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Placebo Love
A lonely office worker is guided by a silent Muse to solve the mystery behind his two Doppelganger Soulmates.
A lonely office worker is guided by a silent Muse to solve the mystery behind his two Doppelganger Soulmates.
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Exeunt Omnes
Dude, how cool is it that you got the Humble Bundle recognition!? When I saw the name over Tam's head I got pretty excited. Great work!
EDIT: It was apparently Oxfeld.
EDIT: It was apparently Oxfeld.
Halloween Bash
Excellent game! So much fun!
I have nothing but good thoughts about Halloween Flop, so playing this addition to the universe was a no-brainer. I wasn't at all disappointed, even though I typically don't like prequels.
I'm not going to gush about it just yet. I don't want to lose steam. Hopefully I'll be able to pop up a review with all of my <3's and lulz.
Great work, everyone!
I have nothing but good thoughts about Halloween Flop, so playing this addition to the universe was a no-brainer. I wasn't at all disappointed, even though I typically don't like prequels.
I'm not going to gush about it just yet. I don't want to lose steam. Hopefully I'll be able to pop up a review with all of my <3's and lulz.
Great work, everyone!
Tess
Fundamental RPGology Thread
author=Treason89
What if WE do? I've seen sparks of collaborative projects here, and I think that the most valuable product we could produce, as a group of people disscusing about RPGology stuff, is an actual game with our ideas working for good.
That'd be a lot of work, and would require more than just the interests of the people in this battle design thing.
Although it might be a good exercise to take existing games and try to craft better battle systems for them. Using the example of FFIX again, Trance was a part of the story, but it was awful in gameplay. I'm certain there's a better way to make an engaging battle system that also utilized Trance better.
But for the sake of an RM community, we could find certain RM projects that had a lot of great wold-building, plot, and assets, but a lackluster battle system. Then we could ask permission to try out new ideas. This would get to the heart of battle design much better, if you ask me. We could incorporate all of the ideas that we've discussed as needed while also considering the world of the game before making decisions.
M.O.G. Music
A lot of neat MIDI songs are being made here! :)
I'm not sure if any of you said you were able to access FL Studios or not, legally or otherwise, but if any of you have it and would like some pointers, I can help out there. It's the program I use the most.
For pieces made primarily in piano, like Zoviet's "LAMBASTA," if you can play it on a keyboard with MIDI capabilities and can connect it to your computer via USB, FL Studios (and most other programs) can take that raw data as MIDI and allow you the freedom to readjust mistakes. Even if you're not a perfect pianist/keyboardist, but you have an idea that can be fiddled with on the keyboard, you can make a MIDI of your song and correct pauses, accidental notes, and even velocity.
Another thing I noticed is that these songs sound good as WAVs or otherwise, but it's not a bad idea to make an OGG version of them as well. More than likely, OGGs will be used in RM projects (because they're much smaller), and if someone else turns your WAV into an OGG it might make a mess of some of the sounds. If you have the extra time, you should make a set of OGG versions so that you know how it sounds once the size has been compressed for practical game use. :)
I'm not sure if any of you said you were able to access FL Studios or not, legally or otherwise, but if any of you have it and would like some pointers, I can help out there. It's the program I use the most.
For pieces made primarily in piano, like Zoviet's "LAMBASTA," if you can play it on a keyboard with MIDI capabilities and can connect it to your computer via USB, FL Studios (and most other programs) can take that raw data as MIDI and allow you the freedom to readjust mistakes. Even if you're not a perfect pianist/keyboardist, but you have an idea that can be fiddled with on the keyboard, you can make a MIDI of your song and correct pauses, accidental notes, and even velocity.
Another thing I noticed is that these songs sound good as WAVs or otherwise, but it's not a bad idea to make an OGG version of them as well. More than likely, OGGs will be used in RM projects (because they're much smaller), and if someone else turns your WAV into an OGG it might make a mess of some of the sounds. If you have the extra time, you should make a set of OGG versions so that you know how it sounds once the size has been compressed for practical game use. :)
Fundamental RPGology Thread
This is all some interesting stuff!
