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I'm a multifaceted content creator with too many things to do. I have a Let's Play channel on YouTube and Rumble for indie games, DDLC mods, and SMBX episodes. I put my webcomics/reviews on ComicFury and my artwork on deviantArt.
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Map Making 101
author=Neophyte link=topic=2412.msg43157#msg43157 date=1226449740Agreed, big time. It's definitely a beautiful map, but I wouldn't want to be the guy trying to find my way through it. As for my map-making method, well, that's what I'm here to improve. I've heard mixed reviews about my maps, and it seems like half are great and half are crap. Then again, I only have about 10 opinions to go off of (if that!). So, I think I'd better see what else I can learn before I try being the teacher myself.
For me, I personally do not like maps like the one blind posted. You can't tell what's a clear path and what isn't. The forest looks beautiful in a screenshot, but it looks hard to navigate through. It mainly has to do with the clutter on the road. To me, a clear path is always more important than making something pretty.
Map Making 101
Hmm...those first few steps are the same ones I usually take. I haven't had any complicated indoor areas yet in my RPGs (except caves, but those are natural areas). My approach for my current houses seems a bit simple by comparison, though. The only thing I can really say is, how much is too much? Your map looks good, but doesn't it seem awfully busy? There's a lot to look at in there.
Map Making 101
Okay, I wasn't quite sure what you meant. Your question was rather vague...how 'bout some parameters?
We're looking at a 75x75 flatland forest where snowfall is constant. It's a place where enemies live (hence, a dungeon by my definition). We have different types of trees/shrubs for obstacles, as well as varying blocks of ice. We also have snow for the ground, and some icier patches here and there. The goal is to make the walk through the map not frustratingly dull. How would a good map like this be set up to make adequate use of the space and enemy encounters without becoming boring or tedious?
Sorry if that's too specific, I'm trying to find something out here.
We're looking at a 75x75 flatland forest where snowfall is constant. It's a place where enemies live (hence, a dungeon by my definition). We have different types of trees/shrubs for obstacles, as well as varying blocks of ice. We also have snow for the ground, and some icier patches here and there. The goal is to make the walk through the map not frustratingly dull. How would a good map like this be set up to make adequate use of the space and enemy encounters without becoming boring or tedious?
Sorry if that's too specific, I'm trying to find something out here.
Map Making 101
author=Neophyte link=topic=2412.msg42946#msg42946 date=1226380865I'll bite! What would you do for a snowy forest dungeon?
Do you guys want an example or not? Tell me what it is (wilderness, town, inner) and I'll help you out.
Code Monkey's Podcast Release and Discussion
author=Asalieri link=topic=2406.msg42827#msg42827 date=1226364898All things I definitely have ideas on how to fix (now that I know they're problems!). Also, I didn't mean to come off like I'm unwilling to change, because I most certainly do want my games to improve and be enjoyable for people to play. I'm just in something of a tight spot with this particular game, but I'm still willing to move things around within the realm of logical consistency (read above, house/tree issue).
Hali: Bottom line, you need to keep your player interested. Bad mapping is something that will quickly turn your players off. Your town is downright un-navegable. The forest was not DIFFICULT, it was just ungodly long. There's a difference between "oh it was just too hard" and "it was too BORING and long to go through again".
I appreciate your feedback, and I'm glad you tried it out! I honestly wasn't aware of the troubles you came across, because I almost never get feedback on the things I put out. It's tough to foresee these kinds of issues, but there's only one way to get better at it; and you've helped me do that. So, thank you very much, all three of you. You've already done more for me than most would. :)
Award the Previous Poster
Code Monkey's Podcast Release and Discussion
author=NoblemanNick link=topic=2406.msg42790#msg42790 date=1226350432O...kay...?
Hali we might probably going to have a Pokemon Hunter special that was a conversation we cut out of the podcast, the intro was the best when we made fun of the south.
author=Max McGee link=topic=2406.msg42769#msg42769 date=1226345783Good advice, I try to do all that stuff. I don't know how many of my mapping complaints are due to my old skill level/map layouts, but this is the kind of advice I look for nonetheless. Thank you, Max.
