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What Makes Stereotypical jRPGs Terrible?

Because the only interesting thing of modern JRPG is the Story, but this is a crap. Really. I like more an 8 bit RPG than the generic JRPG plot... at least i don't have to waste hours and hours in something horrible.

In the past i liked the Final Fantasy saga because it had an inteligent story, with a great occidental influence and not generic anime/jrpg. Others games, just for being the first of their time, can be forgiven: Chrono Trigger(original), Tales of Phantasia, etc... also i think in 32 bits the formula was Ok. And the gamplay was very important in these days.

But now JRPG totally sucks, because it have been maked 1000 times and is worse than 16-32 rpg's. There are a very few RPG i have trully liked the history... i think that the best genre for good historyis is adventure. I don't understand how people can play modern jrpg... i only "liked" Grandia 2(decent), FFX(mediocre) and others excepcionts that i have to give an oportunity, like SMT or SaGa.

Another important thing is the Nomura influence, now i can't stand any of these art.

The Importance of Planning

Complexity = Planning. Or a lot of more work and time to make it.
If you are using the default systems, other persons graphics, etc... RPG Maker can be pretty easy, and the planning can be reduced. But my project have his owns scripts, graphics, and systems. Also its originall, complex and depth.

Making a RPG is a titanical thing. Making a good one... lol. I can't waste two hours making something and then throw it because i changued something. If i had planned this, i only had to changue some text lines. Just compare.

If i have actually maked everything i have written and rewriten in my desing documents(200 pag or more) i needed like 5 years....
For example, now im making it with RPGXP. But time ago it was in 2k, then 2k3 for SMP and then back again to 2k. I don't used RGPXP because of the resolution(i like 16 bit feel) and that i didn't know ruby and programing very well. But now i can use XP at 100%, i make 16-bits feel graphics and i'm mastering RGSS.

I don't wasted any time in the old version. Just some testing maps, SMP short base and a intro. All was in my imagination and the design documents. Just think if i had started making it...

Also i don't think that planning ties you or something like this. You can improvitze, is the same... only that here you are writing your ideas, but this is equal to making the game, just changue the moment where you do the things.

Inspiration and Work Ethic

post=85649
I think that is a terrible way to get a project done. I don't know of any project that was ever completed that way.
Then i will be the first. Think that i want to make everything on my own, i just can't make any errors.

My last project had 200-300 pages of text, with 5 revisions in it... and only maked a little things, some tiles and a hability menu. Anyway... now that project is stoped.

My actual project have over 200 pag in total. . If i make a game in my mind or in paper, i can put all the ideas and improve them easily. Changing an element of a desing document is just a minute, but remaking it on RPG Maker will take hours or days... and maybe more.
In my last project, i have revamped completly the storilyne, characters, etc... if i had maked the game i had wasted a lot of time.

Inspiration and Work Ethic

post=75371
Well I don't know if this would help you but it helps me.

I have been working on my current game/project for several months and I haven't touched RPG Maker yet as I have been in word/notepad the whole time creating the story/items/monsters/stats you name. Then I went into MS Paint and started designing the characters/monsters/items/chipsets etc now all thats left to do is to piece it together on RM2k3

Try that out sometime and you wont have a folder full of half finished games but a folder full of word documents that even if you dont start the game you can use the ideas for later projects.

xDDDDDDDDDDDD. I do the same. Now i have write 600+ pag in diferent design documents, historys, etc... but only created a few things, now im making the engine for my main project with RGSS scripts...

RPGS... you've beaten

Played:

FFVII-9(Solos, low-level, all dead...)
FFVIII 5
FFIX -4
FFV-3
FFIV-3
FFVI-3
FFX-2
Grandia II
Chrono Trigger
Phantasy Star IV
Pokemon Yelow(3-4t... dozens at 100)
Pokemon Crystal
Lufia II
Shining Force

Not exactly rpg's but...
ALTTP(5-6)
LoZ: Adventure of Link
Alundra

Indie:
The Observer(2) (Erilex!xDDDD)
The Bad Guy(4)

Unbeatables:
Nethack

Playing:
Phantasy Star
Dragon Quest V
¿Tes III: Morrowind? Well, 3 years now, but it just dont work well with my actual computer...(fucking Vista)

Lost savegames/formated pc's:
Tales of Phantasia
Terranigma
EVO Search for Eden
The Legend of Zelda
Link's Awakening

Boring:
Grandia-FILLER...filler... too easy
Suikoden V-Where is the gameplay?
FFXII -Final Fantasy!? Too generic
FFX-2 -Story and challengue kills me, interesting combat system
Wild Arms 3 -Generic and boring...nothing special
Rogue galaxy -Filler, generic, bad gameplay and story...bff, 60€!
Ocarina of Time-Most overrated game ever... boring, easy and painful graphics

I like to play a few games a lot of times.

So, everyone, I have a question pertaining to your preffered play styles.

I like all, its only a mater of tastes. My actual game have 100% diferentiated characters, but they have some range to evolve and become more specialized(2 class changues for each).


But some of my favorite games like FFVII or FFV were oposed...

The RPG difficulty problem

I can't tell you why, is a matter of tastes. I like playing rpg in low levels and other challengues, and i love old school difficulty.

Just try playing like this, take your favorite RPG and play it without 20 levels.
But you have to changue your attitude, if your only objective is to view the next scene or animation, the gameplay will become a obstacle and you will hate it. You have to changue this mentality, and try to improve and think in every moment, looking for the challengue and personal reward.

I think its better to have a game where you can improve a lot and dominate every aspect of it. A lot of people play a lot of mindless games superficialy, but is not my stile.