I think it's a weird deviation (a good one) that instead of determining how to design a battle system in which we have all of the elements we've discussed beforehand, we're instead designing a system in which we can all design a battle. XD I think the problem with this setup is that we, as designers, have fun designing, and now we're gearing towards developing a Battle Engine game rather than a Battle System. Although I really like the looks of these ideas.
When Never Silent first brought up rule altering, I was thinking of games like Small World (board game) or Smash Bros.
In Small World, a kind of boring game, the rules of your turn are based on one set of rules every time. But you have an Adjective-Noun pair you represent, like Hill Giant or Hill Triton or Angry Dragonrider. Each Adjective and each Noun has a property that defies the main ruleset of the game. So everyone plays the same set of actions, except their pair allows them to cheat.
In the Smash Bros. example, it's a little more basic. Every character is based off of Mario with a few slight deviations. It's almost like Mario is the rule, and when you learn to play as him, you can then play as anyone. Except other people take the rules of Mario and break them a bit.
None of that has any bearing on what you're doing right now, though. XD
@Hasvers: I played the Chimera Battle System a few days ago! I really couldn't see what was happening, but I kind of liked the ideas in it. I got to a point where Yellow and Red crystal were at a stalemate, I think.
One thing I think we're overlooking is an aspect of RPG battles that I've only brought up to Hasvers in the dark recesses of the PM Universe. To make these battles actually for RPGs, we have to consider the role-playing. That is, part of a good RPG Battle is themeing, and how it fits into the rest of the game. This entire contest ignored that.
If we were making board games, this would be fine, because we could make a great system and then cover it with the best theme. But RPGs typically rely on the confrontation system to enhance the narrative and the world. It's a big piece that isn't being considered. Without it, I don't really see this as RPGology so much as Confrontation System-ology. It might seem like a minor point to some people, but the difference between an awesome RPG battle and an awesome confrontation system is the difference between FFIX's battle system and FFIX's Tetra Masters. Both are good, but only one is a roleplay-enhancing system while the other is just a cool system that happens to be in an RPG. (EX: The fight between Zidane and Kuja is a narrative necessity, made more dramatic by the player's involvement in the battle system, and wouldn't be very good if they played Tetra Masters instead.)
This is just another point to consider. It's cool to make rule ideas where you can have fire arrows and healing swords, but this confrontation system wouldn't work in Mass Effect or Wild Arms as well. And if we leave the objects and names open to be changed once it's plugged into a world, then we create a sort of MacGuffin-based battle, rather than one that organically pulls from the RPG.
I think it's a weird deviation (a good one) that instead of determining how to design a battle system in which we have all of the elements we've discussed beforehand, we're instead designing a system in which we can all design a battle. XD I think the problem with this setup is that we, as designers, have fun designing, and now we're gearing towards developing a Battle Engine game rather than a Battle System. Although I really like the looks of these ideas.
When Never Silent first brought up rule altering, I was thinking of games like Small World (board game) or Smash Bros.
In Small World, a kind of boring game, the rules of your turn are based on one set of rules every time. But you have an Adjective-Noun pair you represent, like Hill Giant or Hill Triton or Angry Dragonrider. Each Adjective and each Noun has a property that defies the main ruleset of the game. So everyone plays the same set of actions, except their pair allows them to cheat.
In the Smash Bros. example, it's a little more basic. Every character is based off of Mario with a few slight deviations. It's almost like Mario is the rule, and when you learn to play as him, you can then play as anyone. Except other people take the rules of Mario and break them a bit.
None of that has any bearing on what you're doing right now, though. XD
@Hasvers: I played the Chimera Battle System a few days ago! I really couldn't see what was happening, but I kind of liked the ideas in it. I got to a point where Yellow and Red crystal were at a stalemate, I think.
One thing I think we're overlooking is an aspect of RPG battles that I've only brought up to Hasvers in the dark recesses of the PM Universe. To make these battles actually for RPGs, we have to consider the role-playing. That is, part of a good RPG Battle is themeing, and how it fits into the rest of the game. This entire contest ignored that.