1. Avoid wide open spaces. Alternatively, avoid clutter.
2. Avoid squares, rectangles, and straight lines in nature. Natural areas shouldn't look planned.
3. Likewise, manmade areas shouldn't look random.
4. Layering looks pretty; this is an advanced technique can easily go wrong but, in general, the more things you have in front of/on top of other things, the shinier your map will be.
Code Monkey's Podcast Release and Discussion
Yeah, I know the importance of first impressions. I also plan on fixing the problems that have stopped people from impeding further into my demo. I'm not disregarding their criticism, I'm just not taking it all to heart, either.
I only say I won't fix my old maps because that's the very reason I can't: they're old. If I changed them now, they would be inconsistent with the previous game, and last I checked, trees don't randomly move around in a forest.
However, the big problem with my forest at the moment was the new stuff I added around the trees. I cluttered things up too much, and it became too confusing to navigate. So, I'm knocking out a lot of the new obstacles and making the path more obvious.
As for the rest of the maps, I don't know what I can do for them. They say "my mapping sucks" but they don't give any examples of what I could do better. It's no use to me when someone says "Your terrible, do a better job!" And, once again, I'm limited in the number of things I can correct. If something is logically alterable since the first game, I can fix it in this one. But, other than that, I'm stuck with the locations of things like houses and trees.
I only say I won't fix my old maps because that's the very reason I can't: they're old. If I changed them now, they would be inconsistent with the previous game, and last I checked, trees don't randomly move around in a forest.
However, the big problem with my forest at the moment was the new stuff I added around the trees. I cluttered things up too much, and it became too confusing to navigate. So, I'm knocking out a lot of the new obstacles and making the path more obvious.
As for the rest of the maps, I don't know what I can do for them. They say "my mapping sucks" but they don't give any examples of what I could do better. It's no use to me when someone says "Your terrible, do a better job!" And, once again, I'm limited in the number of things I can correct. If something is logically alterable since the first game, I can fix it in this one. But, other than that, I'm stuck with the locations of things like houses and trees.
:The Game Making Drive/Blog Topic
I missed my usual update, but that's because I had too much homework to worry about. With the semester winding down, I can't find the time to work on much else. Hopefully better news next week!
Code Monkey's Podcast Release and Discussion
Well, I can't say you weren't fair. Based on what you played, I don't blame you for hating it. The forest maze was way too hard, and the enemies running away stops in the morning. The whole purpose of the initial area was to give the player a chance to experiment with things a little and get a feel for how the game plays without any serious consequences. Also, if you do manage to KO any of the Pokemon before they run, they have about a 50/50 chance of dropping items. I don't know what to say about the mapping, except that this game takes place in the same area as the first, so some of my old inadequacies have carried through. As for disliking the music, well, that's a tough call. You may have felt the choices were bad, but I don't personally see the problem with them (beyond overuse from other games).
There's a lot more to it than what you guys saw, and it's too bad you were so frustrated that you stopped playing before the game could really get started. I think you'll have a much better time with the first one, Asalieri, because, since its first release, I've gone back and fixed most of the stuff that made it crappy.
So, the thing is, the intro of PH4 is not a good representative of what the entire series is like, and since you all got such a limited glimpse of it due to my excessively difficult forest maze, it's hard for me to believe you'd have the same opinion if you hadn't quit. I'm not blaming you for quitting, and you're right about what little you played of it, but there's simply a lot of stuff you didn't get to see.
There's a lot more to it than what you guys saw, and it's too bad you were so frustrated that you stopped playing before the game could really get started. I think you'll have a much better time with the first one, Asalieri, because, since its first release, I've gone back and fixed most of the stuff that made it crappy.
So, the thing is, the intro of PH4 is not a good representative of what the entire series is like, and since you all got such a limited glimpse of it due to my excessively difficult forest maze, it's hard for me to believe you'd have the same opinion if you hadn't quit. I'm not blaming you for quitting, and you're right about what little you played of it, but there's simply a lot of stuff you didn't get to see.
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