Also, if you don't try to improve your skill in battle... ¿you like battles at all? ¿its fun for you? I think modern videogames gameplay is totally boring, and the fun comes from graphics, history or other factors. I'm not against it, but i think it will be perfect i we can improve the gameplay.

The RPG difficulty problem

They make the gameplay less linear, which is what you said you hated about FFX. I was pointing out that you were wrong to make that observation. The Sphere Grid is possibly the least linear character development system in any Final Fantasy game.

In FFV you have 20 jobs... less linear of what? In FFVII/VIII you can make any role, mages, defensives, etc.. linear, lol. Its the same. A game non-linear is like FFV, where a lot of jobs have equal options, or in a CRPG like TES...

Also, playing bad is playing bad.

At least you have the chance to screw up in FFX. Especially playing in expert mode where it is very easy to make the game much more difficult than it has to be by just making the wrong sphere-grid choices. This shows that your "casual balance" idea is silly; casual players can very easily screw their shit up. In FFVII the stats are set up so you cannot screw any character development up - you just need to put the grinding time in - so this again defeats your point.

I know people that in FFVII not havent more than 10 magic of every, or in FFVII they switched materia in every moment and get stuck. In FFVII and VIII with only level stats you dont do ANYTHING. Magic and habilitys are totally overpowered, and without it you wont win. They aren't perfect games, FFV is so better, but they have a lot of more penalitzation than X. In X you can fail every moment with the sphere grid, because you have eternal options later and a ridiculous challengue.

You can see all the character development in Diablo II as well - does that make Diablo II's character system linear? Of course not. Being able to see the grid allows you to plan ahead and develop your characters exactly how you want them to be developed - how is total development freedom linear..?

Think in this, looking at the entire table is like playing any other FF with a complete walktrough. Using the Diablo II example is not fair, because it may have other gameplay or expecctatives.
FFX has a lot of less penalitzation and depth than other games... is like the minimap, we have a game with no dungeons at all and the simpler exploration of the saga, ¡¡¡and they gave us a minimap????

Different enemies can't even be hit by some of the characters on your team. Knowing what you are doing when you come across a certain enemy type is where the depth in FFX's battle-system comes into play. You need to know who you have developed to be effective in doing x and play to your strengths. This might not be particularly important in your normal monster battles, but there are some tough boss fights in FFX and the Dark Aeons are definately nothing to laugh about. I had less trouble killing the Weapons in FFVII because LOLOLKOTR

This not make the game better, in my opinion it make totally linear and predictable. The enemy pattern for this is totally simple, then with 4 elements all the combats became the same. Boring. Also, in every game this exists, and you can pass the game without doing nothing of this.

Also, this is a just a other piece of filler for the casual...

The secret bosses are EXTRAS, im bored that people only can talk about that to defend FFX. In every other game are SECUNDARY. Im talking about the main quest, not a bad pokemon copy...

Also, ¿you played FFVII with walktrough?I dont know anybody that took the KOTR before fighting weapons a lot of times. Even in this moment, mime and KOTR are not a simple combination without help or experiencie.

I think FFX have 0 intensity, is only to kill and waste time. 200h of repetitive and mindless combat and mechanics arent for me a sign of good gameplay, it think is better the old style... Example: FFV ozma: direct, intense and FUN! You can destroy it in every replay, and improve your skill.

The RPG difficulty problem

Fixed clases/Flexible clases is only a PERSONAL option, it not make it better by itself. Is only about styles.

Also if i talked about FFX is for their "freedom". I say... freedom of being stupid. If you want to make Lulu a warrior you loose her inital states, the turbo influence, and a lot of more things. This is not freedom, is playing bad, is what i was saying as casual balance. You can play FFVII with all the materia in level 1, or put only magic materias in a character and quit his weapon. Then you have a totally inefficiente mage. ¿This is freedom?

The sphere grid is one of the more overrated things. Totally linear, also you see all tha table in the begining. ¿Nobody remeber when in FFV you havent a clue of how the jobs will evolve? Any other FF have a lot of more penalitzation.

FFX has everything. You can use 8 characters in battles. See the order. Change their equimpent. Sphere grid. Equipment system were you can do anything... etc,etc, but, its only FILLER for the casual player. For example, in a game like FFV having an armor that protects of an element was a totally limited and specialited strategic option. in FFX, you can make everything, make any defense or atack relations.But the truth is that this decisions count a lot less than in FFV.

With totally flexible and cheap equipment... chaning weapons in real-time, adapating with the others characters. The game will have to be 1000000 times harder to have any real depth. But as i said, the inbalance is not only about challengue, the FFX actual system is crap with or without it.

The RPG difficulty problem

You can't make a casual rpg fun for skilled players, this is the reason that i dont have any modern rpg and i play only clasical games. Now im playing the original Phantasy Star for de SMS and Dragon Quest V.

The dificulty levels are a good choice, really. Also i think there are other reasons than dificulty that make a skilled player get boring.

For example, a casual rpg like FFX, its not only that the game has a poor challengue, is that it have totally linear, predictable and accesible gameplay.
You can't compare it to the Job or materia system depth, is true the game have interesing hability and equipment system, but overall is aimed for casual players: the "complexity" and flexibility is not there for skilled master it, its only purpose is to make the play-movie varied and spectacular.

If a skilled player want to play FFX like he played other FF, he will bored, totally unbalanced, simplified and cheap knwoledge curve. And without a clasical dungeon, every combat its only fillers to level up, no general objectives anymore.

To sum up, its not only about challengue, a lot of games include a difficulty selecetor but their gameplay is poor and boring. Playing FFX or FFXII with more challengue will not be fun either.

You have to aim to one or another player in gameplay terms. But i think that in indie scene, were casuals will not dowload your game, this is obvious.