If we were making board games, this would be fine, because we could make a great system and then cover it with the best theme. But RPGs typically rely on the confrontation system to enhance the narrative and the world. It's a big piece that isn't being considered. Without it, I don't really see this as RPGology so much as Confrontation System-ology. It might seem like a minor point to some people, but the difference between an awesome RPG battle and an awesome confrontation system is the difference between FFIX's battle system and FFIX's Tetra Masters. Both are good, but only one is a roleplay-enhancing system while the other is just a cool system that happens to be in an RPG. (EX: The fight between Zidane and Kuja is a narrative necessity, made more dramatic by the player's involvement in the battle system, and wouldn't be very good if they played Tetra Masters instead.)
This is just another point to consider. It's cool to make rule ideas where you can have fire arrows and healing swords, but this confrontation system wouldn't work in Mass Effect or Wild Arms as well. And if we leave the objects and names open to be changed once it's plugged into a world, then we create a sort of MacGuffin-based battle, rather than one that organically pulls from the RPG.
Fundamental RPGology Thread
author=azalathemad
Does it get any better after Chapter 5? I found the new city with the grenade shop, which opens up some things, but the game still feels like a tedious one-trick pony.
The ability to move your gun around on the grid, a well as getting new guns opens things up a tad, but you're really hitting the main evil of the system on the head: The game's scope and the battle system's scope don't match up. Even if you love the system like I do, and appreciate some of the finer nuances in it, the playtime of the game exceeds the playlength of the system to a degree that it doesn't leave you wanting more. In fact, it makes you rush it near the end. So it isn't ever a bad system in my opinion. It's just that the game forces you to play it death.
It's also excellent battle system conversation fodder. Worth playing if you want to see some really interesting ideas being churned around.
SC_Screenshot_08.png
Fundamental RPGology Thread
author=azalathemad
I tend to play RPGs with unusual battle systems, like Valkyrie Profile, Last Remnant, Resonance of Fate, the entire Romancing Saga/Saga Frontier series...
I'm also a massive fan of Tri-Ace and Kawazu battle systems! RoF is killer.
I guess here are my notes. They may be a bit sloppy, so take care when reading!
Game 01A, 01B, and 01C
3xT by Treason89
QUICK SUMMARY
This game showcases three different systems but never tries to consolidate them. I would have liked to see all three systems come together, as if to teach us three ideas and grow a new, awesome system with all three. The DOT system is less like a new idea and more like a How To of some simple--albeit useful--battle design concepts. I love math, and seeing basic equations in action is great, but it hardly falls under unique or fun.
The tri-element system has more to offer. It starts in an often-used concept of three opposing elements, but it rids the spells of MP and instead pits their uses against each other in a clever way. I think if the three type of moves went beyond simple elemental damages, their strategic value could become immense. One element could dictate mobility, for example.
The lenses system is probably the most unique of them, but also the hardest to understand. Though when you get the concept, you completely get it. There doesn't seem to be much room for strategy, although the multiple layers of ON/OFF activity that Pry uses is somewhat strategic since if you want to polarize AND select a new enemy you may have to take two turns.
The most disappointing thing for me was that they all used ATB. I don't necessarily believe that ATB is bad, but it had no effect on battles other than to make it difficult to learn the systems that were being explored. The worst part is that the only battle that really touched on the topic of turns/time did so without much emphasis on the importance. You were supposed to beat a dragon in x amount of turns, but the ATB guage worked against that by striking the player when they were trying to think which command would be best.
Since none of the games connect their design ideas, I'm going to rate each of these as three separate entries: Seiken, Almadana, and Prysmatic.
3xT: Seiken
Originality (4/20pts): Not much new happening here.
Elegance (12/25pts): Basic, yet not confusing.
Clarity (16/20pts): What needed to be done was too clear.
Depth (2/25pts): As a concept for DOT, it held very little depth.
Bonus (5/10pts): I enjoyed it as a demonstration for DOT.
TOTAL: 39/100
3xT: Almadana
Originality (10/20pts): Took a classic concept and gave it some new functions.
Elegance (10/25pts): Text boxes with number updates aren't that stylish.
Clarity (13/20pts): More clear than not.
Depth (16/25pts): Currently not too deep, but the possibilities...!
Bonus (10/10pts): Heavy tilt for potential and favoritism.
TOTAL: 59/100
3xT: Prysmatic
Originality (15/20pts): The lens aspect was original, but every other aspect was not.
Elegance (10/25pts): The best part was the visual lens in the corner.
Clarity (3/20pts): Less clear than Pry's lenses.
