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Challenging the Standards

A scene pass engine? If you don't want to play games that have storyline segments and scenes etc. then why are you playing RPGs?


1-There a lot of cRPG that aren't focused in history, existint only for gameplay. A lot clasics where like this, even in 16 bits era. Roguelikes, MMORPG, dungeon crawlers, SaGa, etc.. the first and original were pure gameplay, like any other genre.

2-I play RPG because i like their gameplay, that i feel like and strategic adventure, also i like good historys, but i found good historys in a lot of places and genres nowadays. I think that RPG have more to offer other than scenes, i feel that a lot of people think that RPG are a genre that its no fun without history(and they just go through gameplay to view next scene), but i dont think the same.

3-The scene pass engine have a lot of utilites. If you don't care of history and get boring, you can just go to the action. Also, when you were dead, or replaying a game for improving your skills, the scenes and unforgatable dialogue are boring.

Well yeah, if there is no story, I feel like I am from our world just visiting another world for fun, like a tourist or like the guys in the old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon, and I hate that concept. I want to identify with a character who is born and has lived always in that world, so I can feel more like part of it. This also gives me a long term objective to look forward rather than just getting stronger (this actually works for MMOs since I do have ppl to compete or friends to protect).
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RPG Mechanics II : Unique Action Command Theory

¿You never tryed to balance your party combining materia, limit breaks, equipment and character stadistics?

Yes, in FFVII you can make all the characters the same, BUT its no the optimal strategy, you will lose a lot of eficiency in combat and have to work for extra money/ap/exp.

This is the idea of the system. Maybe the problem was yours, that didnt understand it. I think the main error of FFVII was the low challenge, that alows you to finish the game without knwowing nothing about the system. But lol, try playing some special challengue, and then talk me if you use the characters as a clones.

Just try playing it thinking at every moment, in what moment the best option its to have clones???

Challenging the Standards

Challenging the Standards

Sorry but we have different looks at videogames and rpg. I like good historys, but i like more rpg tipical gameplay. I suppose that you are the type of people that hates random encounter and clasic rpg schemes, and you cannot play games like FFI or a roguelike for example, where dont exist any story, all its aleatory. Nowadays a lot of people have this vision, but i just dont like it.

With this in mind all you are talking for me is simply meaninless, i dont care of that things, but i think your game will boring for me, too slow gameplay rithm and narrative, more like a movie/book than a videogame.

I think a game its for playing. And that all must serve to this. The coherence have to the begin with the gameplay, not with the history, because this is a interactive medium.

pd: A key for your game:(if you wnat that people like me can play it) make a scene pass engine, that with a button you can pass through all scenes quick.

Challenging the Standards

I agree in some things...but. Look at what you say about the Iron Sword. Yeah, i didnt like games like FFIV where de equipment was stupid, but this dont mean that its incoherence hurted immersion.

It simply: We dont need(and normally dont want) to read, or know, all the information, all the relations, real rules of your world. A lot of things are assumed by the player to make the things direct and easy. Yes, the "Iron Sword" is a short formula to describe why this sword is better, in a mode well known. Nothing more, and nothing less. And nothing bad.

All the games and genres uses things like this. In RPG's like Morrowind you get "normal X, better X, etc X" well, its an other formula, but the system its the same, just that in games like DQ or FF they created a scale of power of the materials for their arms.

Also the same with the Geopolotics. A videogame its different than a novel or some movies. Many times we dont want to know all, and many others we will know it with the protagonist perspective. My original project have a lot of this, geopolitics, legends, mites, i have registered more than 20 wars and what happened in them, but im not going to put most of that things in the game, because i think a game assumes a lot of things for the gameplay and its never like book or movie (maybe i will put the original texts as extras). Gameplay rithm.

Cutscenes that contradict, i suppose that you talk about things like FFVII Aerith dead. Well, in this case its the same thing, when you are playing a reality abstraction like is a crpg this things simply are normal, people that play this games assumes that its all symbolic. I thing a lot of people have done the joke with aeris and a Phoneix Down, but its only a joke, its assumed that the logical of any game its like this.

I liked that from PSIV, the robots that need special items and their equipment, but was a general idea of the history, you cant do this with all. And the stores that sell incoherent things, its the same idea, i never look this at coherence terms, only gameplay terms. I think its you that have some fixation with realism...

Sure you like games like Ultima, TES or fallout, no?

RPG Mechanics II : Unique Action Command Theory

I use unique comands, and all characters are specialitzed in their combat role and moveset. I always balance it, even characters combinations.

Anyway, now i have 3 projects, but they are not exactly the same in this type.

1-Its 95% like this, each character is special.
2-55%, grat flexibility and comon movesets and options, but such unique options.
3-5%, its something like FFVIII or V, with total flexibility.

I dont think any of the three its better that the other. The thing it matters its that its fun and well designed, they are just only diverse styles og gameplay.

Challenging the Standards

Sure immersion its an important thing, but i have played a lot of RPG, through more than 20 years of their history, and never i have think that finding a chest or a enemy gold have unplugged me from that. They are gameplay elements, nothing more, ¿pressing a button of your pad unplugged you? Its the same thing, if you want total reality, just buy a real sword and start to be a real hero.

