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Race and Gender in Games
@emmych
I've gone through the comments on the 2 games that you have here on RMN and I can't find a single comment that could be said to be trying to correct anything gender related. There was one comment where the author was confused about what gender some characters was, which is not a negative comment. Maybe you did get that one message that you said you got, but who knows.
I also went through the first ten pages of Luxaren Allure before I got tired of it and I also can't find a single comment along the lines of "ugh this is WEIRD and so GAY i don't LIKE IT". Maaaaybe something that if you really interpret it however you want that could be along the lines of "YAY LESBIANS <3".
At least use examples that actually happened. Lying doesn't make for a very good discussion.
Edit: This is in response to the first answer emmych made to my post on last page.
I've gone through the comments on the 2 games that you have here on RMN and I can't find a single comment that could be said to be trying to correct anything gender related. There was one comment where the author was confused about what gender some characters was, which is not a negative comment. Maybe you did get that one message that you said you got, but who knows.
I also went through the first ten pages of Luxaren Allure before I got tired of it and I also can't find a single comment along the lines of "ugh this is WEIRD and so GAY i don't LIKE IT". Maaaaybe something that if you really interpret it however you want that could be along the lines of "YAY LESBIANS <3".
At least use examples that actually happened. Lying doesn't make for a very good discussion.
Edit: This is in response to the first answer emmych made to my post on last page.
Race and Gender in Games
author=LightningLord2That's not at all what he said and you intentionally misinterpret. You seem to have a very black and white view of these matters where one side is always super nice and the other acts like a bullied 12 year old finally getting the chance to take revenge.
What I'm having a problem with is kentona interpreting any form of criticism as a brutal insult to the person you're critisizing, rather than seeing the benefits of noting the negative parts of a writer's/programmer's/artist's/etc. work.
I don't think that's how it works. Both sides have their bad seeds.
Both sides fling shit and that's reality. Just because one side claims moral high-ground (which one that is changes from case to case) that doesn't mean they can't be assholes.
Race and Gender in Games
I would like to further discuss/give my opinion on social medias current problems.
When social media first started gaining traction, sometime during the early 00's, I remember everyone saying that it's the best thing ever, because now people will be able to talk to so many different kinds of people.
Looking at it now, I don't think that's how it turned out. Personally, I think it turned out almost the opposite, in fact. Sites like tumblr and twitter that allows you to select who you wish to listen to makes it so that you can ignore anyone with a differing opinion to yours. This makes it so that alot of people only use social media to talk to people that are very much like themselves.
It's a sad thing, because talking to people that have the same opinion on everything as yourself doesn't lead to a very healthy development.
And that's often what happens. Cue armies of people with very similar opinions.
Sometimes, it leads to positive changes, but more often, it leads to things not so positive. Stuff people would call downright psychotic, in fact. But since the people in the circle with the same opinion don't get any input from people with differing opinions, it just gets worse and worse. In fact a major reason that I still visit RMN forums nowadays, even though technically I haven't touched gam mak in a year, is because people here have very differing opinions to myself alot of the time.
To tie this into the current topic, I think both the extremes of this, that is both the opponents to LGBT+++ stuff being included in media and the worst from the other side don't get alot of input from people somewhere in-between those two extremes. The people that those two sides would in a very derogatory way would call "normal" people. And somehow, I doubt those two sides will ever find any common ground. Which leads us into the current situation, where people are afraid to include gay/trans/whatever people, because either of those two sides will bash you for it.
When social media first started gaining traction, sometime during the early 00's, I remember everyone saying that it's the best thing ever, because now people will be able to talk to so many different kinds of people.
Looking at it now, I don't think that's how it turned out. Personally, I think it turned out almost the opposite, in fact. Sites like tumblr and twitter that allows you to select who you wish to listen to makes it so that you can ignore anyone with a differing opinion to yours. This makes it so that alot of people only use social media to talk to people that are very much like themselves.
It's a sad thing, because talking to people that have the same opinion on everything as yourself doesn't lead to a very healthy development.
And that's often what happens. Cue armies of people with very similar opinions.
Sometimes, it leads to positive changes, but more often, it leads to things not so positive. Stuff people would call downright psychotic, in fact. But since the people in the circle with the same opinion don't get any input from people with differing opinions, it just gets worse and worse. In fact a major reason that I still visit RMN forums nowadays, even though technically I haven't touched gam mak in a year, is because people here have very differing opinions to myself alot of the time.
To tie this into the current topic, I think both the extremes of this, that is both the opponents to LGBT+++ stuff being included in media and the worst from the other side don't get alot of input from people somewhere in-between those two extremes. The people that those two sides would in a very derogatory way would call "normal" people. And somehow, I doubt those two sides will ever find any common ground. Which leads us into the current situation, where people are afraid to include gay/trans/whatever people, because either of those two sides will bash you for it.
