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Turn-Based...dead?

author=Ginseng_Tea
author=prexus
Every type of system has its place. An MMO does not benefit from turn based play. Can you imagine a late game encounter, 40 players taking on one big boss, having to wait for each person to take their turn?
Endgame content doesn't have to include a ridiculously large number of players. I've always found WoW's epic boss battles to be ridiculous as it's not test of individual strength, but a test in levels and headcount. A difficult endgame boss battle with, say, ten people is viable.

Mabinogi has a limited number of people that can enter a dungeon. This really forces you and your friends to put your heads together to defeat a big boss. This was also done to a decent effect in Fairyland. (5 people, 5 pet limit, if I remember correctly)
At any rate, 40 people turn-based can work seamlessly. The animation may be hectic, but if you follow this process:
-Players/Enemies choose attacks. There is a time limit which becomes shorter as more player/enemies are ready and have made their moves.
-Players and enemies begin the attacking phase. Players with higher agility go first and so forth. If done correctly, everybody would be done with their attacks easily in less than 3 seconds. (Like in Fairyland)

This model shortens downtime like nobody's business, and offers a reasonable amount of turnbasedness. The issue that persists with such large numbers is the inability to predict the outcome each turn. In a 40x40 setup, could you imagine having to guess who would be spiked to death next? Now that I think about it, an action-based MMORPG faces the same issue in its own way.

Also, an MMORPG can easily utilize the ATB style. (Although Squeenix owns ATB, I heard)

Aside: An earlier post in this thread suggested that AGILITY is the most important stat in a turn-based game. It's nothing that can't be tweaked. Also, by pumping AGI to get that first turn, you do miss out on more important stats. So, I don't believe it to be much more imbalanced than AGI or SPEED in most other games. In a more action-based model, speed may directly affect your DPS and also take you out of battle just as things get hairy.


WoW has user restrictions for end-game content as well. They balance the fights around you having the maximum number of people there at maximum level. (10 and 25 players respectively)

Yes, if you balance the fights around 3-4 people, turn based can work. But then it isn't really MMO, is it? It's more like, Some Multiplayer Online.

Turn-Based...dead?

Final Fantasy 14 is a big mistake regardless of what system you put into it. Although I assume you meant to talk about FF15, since FF14 is an MMO.

Turn based systems work if the goal is for the players to think about every move they make, as if it were their last. In a situation where effects aren't random at all, turn based combat almost becomes puzzle combat.

Every type of system has its place. An MMO does not benefit from turn based play. Can you imagine a late game encounter, 40 players taking on one big boss, having to wait for each person to take their turn?

EDIT: ToonTown by Disney Interactive is just about the only successful turn based MMO I know of, and the combat worked because it limited your party to three or four, and it was more about the hilarious animations than difficulty.

Whatchu Workin' On? Tell us!

hence why I noted that they were easier :<<<

Whatchu Workin' On? Tell us!

rm2k/3 doesn't have the best graphics because of how it is limited (320x240 resolution, no alpha channel, etc.) but has the most graphics by far. Both by being the oldest (and thus most time to make graphics in the proper format) and because the style is a lot simpler, custom graphics are much easier.

What is the Biggest Design Flaw in Games?

Fights like that can work amazingly in a fantasy RPG though.

Hero A encounters Draco the Dragon

Hero A fights Draco the Dragon for 5 turns

based on how much damage was dealt, Draco reacts a specific way, but runs away,

Hero A chases Draco, encounters a few other bad guys, corners Draco in a cavern

Hero A fights Draco for 10 turns

based on how much total damage Draco has taken, he reacts a specific way. Maybe at this point you could have killed him if you dealt enough, but if you didn't he flies up out of the cavern.

Hero A fights his way up the cavern paths, and finds Draco in his roost

Hero A fights Draco until he's dead

reward the player based on how it was done (extra piece of loot if he beat him early)

is coffee really the only way?

is coffee really the only way?

The only way to remove the bitter flavour from coffee is with adding salt. Sugar and Honey don't remove it, they mask it, and the bitter flavour can still be tasted. I would suggest saline solution over granular salt, though; as granular salt takes quite a bit to get it to dissolve in coffee. You can buy 'Liquid Salt' (saline solution) in grocery stores in the baking aisle. It just takes a bit of testing to figure out how much needs to actually go in. (saline solution is very diluted so you will need more than a little bit but try it ~half a teaspoon at a time.)

edit oh you were talking about yerba mate.

yerba mate removes social inhibitors in a similar way to alcohol (only without the drunk effect) and is a viable treatment for people suffering with anti-social behaviour.

Random Number Generation: The death of the Critical Hit

As what other people have said,

Random chance is annoying when you have no effect on it. If you have a base chance to miss, with no way of removing or modifying it, you get the sense that any of your attacks could just randomly be useless.

What I like is the D&D approach, where you build your character in a specific way. If you are building a combat oriented character, you get to decide how much +hit is enough +hit while still balancing your other stats.

こんにちわ。I am Hostile fun.

Welcome o/ !

is coffee really the only way?

Green Tea isn't much of a substitute. Yeah, it's refreshing and warms your belly nicely, but it doesn't offer much in the way of caffeine. Also, it's no more natural than coffee.