Depth (8/25pts): Too much variation that leads to similar results.
Bonus (2/10pts): The use of light science needs more credit.
TOTAL: 38/100
3xT TOTAL: 136/300, 45/100
Game 02: Battle System Experiment
by caparo
QUICK SUMMARY
I had fun with this, but it felt a little convoluted. The many status effects linked nicely and thematically with move titles, but even when I executed a combo of Crippling the enemy and exploiting the bonus damage, I never felt like I actually got that bonus damage--at least not enough for me to feel satisfied in the maneuver. Eventually, the strategy of chaining moves together didn't seem to pay off much more than wildly plucking whichever move I felt like doing at the time. I think if the moves had a larger impact, and if they were introduced more gradually throughout the five battles, the system would feel better.
Originality (11/20pts): Locked skills and intermingling effects felt fresh-y.
Elegance (15/25pts): A lot of reading and not a lot of organization.
Clarity (15/20pts): Info overload, but the process was clear.
Depth (10/25pts): Not as much depth as it would appear.
Bonus (4/10pts): I think it hits RPG battle basics well.
TOTAL: 55/100
Game 03: Delusions of Duty
by AegixDrakan
QUICK SUMMARY
This game was fun and had a nice duelist vibe. The excess HP made it feel a bit over-inflated, but there's definitely a sort of intelligent math strategy that requires you to whittle away HP at a faster rate than your opponent. Most of the skills connected in a cool way, but this basic battle interface didn't help. Having the skills in a list was unintuitive and didn't help guide which moves I was picking for their own capabilities and which I was picking because it was available. Plus, forethought into unlocking other moves was abandoned a lot because I couldn't always see the connection in a more spatial way. However, the concept is good in itself. The single digit damage is easy to track and easy to understand. The layers of stances and feints and buffs and all of that are a bit too hard to see at a glance, though, and sometimes I found myself setting up a set of attacks that did 0 damage because I couldn't keep track of which buffs we each had.
Originality (10/20pts): Unlocking skills on the fly!
Elegance (13/25pts): Better setup recommended than a list.
Clarity (13/20pts): Couldn't understad the layers of buffs.
Depth (10/25pts): Somehwat came down to DOT only.
Bonus (5/10pts): I do like a one-on-one duel.
TOTAL: 51/100
Game 04: Oracle of Askigaga - Duel Test
by Marrend
QUICK SUMMARY
This is fun and effective, but that's because it has already been made. It's 100% Suikoden style. It kind of gets to the heart of battles with its style, though, but lacks any real strategy. Once you know what move is associated with each text line the battles are easy. Each phrase translates quickly into a command you should follow, and since you only have three commands, it's not a real problem.
Originality (0/20pts): I've played this exact system before.
Elegance (10/25pts): The system itself is inherently elegant.
Clarity (18/20pts): Very clear.
Depth (3/25pts): Depth ends at figuring out the prompts.
Bonus (2/10pts): The system was still made really well.
TOTAL: 33/100
Game 05: Karin's Battle System
by Karin's Soulkeeper
QUICK SUMMARY
All functions were relgated to skills, which is nice. It demonstartes something kind of basic about battles. However, a lot was resting on a pre-battle setup and post-battles stats. Furthermore, Waiting was a big function. You were required to wait a lot. To use skills you had to wait for them to show up. Especially with so few skills to choose from, each turn devolved into using whatever skill was ready at the time, or wait until one came. There wasn't much strategy beyond doing whatever the system allowed you to do in that moment. Even worse were the Master skills, which basically cleared the enemies for you just because you waited long enough.
Originality (3/20pts): Nothing especially groundbreaking.
Elegance (10/25pts): Too basic to be inelegant.
Clarity (14/20pts): Almost too clear. May as well be Press A.
Depth (3/25pts): Moves are handed to you.
Bonus (3/10pts): Moo.
TOTAL: 33/100
Game 06: Mace Blue Arena
by Cap_H
QUICK SUMMARY
I think this, in all of its frustration, actually simplifies the concept of "normal" RPG battles well. Really well. This is sort of the heart of battles. The problem is that it never builds it back up to anything interesting or strategic. I went from hating this entry to liking it fairly quickly. It may not be a good game, but the intentionally under-developed system really lays bare what a lot of RPG battles are comprised of. There is a lot of waiting involved, and without knowing your enemy Charges it is too hard to win (after Saracen). This works well as another demonstration of battle basics, although it never tells us how to make it better. (Added love for a game with a "Weapon Color" name).