Think that RPG are the more simbolic genre, ¿what about the map and the minicharacter? ¿the simbolic localitzations? ¿all the menu and turn-based system? ¿the stadistics? In a RPG we don't control directly ANYTHING, all its donde with a indirect control on stadistics and strategic system. The genre its incoherent to the roots. I repeat is a good idea to add coherence with gameplay like some games do, because it will enhance immersion, but nothing more, at least for me.

I find more interesting for the player thinking how to make a better gameplay than trying to make a coherent game with this roots.



Challenging the Standards

In all videogames, specially RPG's, ALL is simbolic. The logic and reality may have some importance in some moments, but i thinks its "stupid" to think in gameplay elements with the idea of drastical coherence in mind: The gameplay don't exist for coherence (except in 100% simulators) it exist to have fun, play and be challenged. Also, i have to say that i agree in the idea of making coherence with the gameplay and history (like in clasic rpg's where all history was about gameplay elements, legendary weapons, magics, clases, or a central gameplay theme that its important to the history, like espers or materia from final fantasy)

I'm making a game that have a customitzed menu and a limited capacity of 15 to 30 items. I never do it for coherence, i thinked in a strategical idea for gameplay (limited inventory) and this is all. Also, i have in the same game a system based on objects that you can recolect, even hundreds of them. Yes, you have heard it well, 25 general items and hundreds of recolection items... total incoherence, but fun, interesting and strategic. I dont need any more, i have been playing total incoherence all my life.

pd: sorry for my english,

RPG Maker Games V.S Commercial Games

I'm a hardcore fan of CRPG and i think there are a lot of rpgmaker games better than comercial ones.

In terms of history, at least in spanish scene, there are games like YSNE, Dhux and The Observer that have better storyline that a lot of comercial games.

In terms of gameplay, the thing its different. Most of the rpgmaker games are for storytelling and dont complain so much for the gameplay. But nowadays, any commercial game is for playing? if all of they are movies!. The difference is that they have a great team and can do the "generic" gameplay system with the custimotzation of the moment, but nothing like FFV, FFVII, SMT, SaGa, etc...

A lot of times i think that this "generic gameplay" is worse thant straightlevel up types. There aren't real strategy, the options only exisists to make the movie more interesting and make the history most assorted. Nothing more... too bad.

And thinking that you pay 60€ for a commercial game. Lol... play rpgmaker games, its better, and if the game is more direct with the gameplay, can be more fun. Like Dragon Fantasy, for example.

Also i think we can do a game that beat all of the commercial. The average rpg history its a piece of crap, really. The average gameplay, also. Now i'm making a game that its like FFV in some strategic terms. History i think its pretty good, i have making it for 8 years, and i'm writting all the game before starting . And im making totally original graphics. It's sure it can't beat Unlimited Saga(i leave this for my next project without rpgmaker), but it have some original things in gameplay that make it special.

In my experience, Making games=Playing games(a lot of them!!). If you play for the average history, view average manga/anime without complaining of the gameplay, your rpgmaker games will be very bad. More culture= Better history. And only if you are a real gamer, playing for challenge and strategy, you would make good gameplay.

This is what Brian Moriarty, creator of Loom and other great adventures, like Trinity of Wishbringer, says about it:

BM:Believe it or not, most of humanity's greatest ideas and stories are NOT available on DVD. It is very, very important that you turn off the game console and TV set every now and then and READ SOME BOOKS. Start with the great Homeric epics, learn about Beowulf and Gilgamesh, and study at least the greatest of Shakespeare's plays. Don't rely on Star Wars or The Matrix for your cultural education -- go to the original sources on which they're based.

Learn about subjects other than programming, such as science, mathematics, linguistics and history. Explore many kinds of music, dance, theater and other fine arts.

Find out why the Beatles are the greatest band ever. Don't waste too much time blogging, messaging or playing MMORPGs. Every hour you spend on your cultural education will pay real dividends when it comes time to create new stories and games.

Another important piece of advice: Design documents are your friends. You should not hire a single artist or musician, or invest ONE DIME on production until you have a written specification for your game that is so utterly comprehensive, so thoroughly detailed, the game could be successfully completed by total strangers if you dropped dead tomorrow.

Some designers are afraid that they will "lose control" somehow by committing themselves too much in advance. Nothing could be further from the truth. A complete design document is liberating! It is a contract between you, your production team and the money people, stating the MINIMUM amount of work it will take to make a fun, shippable product. It gives your investors confidence that you know what you're doing, and provides producers with the information they need to make schedules and allocate resources wisely. This leaves you the latitude YOU need to notice new opportunities, refine your ideas and IMPROVISE during development. Improvisation and experimentation are the really fun parts of making art. But you can't improvise freely if you're fixing basic design problems and deciding major story issues in the middle of production!

Always, always do the heavy lifting up front. I learned this the hard way.

I think the same.

What makes you play an RPG more than once?

Like any other games, i play crpg more than once to upgrade my skill level with it. I pass FFVII in solo/low level mode, FFVIII in low level, etc... also the history helps, but i love improving in gameplay.

CRPG aren't like mario, are very long, but also i play over and over to play better. When more strategic are CRPG more you would to "replay", i think. FFIV is a game i would play some times, but its too limited, you cant improve a lot, i like games like FFV, FFVII, etc... where the gameplay is more depth.

I know that many people think as videogames like movies of one use(specially the rpg with their storys and cg), but i think this is a casual view of the videogames.