(3) & (4) You've only been around for a short time and yet you make all these arguments based on things that aren't happening. Discrimination? "Knowing" who has made submissions? Yes, you can see a name attached to a single submission, but you would have to spend time investigating just what else that person submitted. Whereas looking at their MS is an instant indication of the sheer amount of things they submitted.

Assumption number three:
You've only been there a short time (which also includes the total guess as to how long I've been around which in this case is more a random guess than an assumption really). Define "a short time". If by a short time you mean the pre-jericho period (the dark ages of RMN), being present during the YDS clique system, when Holbert came around to save RMN when doomsday is "a short time", I'd like to know what you mean by a long time. So no. I haven't been around for a short time. Keep in mind that we can be around a website without actively posting, you know... lurking.

Assumption number four:
You need to be around for a long time to give feedback about a website: Again, disagreed. Actually, new members offer a new perspective which more veteran members might not have.

Whereas looking at their MS is an instant indication of the sheer amount of things they submitted

Does it matter? How does it matter to you? Fame? Recognition? Explain it to me. Help me understand your point of view.

It's an inside joke that MS is life, and yet it sort of is. I take part in community games just to get the MS. I have fun doing it, but it actually does give me incentive to do stuff. We have a monthly posting of all stats like post count and literally everything else. It's fun to keep count and see where we all stand and see how we are becoming more active. It's all an exercise in community building, really.

That's fine. It matters to you. It doesn't matter to me. You're entitled to your opinion and care about things like that. I'm entitled not to.

It's fine if you don't feel that way but I would suggest being a more active member of the site for many years before you start suggesting such paradigm shifting ideas. (5)It doesn't bode well for everybody who has assimilated MS into their soul. (6) Please don't ask to abolish game pages and go back to forums ;) and (7) please lighten up. People like to joke around and you are all business, taking every comment super serious as a threat to your personal liberty to express an opinion.

(5):Everybody is afraid of change, it's a natural response. People feel threatened by it (I do too!). That's why when someone suggests change people are quick to bare their teeth.

(6): You know I've never suggested this.

(7): 0__o'

...

Have you been reading the same thread I have?

But yeah if MS is your hill to die on, don't let the door hit you on the way out, mang.

There are some expletives I would like to say to this basically starting with Fuck and ending in Off.

Dude why are you on this site in the first place if you hate its foundations?!

People like to joke around? I need to lighten up? Now, like I said I don't mind what's been said, I like both Sooz and Liberty but that you would conclude that I'm the one who needs to lighten up pretty much blew my mind I have to say :D.

But Meatboy have you restart at a check point. Pan restart near the ledge where you fell. I'm trying to find a way to have him reappear without the player falling into water again by pressing forward.

kentona
but anywho the whole 'IF U DONT LIKE IT U CAN FEK OFF!' response isn't helpful or warranted.

I suddenly like you quite a bit, sir. I'm glad you're taking a stance against this kind of response which discourages suggestions and feedback coming from the community.

To imply that not agreeing with the MS means not appreciating RMN would be very misleading. It would be to imply that RMN = MS when, in fact, it's so much more. Sooz has mentioned suffering from depression and having been there myself, I know you end up doing things which you don't really mean to do but are just too unhappy to have control over. So all she needs is understanding, not being judged. I just ignore messages like this in general.

The reason why I didn't this time around is because any community needs to have the right for its members to express opinions. I have never tried to silence anyone who expressed their point of view on just about anything. I think I deserve the same privilege.

The problem with wanting to squash opinions which suggest change, is that you take for granted that improvement is no longer possible and that status quo is the only possibility. As Kentona mentioned, saying to someone to "fuck off" isn't even an argument, it's just plain animosity which really serves no purpose.

Makerscore isn't necessary, but it does make it more fun! It is a measure of how much you've contributed to the content of the site. It's better than 'post count' and more meaningful than Steam Levels. You can liken it to experience points in an RPG... which kind of fits with rpgmaker network. I would need a better reason than 'I don't understand it' and 'it's not necessary' to scrap it.

I disagree with the logic here and I'll tell you why.

Let's say you have option A, B and C.

A. MS
B. Post count
C. Steam levels

A is justified as being the best choice over B and C. The reason I disagree with this reasoning is that we take for granted that A, B and C are the only options. So yes, by comparison to two poor alternatives, A does seem like the best choice. This doesn't mean it's the only possible best option however.

I personally think that all three are useless. What I don't understand isn't how MS works (it's very simple). It's the need to display it. So apologies if I didn't phrase this correctly.

I know who contributes to the website, their username is next to their contributions. Most importantly, people who contribute to the website certainly know how they've contributed to the website, they were the ones that did it.

How are levels, post counts or general numbers necessary? Technically, they *are* useless in the very basic definition of the word. So what if Sated has 7843 under his username? Will I start treating him differently than if it were 5433? Of course not. In my opinion, it's just a pointless little attachment which doesn't hold any real value.

Why? Simply because the amount awarded in MS is completely random. Some things add more than others and that amount is randomly determined. So the total amount of MS doesn't represent anything.

If people *really* need to show to other people what they've done, if they really need badges and trophies and other artificial self-values, then badges would be sufficient and a lot more representative. A certain badge after x reviews, if your game is featured etc... Even then, I find the whole exercise futile but if this the majority want, then that would be the right decision. Again, what I want is secondary, it's what the majority wants which is important.

I think that this MS "score" just create unnecessary discrimination (positive or negative). Oh, this person has 0 MS, this must mean he doesn't do anything for the community, what an asshole. Oh my Kentona has 1490984504860 MS, he must be like god around here. I prefer interactions which go without those types of tags and the preconceived notions that go along with it. If I could, I would rather remain at 0 MS indefinitely, regardless of what I "win" or contribute to the website. I don't need this type of gratification. This type of gratification isn't what RMN is first and foremost about anyway.

I hope I've explained why I think is useless clearly. I don't think it'll matter in the end simply because I think the vast majority will prefer to keep such score but it's always important to hear the voice of the minority, no matter how quiet it is.

@NTC3: You misunderstood my logic. Your starting point being misconceived, the rest of your reasoning becomes besides the point. My logic isn't to simply stick to written reviews. I think I've clearly explain why.

Go and check how Eurogamer rates games and come back afterwards. You'll get a much better idea of what I'm talking about.

In a small community, where a couple of scores make a big difference to the average, we shouldn't be encouraging people to leave ratings without having to justify them. On Steam it's okay because games get thousands of ratings and they tend to balance out to something representing a "correct" score, but that's not always going to be the case here. Maybe for the really big titles, but not for most of them.

I also think that reviews need to justify their "rating", I just believe there are better (read: more demonstrative) ways to rate games than 1 to 5 stars.