Race and Gender in Games
author=LightningLord2It does happen. If nothing else, people perceive that it could happen, and the result is the same. Demanding more fap material happens but that doesn't exclude that the stuff I said also happens. I'm not sure what "removing tolerance" means.
Literally never happened. And never will because the hatemob will drive out any trans/gay/black/etc. person before they can say anything bad about the game. What does happen a lot is people flinging shit at game developers for cutting fap material and demand the removal of any kind of tolerance from games.
author=LightningLord2I know, white men are to blame for everything.
Also, the "racism against white people" crowd is like a guy taking seven slices of cake and getting angry at the chef for giving the eighth piece to someone else who's hungry. They ask "What about white people?" and "What about men?" when it's all about them already.
No really, I don't appreciate your racism, or your apparent dislike of men.
It also has nothing to do with what I said.
author=LightningLord2Alot of the time when someone says those things, they are not very friendly.
Lastly, most of the time when people call you out for being racist, misgendering someone and so on, it's that person trying to give helpful advice and kindly asking you to improve upon yourself. Saying they are "shit flinging" is wrong on a graham number of levels.
If you think that their opinion is wrong, some get very hostile(that's often what it is, opinion, without any right or wrong).
Race and Gender in Games
author=Crystalgateauthor=kentonaIf we assume that you're fully free to make the game you want, then presumable you're also free to give it the feedback you want. Of course, unrestricted feedback means the author her-/himself won't feel very unrestricted. Any variant of do what you want leads to contradictions because some will use that freedom to impede on other people's freedom.
Society: Make the game you want
Society: No. Not like that.
In truth, "make the game you want" just like "choose the job you want" and any other "do the X that you want" has always had the restriction of "but within reason". Of course, everyone has their own opinion of what falls within reason.
I think we have reached a point where critics have too much power to scare away people from trying to do new stuff, or including "taboo" subjects. It's like treading on hot coals to include a person that does not conform to the normal formula, or to have opinions that alot of people don't like in your game. Call me old fashioned, but I think social media in its current form is... not the best.
Race and Gender in Games
Another reflection that I have noted, maybe not here but on the internet in general.
Unpopular opinion incoming: If we assume it's true that certain races or LGBT people are underrepresented, I think part of the blame actually lies with the worst kind of SJWs. Lets say you make a game with a trans person, but an angry SJW doesn't like the way the person is being portrayed and decides that you are a bigot. You didn't mean any harm, and you thought you were being respectful.
The SJW gets his/her angry friends to fling shit at your game. Your reputation is ruined, without you having done more than put a trans person in your game. It's not the likeliest story there is, but it's a very real possibility, and I can guarantee you that alot of people think that this is a possibility unconsciously or consciously.
There is most likely at least one person that will be very vocal about you not portraying a group of people like they prefer on the internet. But since it's OK to fling shit at white males, and to some degree white females, that's alot easier to put into your game. Is it racism/sexism?
Unpopular opinion incoming: If we assume it's true that certain races or LGBT people are underrepresented, I think part of the blame actually lies with the worst kind of SJWs. Lets say you make a game with a trans person, but an angry SJW doesn't like the way the person is being portrayed and decides that you are a bigot. You didn't mean any harm, and you thought you were being respectful.
The SJW gets his/her angry friends to fling shit at your game. Your reputation is ruined, without you having done more than put a trans person in your game. It's not the likeliest story there is, but it's a very real possibility, and I can guarantee you that alot of people think that this is a possibility unconsciously or consciously.
There is most likely at least one person that will be very vocal about you not portraying a group of people like they prefer on the internet. But since it's OK to fling shit at white males, and to some degree white females, that's alot easier to put into your game. Is it racism/sexism?
Race and Gender in Games
Just because a character isn't exactly like you in every way that doesn't mean you can't identify with a character. It's not impossible to identify with a black character even if you're white.
I'm interested in why this forum is so focused on gender and matters concerning race, every thread concerning those topics gets 10+ pages.
I'm interested in why this forum is so focused on gender and matters concerning race, every thread concerning those topics gets 10+ pages.
[Poll] I HATE THE USERS
author=Aetherrevivalauthor=SnowOwlauthor=AetherrevivalI hate you and your entire bloodline.
We should rebel against hate!
A POX UPON YE, KNAVE! If thou shalt embrace hate, then thou shalt never knoweth laughter! EVERETH.
But remember: I only do this because I love you, and your little dog too~
There would be no comedy without the occasional tragedy, born of hate. Embrace the hate, for it leads to laughter.
Games - Tester
Games - Other