Originality (2/20pts): Basics reborn.
Elegance (12/25pts): Elegance in moderation.
Clarity (15/20pts): Clear, but lacks opponent information.
Depth (5/25pts): The same basic strategy every time.
Bonus (10/10pts): Heart of Design Bonus!
TOTAL: 34/100
Game 07: Game(?)
by Azalathemad
QUICK SUMMARY
This game takes some concepts of certain moves and turns them into the characters. Furthermore, each move must be used. HP and MP are the same thing, and the fact that the healer must get hit when healing an ally means that her function is not infinite. This is a really clever concept. The idea to swap items as you hit is also great, since you must touch people in a way that is beneficial. Grabbing the Fantastic Sword is the only way to beat the Titan, and giving the Cursed sword to an enemy is a great idea. The Vampire can become a resting period if she attacks herself, and the Tank can become a resting period when hitting the Priestess (as well as recovering). The Healer can also rest by healing herself, which is like getting more MP if she's already harmed. You end up with a large supply of strategy, I think. Defeating the Titan becomes a real puzzle, and the variation of enemies could create a wonderful game. And the fact that enemies are reactionary rather than action-oriented is really new. Defeating the Titan is like picking a lock. I almost had him, but one strategic mistake made it so I didn't do enough damage in the fight and he healed back to max. By then I was running low on HP/MP.
Originality (17/20pts): A lot of concepts that are new to me.
Elegance (14/25pts): Better off not a text game.
Clarity (18/20pts): Understood before Round 1 was over.
Depth (18/25pts): Would falter if characters remain same.
Bonus (8/10pts): Very enjoyable!
TOTAL: 75/100
Game 08: The Campaign
by NeverSilent
QUICK SUMMARY
I like this system, and I think it has some great potential if worked on hardcore. The Attack/Support dynamic is a nice twist, and although it's not entirely new (Thousand Arms?) it has some fresh ideas. The rows change the role, but the columns also change which enemy is available to be struck. The best moves in my mind were ones that manipulated the positioning of the enemies or the players even further, although it still fell a bit short of the potential. The idea was there, though. Even if the game wasn't polished to a point where moving enemies was useful, I could see that that the creator had that intention. I never felt like the player positions held as much strategic value as they could have. Maybe it's because all of the characters had so many moves to choose from. I never felt like Swapping was vital for a victory, even if it was necessary in its way. More battle emphasis on position and less on the actual attacks/spells might be the best route.
Originality (14/20pts): Row/column importance.
Elegance (12/25pts): Somewhat clunky in parts.
Clarity (11/20pts): Takes a little to absorb.
Depth (12/25pts): The groundwork is there for it.
Bonus (5/10pts): Not buggy and potentially engaging.
TOTAL: 51/100
Game 09: Queen of the Ring
by rosesarecrimson
QUICK SUMMARY
I like the idea of each body part having a moveset, and even hitting enemy parts. Sort of reminds me of Vagrant Story. But I can't tell if any moves are worth doing, or how they compare to others. I also never know if I'm close or far from the enemy, or if they move to or from me. It seems like a lot is clear, but it really isn't. I never felt like I was making strategic decisions, nor did I feel like I was being told all of what I needed to know.
Originality (11/20pts): Body parts.
Elegance (8/25pts): Slimes don't even have body parts.
Clarity (7/20pts): Not clear what I could do.
Depth (10/25pts): It's possible there is further depth.
Bonus (1/10pts): I was never truly engaged.
TOTAL: 37/100
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Azalathemad: Game - 75
3xT: Almadana - 59
Caparo: Battle System Experiment - 55
ArgixDraken: Delusions of Duty - 51
NeverSilent: The Campaign - 51
3xT: Seiken - 39
3xT: Prismatic - 38
Rosesarecrimson: Queen of the Ring - 37
Cap_H: Mace Blue Arena - 34
Marrend: Oracle of Askigaga - 33
Karin Battle System - 33
Games - Tester
Games - Other
